The Crispin Colloquy

JesseLee,

This is possibly a conversation for the Curved Needle thread (admin?)

What's the issue you're having with your Junker? Is it having difficulty piercing your sole leather? Are you pre-cutting the channel in the sole?

Alasdair,

I have not cut a channel, just used 9oz oak tanned for the welt with about a 12 iron sole.

Cheers,

JesseLee

What needle plate are you using? If it's the one with the upturned lip you'll need to precut a channel. If it's not the one with the upturned lip it might not be designed for outsoling.

Both Junker & Pedersen made a machine to do this but they're like hen's teeth to find.

It does not have the upturned lip, its just flat. Great for boot side seams though. Bobbin winders are hard to find too. If I had a picture I could make one..

I have little to add to this conversation, except to say that if you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uQE51-FuZg

you will see at about 2:44 what (based on the foregoing discussion) would appear to be a Gritzner in use by St Crispin's Shoes. They are an Austrian/Romanian company making high-end MTM and RTW shoes. Perhaps they could point people toward a supplier of parts?

Lance

JesseLee,

The flat plate will work, but it's not the one designed for outsoling leather soled shoes.

What's the problem you're having with the machine?

I have a picture of a bobbin winder. I'll turn it into plans and put it in the "Curved Needle" thread. They're dead simple to make.

Lance,

Thanks for that video link, it's fun to watch. That's not a Gritzner though, it looks like a Rafflenbeul MS55, which is a hand cranked needle and awl machine. The Gritzner is a threaded needle machine.

I direly want a Rafflenbeul for the collection but I've never seen one [img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/sad.gif"%20ALT="sad[/img]

There's a picture of one here, from a chap in Germany whose collection of machines I'm terribly jealous of (even if my 29 is older than his)

http://sk-messer.de/ledernaemaschinen.htm

Alasdair,

Much obliged for the plans for the bobbin winder. I guess the only problem is that I'm getting shorter stitch length with the out-soling and its hard to keep consistent. Perhaps it needs a guide???

Cheers,

JesseLee

JesseLee,

I built myself an upturned plate for my Junker. I posted a description at SD-28 Junker & Ruh Plate Construction

I created the pattern from my other plate. If you want to make one and have any problems do not hesitate to ask.

Terry

Terry,

Thanks muchly. I'm right handy when it comes to making metal parts.

Cheers,

JesseLee

Hey Alasdair,
Roydon Power at Footcom in Petone has needles and probably the knives to.
I can't post a pic until tomorrow as my camera is at the shop.
The needles are a size but the thread is heavy too - Barbour's 18/6 cord, although Mine is currently running a waxed poly braid about 1.5mm.

Jesse the shoe or boot is sewn right way up and the knife cuts the sole on the ground surface.

best regards
Tomo

Thanks Tom, always interested in how these old gals work.

Cheers,

JesseLee

Is there a difference in the shoemaking hammers I keep seeing. I would like to get a good one but not sure what I'm looking at. I have one of the what I call a small claw hammers without the fork on the back. I've been looking at the what I've heard termed french style. Is it just personal preference?

thanks Mark

Here are some shoe/boot hammers, the one on the left is what is refer to as "French patten", The 2 in the middle refer to as "London Patten", the one on the right is sole attaching hammer and it should never touches nails or tacks and to stay bruise free surface.

of the french or london pattern which would be better? The sole attaching hammer is the one I have.

Sorry but I've always known the one on the right as a "shoemakers" hammer and Salaman lists the two in the middle as German pattern hammers.


The hammer on the right side of the pincer is a London pattern.

Between a French and German pattern there isn't much difference but London pattern has a very different and useful pane and the head is set at a different angle than the others.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Now that's question i wish i didn't have to answer here lest i get the English coming after me,I like my little French hammer,I wish i had the bigger size too,it is my upper making hammer and also a good lasting hammer,both end of the hammers are useful,one side for tacking/nailing and the other side i use for lasting by pushing the wrinkles around the feather in using the chine of the hammer,having said that my big London hammer been with me for a long time and will stay in use to the end.

Nasser

Thanks Jesse, Alasdair,
Here a some pics showing the stand, knife and wax pot. Alasdair I can't see a wax scraper but the pot still has liquid in it although I don't use it on the poly. It smells vaguely like disinfectant or something similar and has the viscosity of light oil, don't know it it's still good.
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More power to y'awl
Tomo
Sorry guys, it's been a while, I'll have to try later.

(Message edited by Tomo on January 11, 2011)

(Message edited by Tomo on January 11, 2011)

Mark

the difference between the French and English pattern hammers is the angle of the striking head in relation to the handle. The one DW calls a German pattern seems to be the same as the English pattern to me.

The three on the left of Nasser's photo I have always known as French pattern.

The major difference between French and English patterns is that the French pattern hammer is designed to be used sitting down and the English is designed to be used standing, hence the different angles of striking surfaces.

Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com

I think i opened a new can of worms by naming my hammers,from looking at Barnsley tool catalogue my two hammers in the middle resemble the German pattern than the London pattern,They came from a local boot/shoe maker of Ukrainian background who no longer has any use for them.

Nasser

Ok thanks everyone. Now where can I buy one of each. The French and the London pattern. Used would be nice.

Most of the time I will be sitting, but I can already see some advantages to the London pattern DW mentioned.

mark

Mark,

I think you've stumbled upon a subject that many of us are passionate about.

In Nasser's photo, the middle right hammer, I think it's been called a German style, is similar to what I use as my work horse. I last sitting down and find the angle is very comfortable. I bought mine about ten years ago and it was new (actually it has a German word printed into it)

I have a French hammer that I use for soles, like Nasser's it doesn't touch nails. I must say it makes contact at an odd angle, and I think it might be uncomfortable to hit nails with.

Jon

I understand. When I'm framing or doing construction. I have to have my 20oz. estwing hammer. No other will do. Its got balance and works good for me.

Now I just have to find a couple of these hammers.

I've found one one line looks like the french style but it has a tab that comes down part way on the handle with what looks like a pin thru it??

What the! Try again...






Best,
Tomo
Dunno what's going on, I keep getting an 'internal server" message

(Message edited by Tomo on January 11, 2011)

Tom,

Email 'em to me and I'll post them.

Which browser are you using?