Jake,
A little story...
You know the kind of country I live in...the High Desert (although I like to think of it as the Highlands) of Central Oregon)--ranch country. This late summer, the little town of Shaniko--all but a ghost town now, from the late 1800's--held a Wool and Fiber Fair.
I kilted up and went with Randee just for the afternoon's outing. I got nothing but compliments on my "look"...with one exception. There was an old (maybe in her 80's) ranch woman there with her husband who had to use a walker. He stopped to talk to me and was very interested in my kilt.
But she was pursed lipped, silent, and disapproving, staring at me with the most baleful look. I'm sure she had me pegged as a cross dresser. It didn't bother me, however, especially since she was wearing...wait for it...trousers!!
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
HCC meeting in Oct.
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
This is me at the Wool and Fiber Fair...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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homeboy
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Dee-Dubb,
I'm sure I would have liked the elderly woman in trousers. Nothing like a woman in blue jeans and boots. I bet she had boots on!
I'm serious now, but how in the world did the Scots get to wearing the kilt? What was the purpose or tradition? Hell, it gets cold in Scotland!
I can tell by the feller's expression in the above photo that I wouldn't aggravate him about his kilt! All you fellers carry sticks?
See ya this weekend!
Adios, Jake
I'm sure I would have liked the elderly woman in trousers. Nothing like a woman in blue jeans and boots. I bet she had boots on!
I'm serious now, but how in the world did the Scots get to wearing the kilt? What was the purpose or tradition? Hell, it gets cold in Scotland!
I can tell by the feller's expression in the above photo that I wouldn't aggravate him about his kilt! All you fellers carry sticks?
See ya this weekend!
Adios, Jake
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das
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Hey "Gertrude",
BTW DW will have reinforcements this weekend--at least two other HCC guys are figuring a way to get their kilts packed (Georgene, bring your camera).
As to the history of the garment in Scotland, you can do no better than consulting anything written by JohnTelfer Dunbar. Try Googling him. I've been toasty-warm in mine in 9 degrees Fahrenheit, in snow, but with 6 yards of blanket wool pleated around your mid-section, so would you. Thanks to the TSA goon-squad you're safe--the long sharp pointy things that hurt, traditionally worn with the kilt must be left home dad-gummit, else you might get your forearm de-boned for such impudence (primarily the Irish are fans of the "sticks"--the Highlanders prefer various blades, some worn were you can see them, others tucked away where you can't, like back-up pistols
"Join a Highland regiment me boy. The kilt is an unrivalled garment for fornication and
diarrhea."
(Bugles and a Tiger: A Volume of Autobiography By John Masters 1956)
PS--I got a tooth bothering me doc... can you look at it at the meeting? *hahahaha*
PPS--And just for those "dress" comments YOU get to buy "the regiment" a round of single malts at the local pub. They do have proper pubs in Guthrie, no?
BTW DW will have reinforcements this weekend--at least two other HCC guys are figuring a way to get their kilts packed (Georgene, bring your camera).
As to the history of the garment in Scotland, you can do no better than consulting anything written by JohnTelfer Dunbar. Try Googling him. I've been toasty-warm in mine in 9 degrees Fahrenheit, in snow, but with 6 yards of blanket wool pleated around your mid-section, so would you. Thanks to the TSA goon-squad you're safe--the long sharp pointy things that hurt, traditionally worn with the kilt must be left home dad-gummit, else you might get your forearm de-boned for such impudence (primarily the Irish are fans of the "sticks"--the Highlanders prefer various blades, some worn were you can see them, others tucked away where you can't, like back-up pistols
"Join a Highland regiment me boy. The kilt is an unrivalled garment for fornication and
diarrhea."
(Bugles and a Tiger: A Volume of Autobiography By John Masters 1956)
PS--I got a tooth bothering me doc... can you look at it at the meeting? *hahahaha*
PPS--And just for those "dress" comments YOU get to buy "the regiment" a round of single malts at the local pub. They do have proper pubs in Guthrie, no?
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homeboy
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Martha,
Ohhhhh......that's why Dee-Dubb wears them! I get it!
I think I'll stick with blue jeans Thank You Sir.
As for the toothache, after a few rounds, I'll be ready to go!
It'll be good to see you fellers!
Drive safe!
Ohhhhh......that's why Dee-Dubb wears them! I get it!
I think I'll stick with blue jeans Thank You Sir.
As for the toothache, after a few rounds, I'll be ready to go!
It'll be good to see you fellers!
Drive safe!
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Jake,
That's not a stick. I could be seeing things but I'm pretty sure that's a basket-hilt broadsword.
