sewing machines

[producthaus]

I am having sewing issues with my Artisan 5110 - sometimes the needle thread will break apart; once the tip of the needle broke off. The machine is new and worked fine when I received it, so I am sure it's how I am adjusting it and my lack of experience.

Is it imperative to hold the two threads lightly when making the first stitch?

What does it mean that the top thread is breaking?

I am not exactly sure how to tell if the tension is correct - I turn the nob to the left or right and the stitching looks the same. If I am sewing 3mm leather, and then overlap and sew two pieces for 6mm, would I have to adjust the tension in this scenario?

On another example, I was sewing fine for the first few inches, and then the needle thread broke I believe.

All sewing is done on ~3mm horween chromexcel.

[jask]

how does the bottom thread stitching look when this is happening?

[producthaus]

Here are top and bottom views of the stitching, red arrow shows where the break happened.

11672.jpg

11673.jpg

[sorrell]

Nick,

"Is it imperative to hold the two threads lightly when making the first stitch?"

Before you start stitching, bring your needle down and into your leather. Take hold of the top thread and pull it a little--just get all of the slack out. Then lift your roller wheel and sit it back down on the top thread that you're holding. Now you're ready to begin stitching. Pulling out the slack and tucking it under the roller wheel will prevent it from sucking under and making a knot. The roller wheel sits tightly on the leather and holds the thread so you don't have to worry about holding it when you're trying to start stitching.

Lisa

[dw]

Nick,

I can't really see it well enough in that photo but it the bottom stitching looks OK...no obvious pull-down of the top thread. correctly adjusted, the "lock" should be in the middle of the material that you are stitching. Sometimes this needs adjustment for thickness but not all that often. I seldom change tension moving between kangaroo--2 ounce--and 4 or even 6 ounce material.

So, I suspect that the breakage is related to something in the timing or perhaps a burr on the bobbin hook (which can be as the result of a broken needle).

Strange as it may seem it may even be related to the cement you used combined with the oils in the ChromeXcel.

Lisa's trick/cran is a good one. I don't think that holding the threads, no matter how you do it, is related to your problem, however. It is always wise to hold both threads for a stitch or two as you begin but your problem is several inches down the line. No connection.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[luckyduck]

Nick,
I had similar issues with my 5110 until I figured out to rotate the needle slightly.

The book says to have it aligned on the left-right axis. I rotated it a couple degrees counter clockwise and it cleared right up. So,imagine a second hand clock face laying flat on the table. Instead of the needle hole aligning exactly on the 15 and 45 seconds it is about at 14 and 44.

It was a several hours of frustration to get it just right. My old Tippmann likes the same treatment, so maybe it is how I sew.

Good luck and keep fussing with it. Trying a different needle may help, too.

Paul

[jask]

good point Paul. Nick, I wonder about your comment on the thread tension, if the tension is very high and the timing of the needle/hook is a little off it can cut the top thread. can you remove the cover plate in front of the bobbin carrier and observe the stitch being picked by the hook? THe picture you posted shows no sign of uneven tension or stitch dropping so I am inclined to think it is excessive tension or mechanical timing.
If your top tension is so high that backing it off a little makes no difference, I would assume that something is creating a lot of drag on the bottom. Going from 1 to 2 layers of the same leather should not make a difference... going from light lining leather to chrometan certainly might!
I worked with a fellow that used to start a bobbin by pulling the thread through the center hole and the tail it would leave was enough to play havoc with the bottom tension...he also had a habit of putting the bobbin in backwards and the inconsistent thread tension and surging was always causing rats nests and broken needles.
a quick way to check if the needle is too short for the timing is to sew into some thick stiff leather to the bottom of the stroke, stop , than loosen the needle screw and hand crank the needle carrier up about 1/64th while the leather "holds" the needle. Tighten things up and hand crank a few stitches -slowly- to check for mechanical interference before sewing a few lines. If this works you will either need to adjust the timing or source different needles.
hope all of this makes sense.

[producthaus]

Thanks for the replies, I will try them out tonight. Two other things to add:

I noticed there is a "grinding" feeling, while hand turning, when the needle reaches the bottom of its travel; this could be a bur on the bobbin hook?

