Thread

[dw]

@carsten

Here's a photo of how I sew the heel seat. The stitch itself is one variation--sometimes I do it so that it looks more like a standard 'shoemakers" stitch than this quasi-whip stitch, but the principle is the same.

As a bonus, it keeps the threads away from the edge of the heel seat and less likely to be damaged by subsequent pegs or nails, much less actually showing under the split lift. And if I do it as a shoemaker's stitch, I can keep the threads even further away from the outside edge of the heel seat, although there is a physical limit in that regard associated with how tight the radius of the awl is. As well as the fact that it get harder to push the awl through all the layers.

DSCF3137 (1280 x 1024).jpg

[nickb1]

@dw
Looks great. thanks, will definitely try this next time.
Nick

[nickb1]

@carsten

Here's a photo of how I sew the heel seat. The stitch itself is one variation--sometimes I do it so that it looks more like a standard 'shoemakers" stitch than this quasi-whip stitch, but the principle is the same.

this looks like the stitch that Hasluck recommends for a pegged seat / heel. Makes sense as more of the upper is left on as a flat surface where the horseshoe of pegs will go? I guess you don't want them coming through the border between the shank / shank cover, and the upper, lining & stiffener.

[carsten]

Looks great @dw.
When I started out I did not do any seam on the heel but used only pegs. Then I discovered that people also sew the heel and tried that too.

But to be honest, however, I don't yet quite understand why that heel seat seam is necessary or where the sense is in that.
I mean if the heel is lasted well, possibly whiped and one uses dense rows of pegs for the rand don't the pegs take over the purpose of that seam and make that seam thereby superfluous?

Feels like every post raises new questions :-) Sorry about that. I still find it amazing what depth of thought has gone into making shoes.

[dw]

@nickb1 It is a variation of the Hasluck. I kind of use the regular inseaming stitch (with deeply curved awl and no channel) and the Hasluck 'super-whip' interchangeably depending on what the temper of the leather is and my mood of the day.

[dw]

@carsten

Well, you may be right. But I've pegged a lot of boots and shoes and I'm near-as-nevermind certain that sewing the heel seat is a more secure technique, esp. when you consider that it is several layers of relatively thin leather that we want to secure.

For instance, replacing the outsole can pull the upper leather away from the underlying stiffener where it turns over the insole. Only using AP or something like it can prevent that...and if at all possible, and wherever possible, I would rather use Hirschkleber than AP.

Not to discount the use of pegs in any way, esp. for securing outsole and heel lifts layers.

Of course, nails would work where pegs don't quite...

[carsten]

@dw . Yes that makes sense. I did not think of replacing the outsole or repairing the shoe. Thanks for clarifying.

[nickb1]

@nickb1. Nick: Please feel free to post your review if you get a chance to try it.

@carsten I'll probably try outseaming with your wax shortly. :-)
Incidentally, I think I managed to order 1kg of authentic-looking pine pitch from the source I told you about in Spain ('pez negra'), through my friend in Valencia. I'll post separately on that under threadwax. It's likely to be very, very soft as they describe it as a "viscous liquid". Perhaps it's a super-thick pine tar? A Spanish shoemaker has posts of threadwax on Instagram made with it.

[carsten]

Not sure if this has been discussed before: It appears to me that boat enthusiasts / suppliers could make good shoe making suppliers.

Not to advertise but merely to indicate a source of hard to get materials:

Here is a shop, that supplies pitch saturated hemp thread, as well as other nylon threads for sewing sails. See:

Hemp threads: https://www.toplicht.de/en/rope-cordage ... wine-line/
Tarred hemp thread:

https://www.toplicht.de/en/rope-cordage ... pping-yarn

Other synthetic thread of interest see:

https://www.toplicht.de/en/rope-cordage ... itcher-awl
https://www.toplicht.de/en/rope-cordage ... ing-twine/

Other items of interest might be:
Pitch: https://www.toplicht.de/en/paint-boatbu ... ound-glue/

Maybe this tarred felt for filling the ball area could be used as well as the discussed Irish felt: https://www.toplicht.de/en/paint-boatbu ... thing-felt

[dw]

@carsten , That's a great resource! Esp. for those of you on the other side of the pond. Supposedly Hemp is better than linen at resisting water and rot. But getting real hemp yarn is hard if only because apparently those in the linen/hemp yarn business don't distinguish between the two as rigourously as could be hoped for. I can't count the number of times I have bought 'hemp' shoemaking yarn, in the little spools, only to find it was, after all, flax.

I esp. like these products because in my experience the hemp I have been able to acquire has been particularly coarse and almost impossible to wax. This stuff is "polished"...which seems hopeful.

[nickb1]

I seriously doubt anyone alive has had experience with true premium long stable linen or hemp yard. I have seen linen being spun some of the strands are up to three feet long.

Not sure how long-staple these will turn out to be but I recently acquired some French "hemp" ("chanvre") supposedly from the 1920s, going very cheap given that someone on Etsy has been trying to flog it at around $60 a ball , pics below. Judging by the way the tapers break when you are making up a thread it seems longer-fibred than the threads I have used up to now. No.3 (blue) and No. 6. Have only tried the #6 and I cannot break a single strand by hand without untwisting it. It's coarse and so harder than "linen" to apply thread wax to, as @dw relates above (seemingly it requires more wax and more burnishing not to untwist), so I guess seems actually to be hemp not flax. Given it's that strong and reputedly hemp is less prone to rot than linen I don't see why it wouldn't be very good for welting. 5 strands should be the same thickness as 10 strands of #12 linen if it follows the same numbering system as the Irish threads. Perhaps @das would know? The blue has a thin coat of wax applied, a bit like you find on "fil au chinois" and I guess would be used for leather goods rather than shoemaking with the nice indigo colour. It's around 1mm diameter. However it seems uneven in places, I read somewhere that threads would be checked for this before sewing.

hemp3.JPG

hemp6.JPG

[das]

Nice find! It belongs in a museum though, especially at that price, LOL. I have no earthly idea how the French sized their yarns/threads, sorry.

[nickb1]

Oh! Eyeballing it seems to follow the same system though hard to judge by eye. If it feels strong enough (stronger than the other vintage threads) why not use? I paid a lot less fortunately, just £4 for the #6, I bought all (two) of them. In any case I seem to be starting my own museum

[das]

Be sure you keep your "museum" objects safe, labeled, and as the rare "unobtainium" items they really are. We've all got them

[nickb1]

They are going into the shoes, unless I find something better! Or maybe one for use and one for the museum,