As for why highlanders wore the kilt...you'd have to ask Al, he'd know more about that than I do. But the kilt...or at least kilt-like garments...are not wholly unique to Scotland. The Romans wore a kilt like garment. Egyptians wore a kilt. And there are several others that I have heard of--all, BTW, men's wear. And often reserved exclusively for the warrior class. So, as a man's garment it goes back almost to the beginning of recorded history.
My kilt weighs five pounds and it is only 16 ounce wool. Military kilts were/are 22 ounce. It takes a man to wear them.
The original kilts...the breacan feile or feileadh-mhor...were large pieces of fabric (tartan of course but also maybe something like tweed) which were wrapped around the body and belted at mid-torso. They were pleated in the back to move the excess material out of the way. But because they were wool and because the piece of fabric was large, they served as a warm and waterproof cloak, a bedroll, and of course as a spectacular looking garment when the excess was worn over the shoulder and pinned on a waistcoat or doublet with a penannular broach.
As for the old lady...well maybe you are missing the graciously expressed but subtle point I was making--in other circumstances I might have liked her too, and she might have liked me (if she had given it some thought and me a chance).
But by the same standards that she was judging me she was the cross dresser. Because trousers have traditionally (in almost all societies world-wide) been exclusively a man's garment. Even Highlanders, in the 18th century...at the Battle of Culloden (1745), for instance...sometimes wore "trews" (a tartan trouser). But trousers have never (till more modern, more licentious times), never been appropriate for women's wear.
And, of course it raises another question...was the old woman's disapproval really a veiled insult to my wife?? I mean what does it say about people who love cross-dressers, never mind the cross-dresser him/herself?
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
(Message edited by dw on October 20, 2008)
That's not a stick. I could be seeing things but I'm pretty sure that's a basket-hilt broadsword.
As for why highlanders wore the kilt...you'd have to ask Al, he'd know more about that than I do. But the kilt...or at least kilt-like garments...are not wholly unique to Scotland. The Romans wore a kilt like garment. Egyptians wore a kilt. And there are several others that I have heard of--all, BTW, men's wear. And often reserved exclusively for the warrior class. So, as a man's garment it goes back almost to the beginning of recorded history.
My kilt weighs five pounds and it is only 16 ounce wool. Military kilts were/are 22 ounce. It takes a man to wear them.
The original kilts...the breacan feile or feileadh-mhor...were large pieces of fabric (tartan of course but also maybe something like tweed) which were wrapped around the body and belted at mid-torso. They were pleated in the back to move the excess material out of the way. But because they were wool and because the piece of fabric was large, they served as a warm and waterproof cloak, a bedroll, and of course as a spectacular looking garment when the excess was worn over the shoulder and pinned on a waistcoat or doublet with a penannular broach.
As for the old lady...well maybe you are missing the graciously expressed but subtle point I was making--in other circumstances I might have liked her too, and she might have liked me (if she had given it some thought and me a chance).
But by the same standards that she was judging me she was the cross dresser. Because trousers have traditionally (in almost all societies world-wide) been exclusively a man's garment. Even Highlanders, in the 18th century...at the Battle of Culloden (1745), for instance...sometimes wore "trews" (a tartan trouser). But trousers have never (till more modern, more licentious times), never been appropriate for women's wear.
And, of course it raises another question...was the old woman's disapproval really a veiled insult to my wife?? I mean what does it say about people who love cross-dressers, never mind the cross-dresser him/herself?
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
(Message edited by dw on October 20, 2008)
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das
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
"Al and DW at their High School reunion last year"
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Long as were having a picture party here, here's one of my "cousins"
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
BTW, for those following this discussion with anything more than mild curiosity, it is interesting to note that there were kilted regiments that fought in the Revolutionary War; on both sides in the American Civil War; in Portugal, Spain and France against Napoleon; and in both WWI and WWII.
The Germans, in particular, were afraid of the highland regiments...calling them the "Ladies from Hell."
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
The Germans, in particular, were afraid of the highland regiments...calling them the "Ladies from Hell."
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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das
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
DW,
As to the "old lady" who looked askance, have pity and let fools make fools of themselves. If she's lived on this planet past the age of 20-something, and never seen a Highlander or just a man in a kilt--even pictures in magazines, books, films, TV--you gotta wonder rock she's been hiding under
See: Jacoby, 'The American Age of Unreason'
As to the "old lady" who looked askance, have pity and let fools make fools of themselves. If she's lived on this planet past the age of 20-something, and never seen a Highlander or just a man in a kilt--even pictures in magazines, books, films, TV--you gotta wonder rock she's been hiding under
See: Jacoby, 'The American Age of Unreason'
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Weel, just to bring everything back "on topic"...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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amuckart
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
For those who have to travel with a kilt the best way to pack them I've found is to carefully roll it up, taking care of the pleats, and roll a nylon stocking over it. This will hold it rolled up without crushing it it at any point. If you need to put it in a soft sided suitcase you can put the resultant kilt sausage in a poster tube and if you leave a little space in the top you can get your gaiters and sgian dubh in there too and keep the whole ensemble together.