Also, when I hand turn the first stitch, I notice that the tail end of the needle thread is being pulled back into the cover plate. I should be holding this part so that the thread is being pulled from the spool down into the cover plate, correct?

[tmattimore]

Grinding feelings are not good, with a machine that new it should feel as "smooth as a baby's bottom". Did you find the tip of the needle that broke? Check your hook for burrs or nicks. Does your post have an inspection plate? if so also look at your feed dog pivot in case something is stuck in there.

[chuck_deats]

I don't know anything about this, but if the tracks above the stitching in the lower picture are from the roller wheel, they seem excessive. Don't know if it has anything to do with it, but that much down pressure certainly puts extra strain and and distortion on the machine. Would not expect anything near that from the walking foot I use.
Chuck

[sorrell]

Chuck,
That's a good point. I have an Artisan 5110 also, and the first thing I had to do it after I got it was raise the wheel and lower the feed dogs. They were set so tightly together that I couldn't get much more than two layers of kangaroo between them. I'd forgotten about that until you mentioned it.

Lisa

[producthaus]

Thanks for the tip, I will try this. I did adjust the pressure of the roller wheel, but it was not making a difference, so it sounds like I have to physically move either as chuck and Lisa suggest.

[tjburr]

I thought I would post a little project I have been working on.

I have a Junker SD-28, but it did not come with a plate that has a channel guide. I have a friend that does blacksmithing and he has volunteered to help make a plate. I decided to attempt to make a prototype, prior to working with him on a more "final" version.

What I came out with might end up being fairly final.

I started out with a piece of aluminum sheet .064 inches thick.

I then made a pattern out of paper (center of image) and cut two pieces. I do not know if most people know what the plate looks like, but it is curved at the edges so that the center over the bobbin has more room for the thread to pass. For examples, look at the posts in the previous archive by Alisdair (thanks for the great pictures for me to work from). To achieve this I decided to cut two pieces and stack them. I used a scroll saw and cut out the top and bottom pieces (right and left parts of the image).

11848.jpg

I then used a dremal to smooth the edges on the inner piece so there would be no rough edges for the thread to get caught on. At this time I bent the little tab up on the top that rides in the channel. I then glued the two pieces together. I suspect this is the part that will not hold over time and may have to have my friend weld it or find a better glue.

11849.jpg

11850.jpg

and proceeded to smooth the outside edges (only somewhat since this was to be a prototype).

11851.jpg

I drilled a hole in the one corner and used a "connector" designed to a threaded tube obtained from the same hardware store as the aluminum and used a bolt to hold this in place. I used locktite so this would not turn. This is the post that holds the plate in place. Along with an area on the left side top that is cut out and fits against a pin.

11852.jpg

The end result fit well on the machine and I believe it will work well once I get some practice cutting the correct channel.

11853.jpg

End result $10 US + 1 hour work + trip to a hardware store. This left enough extra aluminum to make another 4 plates.

Terry

[paul]

Very Ingenious Terry!

That's what it takes sometimes. Good Job!

Paul

[chuck_deats]

Terry,
Excellent, Someone else has a hacksaw and file. Should work well. I was a little concerned about aluminum marking the leather, but it does not seem to be a problem. In any case, a coat of wax would fix it. Good work.
Chuck

[antons]

Hello Terry,

I have the same machine and the same problem. I like your job in aluminum, but the original is steel, isn't?

I would like to know whette the aluminum tab holds or not. Could you inform me?

My machine doesn't always pickup the threath. Could you post a macro picture of the alignment of the shuttle and the position of the needle?

Anton

[jesselee]

Terry,
Some super fine paper on the line finisher will polish that up nicely. Good job. I have the same machine and even using a #10 needle and # 7 Barbours linen cord run through Stellari's liquid wax in the pot, it won't sew a welted sole. Any tips? It seems as the needle does not carry to length and the stitches get smaller.