I hope you all have fun at the meeting. I'll get over there for one one of these years and I suppose being a native (albeit expatriate) Scot I'd have to bring a kilt and whisky.
I hope you all have fun at the meeting. I'll get over there for one one of these years and I suppose being a native (albeit expatriate) Scot I'd have to bring a kilt and whisky.
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das
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Alasdair,
Och, I ken'd you'd know the nylons-sausage kilt-carrier trick! Good tip. Though I din nae think oor TSA (airport) goons will admit sgain dubhs tae gae through, so we'll just hae ta rely on oour fists (wi' car keys), ability to head-butt, and of course broken beer bottles if the pub gets rowdy--Jake! Ya hear that Jake?
As a freeman/citizen of the City of Glasgow/Burgess Cordiner me'sel, I was figuring I'd have to buy a round of whiskies, until Jake started in on our kilts this AM--now he has the duty... hear that Jake? Don't tell him (Jake) that in Scottish pubs, the women take pride in buying the men a round of whiskies, so that's why we'll call him "Gertrude" at the pub rail
Now, do I wear my WWII 2nd Glasgow cpl. walking-out kit, or just shabby ol' day-wear, hummmm....
Och, I ken'd you'd know the nylons-sausage kilt-carrier trick! Good tip. Though I din nae think oor TSA (airport) goons will admit sgain dubhs tae gae through, so we'll just hae ta rely on oour fists (wi' car keys), ability to head-butt, and of course broken beer bottles if the pub gets rowdy--Jake! Ya hear that Jake?
As a freeman/citizen of the City of Glasgow/Burgess Cordiner me'sel, I was figuring I'd have to buy a round of whiskies, until Jake started in on our kilts this AM--now he has the duty... hear that Jake? Don't tell him (Jake) that in Scottish pubs, the women take pride in buying the men a round of whiskies, so that's why we'll call him "Gertrude" at the pub rail
Now, do I wear my WWII 2nd Glasgow cpl. walking-out kit, or just shabby ol' day-wear, hummmm....
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homeboy
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Martha,
I'm listening Partner!
Look forward to buying you a round, even though you'll be in a dress. Just don't tell anyone you're with me!
Have a safe trip!
Adios, Jake
I'm listening Partner!
Look forward to buying you a round, even though you'll be in a dress. Just don't tell anyone you're with me!
Have a safe trip!
Adios, Jake
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das
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Gertrude,
Looks like there may be three kilties coming, so the four of us need to go as one bunch. You, being odd-man-out, maybe you could wear a bath towel wrapped round you instead of girlie pants?
BTW, is OK a "dry hole", or are there pubs/bars in Guthrie?
You drive safe too laddie, and bring cigars.
Looks like there may be three kilties coming, so the four of us need to go as one bunch. You, being odd-man-out, maybe you could wear a bath towel wrapped round you instead of girlie pants?
BTW, is OK a "dry hole", or are there pubs/bars in Guthrie?
You drive safe too laddie, and bring cigars.
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Oklahoma is not a dry hole...just found that out through Google...but they may not even know what single malt is. Do a search for "Guthrie, OK (and) single malt" and you don't come up with much. If that's the case, it might also be hard to find a decent porter or amber ale, as well. Oklahoma City has a couple of promising venues but Guthrie seems to be a little more staid(?). I guess we'll just have to hope for the best and (ahem) prepare for the worst.
BTW, just in case anyone is driving...like me...in Oklahoma, you are not allowed to carry sharp pointed things like claymores, dirks or even sgian dubhs.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
BTW, just in case anyone is driving...like me...in Oklahoma, you are not allowed to carry sharp pointed things like claymores, dirks or even sgian dubhs.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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btippit
Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
I am going to miss being in Guthrie SOOOOO much but I simply cannot make it this year. As it appears I will be one of a very few who will not be there I will be anxiously looking forward to reports and pictures on this site after the meeting.
DW - sit like a lady so the pix can be posted.
With deep regrets,
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
DW - sit like a lady so the pix can be posted.
With deep regrets,
Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com
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marc
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
"Certainly they still allow 6-shooters?"
Um, no. Although they do allow concealed carry permits.