Cheers,

JesseLee

[amuckart]

Terry,

Nice job. I'll be interested in seeing how that goes over time. Aluminium is difficult stuff to glue but if the glue does give way you could drill holes through the plates, countersink them slightly and rivet the whole thing together with aluminium rod.

I'm in the process of moving cities still, but once my stuff is out of storage I can try working up some drawings of the original plate.

I'm trying to find somewhere that has a decent 3-d scanner so I can scan some of these parts with a view to uploading them to shapeways so folk can get investment waxes printed.

[amuckart]

Anton,

Yes, the original part is pressed steel.

If your machine isn't picking up the thread properly there are a couple of likely causes. The most likely is that the shuttle point is worn. On a new part the point of the shuttle is very sharp but it's not uncommon to find ones that have worn and blunted over time.

The other thing that might be the problem is the small plate at the front of the machine just under the needle plate which is sized to go with the needles. As far as I can tell this plate actually deflects the needle slightly towards the shuttle. There's one plate for #5 & 6 needles and a different one for #7 & 8 needles. If you use the wrong needle/plate combination it'll give you grief.

[amuckart]

JesseLee,

That sounds a lot like a problem I have with one of my SD-28s. I haven't fully debugged it yet but when I figure it out I'll let you know. One possibility is wear in the cam that pushes the needle bar sideways, but on mine I'm not 100% certain that it's returning all the way to the right at the top of the needle stroke.

Have you had your machine apart? I learned an awful lot about how they work by stripping mine down to it's component parts and reassembling it.

The man to talk to about these machines is Henry Veenhoven, who is a member on here. He has rebuilt lots of these and sells them. Last I spoke to him he was looking at getting parts like shuttles made.

I reckon things like needle plates, feet, and possibly even shuttles would be pretty easy to get shapeways to 3-d print in sintered stainless steel if the right 3-d models could be made in the first place. http://www.shapeways.com/materials/stainless_steel

[antons]

Alasdair,
Is it correct that the point of the shuttle should pass very near to the needle? Could I sharpen the point? The front plate is correct for the needle.
Anton

[tjburr]

Anton,

I will let you know how the aluminum does. I have only sewn a few test pieces, but it held up for that. My original intention was to build a prototype in aluminum and then build the final in steal.

I can post some alignment pictures and ones of the shuttle tomorrow.

Terry

[tjburr]

Jesse,

I have not sewn very much with this yet, but there are a few tips; some I greatly thank Al for in other locations on this site. I will identify what I try to do, but others might have better advice from more experience.

The first is a lesson I learned in using the plate with the tab. My other plate is flat and I did not have any feed problems; stitch length was good. So I knew my machine was good. When I first tried this plate, the tab was much more pronounced. So much so that it caused the tab to raise the leather a little off the plate. Basically the only contact point was the tab. In this situation the stitches are much shorter than they should be, sometimes to the point of almost being 0 stitch length. Once I made the tab a more reasonable height and provided a proper channel/flap such that the leather was riding on the plate, this worked much better.

So make sure the leather rides on the plate, NOT the tab!

Second: I followed Al's advice and wet the leather a little. This seems to help the stitching.

Third: Let the machine pull the work along, you can actually hold up the stitches or lengthen the stitches if you tend to hold the work tightly rather than supporting and guiding. This seems obvious, but as you guide things it is easy to apply a little pressure; it does not take much to change the stitch length on my machine.

I find a nice steady pace works best when stitching. If I hesitate a lot it does not work as well and sometimes messes up the quality of the stitches. If I try to go quick, I start getting loose stitches on the top thread when using the linen thread (not on the bonded thread). Going quick also makes it much harder to guide.

On my machine I also want to be very firm on the downward and upward strokes, making sure to make a full stroke of the handle. Even being off by a small fraction will cause stitch quality and length problems. I originally tried to come to a "gentle" stop at the end of the strokes, thinking this would be more "gentle" on the machine. This caused issues. I need to go all the way to a firm stop at the end of the downward and upward strokes on my machine.

I have used a #7 needle with #5 Barbours linen thread, and this seems to work good with the liquid wax on 10-12 oz soling leather. I did find that it helps to have a warmer day or warm the wax up just a little with a heat gun. Also if I let the thread sit and it gets stiff, I have to pull the stiff part of the thread through before starting to sew.

For what I was trying to do, the #7 needle was bigger than I wanted so I have started to use the #5 needle a little. The issue is the #5 thread is too big and so I have been test running with a Z-207 bonded thread that I had available, with no wax. This thread seems to work quite good, but I would prefer to use a slightly larger thread. I also like the look of the linen thread better. I hope to purchase a better thread soon.

Anton/Jesse:
I agree with Alasdair. Make sure that front plate is correct. Mine is actually reversible, one side for the smaller needles, one for the larger. See the drawings I posted in the archive 576-600 section of this section of the forum.

I also felt this plate would be easy to fabricate and can put up detailed dimensions, using a caliper, on this site if anyone wishes. It could be fabricated as a flat plate for the 5/6 and two plates welded together for the 7/8 needles.

Terry

[das]

Jesse et al,

Terry's steering you right here: the sole needs to be pretty damp/mellow (not soaking wet); the channel guide lip can retard the feed if the channel's not cut deep enough to allow the sole to actually ride flat on the needle plate as Terry described, but before shortening the guide/lip to below "factory specs", try cutting the channel (or groove) on the sole deeper first. My Junker works best with a deep vertical channel cut straight down into the sole, then pried wide open by wiggling a channel-opener through it, while wet. Afterwards this channel can be hammered closed to completely hide the threads; do not push, pull, or otherwise try to "help" the shoe feed, and smooth, positive hand-action on the operating lever is the key trick. Any hesitations, or interruptions in the forward and back hand rhythm causes all sorts of hiccups and feed problems. It may be helpful to always warm-up on some practice pieces of scrap before sticking the actual shoe in there. This will get the machine going smoothly after sitting dormant, etc., and get the operator over any hesitant hand-action. And be sure the machine is firmly bolted to a solid bench or stand. "The oil can is your Junker's best friend"--keep all oil points floating with oil (30 wt non-detergent motor oil).

As popular as this machine has become, thanks to the Forum, I'm trying to hunt down my spare one I restored and loaned to a friend in the late '80s, he never fell in love with. If I can find it, I'll pass it along here. Besides my "best" restored one, I have about 50% of another SD-28 as a parts machine. Who knew? When I bought mine in the UK in '83 they were just relics of the old Hippie sandal-makers, and $50-$75USD ea. complete in working order! I was lugging them home in my carry-on bag--I should have stock-piled them, with spare parts/needles so I could retire now at current prices *sigh*

Another fun antique sole-stitcher from circa 1890-1900 is the Frobana-Gritzner, which makes a much finer stitch even than the Junker & Ruh SD-28. I have one of these too, but it needs some parts (obsolete of course) to get it purring reliably. The Frobana's feed-dog (actually a feed-point) is a little chisel knife that cuts a vertical channel as it feeds the work along. Damn thing runs like a German clock mechanism--very precise, but it takes two complete turns of the hand-wheel to form one complete stitch, that is it's very slow going. Needles are non est as well it seems.

Interesting historical point here: these man-powered machines enjoyed a long popularity in the UK and Europe for many decades, as electricity was not as widely available there as in the US, nor as cheap when their "grids" were built. Hence you find all sorts of cool old machines in working order abroad. My favorite was a treadle-operated full-sized McKay chain-stitcher in the huge iron frame a la 1860s, still in use in a shoe repair shop in Inverness Scotland into the 1990s.

[tjburr]

Thanks Al for making the point about not modifying the "factory specs".

My difficulty was I was working off the pictures posted here and how well it worked. I would appreciate if anyone could make a rough measure of how far above the plate the tip of the guide sticks up.

I will also have to try the vertical channel. I have tried a channel cut at 45 degrees in the bottom of the sole as well as one starting from the edge of the sole.


I also wonder if I need to shape the guide a little differently. My guide has a side view shape like

11856.jpg

I had wondered if one of these shapes would work better.

11857.jpg

Can anyone describe the factory shape?

Terry