Guthrie should have several taverns, bars, "pubs" and liquor stores. I think there are at least three liquor stores. I expect that one of them should have this firewater you speak of.
Um, no. Although they do allow concealed carry permits.
Guthrie should have several taverns, bars, "pubs" and liquor stores. I think there are at least three liquor stores. I expect that one of them should have this firewater you speak of.
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Bill,
Dern! I was hoping to talk to you about lasts...and the last you are modifying for me.
You know we only decided to come on Saturday night. Earlier...when it was all announced and people were making reservations and such, we just couldn't. Our daughter was expecting and we had a student coming. Especially the uncertainty of the baby.
But it all came down pretty much per schedule and no complications all around.
And at the last moment, Lisa graciously came up with a motel that would accommodate us.
The point is that sometimes the last minute trips are the easiest and the best...and this one is a tax write off--you know that, don't you?
As I understand it Rick Roman has a double occupancy room he'd like to share....
I know...have your wife tape the Blues game...it will be just as good when you get back.
Sure will miss you.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Dern! I was hoping to talk to you about lasts...and the last you are modifying for me.
You know we only decided to come on Saturday night. Earlier...when it was all announced and people were making reservations and such, we just couldn't. Our daughter was expecting and we had a student coming. Especially the uncertainty of the baby.
But it all came down pretty much per schedule and no complications all around.
And at the last moment, Lisa graciously came up with a motel that would accommodate us.
The point is that sometimes the last minute trips are the easiest and the best...and this one is a tax write off--you know that, don't you?
As I understand it Rick Roman has a double occupancy room he'd like to share....
I know...have your wife tape the Blues game...it will be just as good when you get back.
Sure will miss you.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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tjburr
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
I am personally planning on making sure I have some backup plans on the scotch front. Since I am driving my options are quite open
Of course I am always ready to share a wee dram of my favorites (sorry these do not run to the peaty types).
Most importantly though I am very much looking forward to putting faces to all those people that have provided such good information and wonderful conversations.
Terry
Of course I am always ready to share a wee dram of my favorites (sorry these do not run to the peaty types).
Most importantly though I am very much looking forward to putting faces to all those people that have provided such good information and wonderful conversations.
Terry
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relferink
Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
With pain in my hart I have to let you all know that I have to miss this one as well. Not that I have to travel to Guthrie to see guys in plaid skirts kilts. They do that around here as well. In fact some even shave their legs and put on lipstick. Doesn't do anything for me but I'm not judgmental, if that is what floats your boat.....
I had hoped for a last minute opportunity to make it but it's not meant to be. Just like Bill I look forward to reports, G rated pictures unless kilts move the rating to PG13 by default? Guess we have to take our chances.
I do wish all that are able to make it safe travels, an awesome gathering and a great time. The latter being a given.
Cheers,
Rob
I had hoped for a last minute opportunity to make it but it's not meant to be. Just like Bill I look forward to reports, G rated pictures unless kilts move the rating to PG13 by default? Guess we have to take our chances.
I do wish all that are able to make it safe travels, an awesome gathering and a great time. The latter being a given.
Cheers,
Rob
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das
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Rob, Lad,
I know you're Dutch, but the Netherlands have seen enough waves of kilted Highland soldiers from the 1600s (MacKay's Regiment in the Dutch service) onward, that you lot should be inured to the sight of men's knees by now, if even only in pictures from your grammar school textbooks. This one by Engelbrecht (Dutch?) from the 1760s should suffice. In fact, have a look at this: http://www.clanmorgan.net/ScottishBrigadeNetherlands.htm. We got around in those heady days!
I know you're Dutch, but the Netherlands have seen enough waves of kilted Highland soldiers from the 1600s (MacKay's Regiment in the Dutch service) onward, that you lot should be inured to the sight of men's knees by now, if even only in pictures from your grammar school textbooks. This one by Engelbrecht (Dutch?) from the 1760s should suffice. In fact, have a look at this: http://www.clanmorgan.net/ScottishBrigadeNetherlands.htm. We got around in those heady days!
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dw
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Rob,
Double dern!! I finally get everything together to come to AGM and you back out! I was very interested in picking your brains for tasty tidbits. Of course you have been nothing if not generous here on the forum but there's nothing
like first hand!!
I know you and Jake feel left out...and I sincerely wish that that were not the case. They don't issue kilts to just anyone though...you have to earn the right to wear them. Kind of like earning the right to wear paratrooper's boots.
When we will ever get together is an open question. I have occasionally entertained the idea of hosting a meeting here...in the upper left-hand corner but I suspect that the right side guys would have to give it a miss. It's tough living in a big, big country, and especially during these times (although gas is under $3.00 nationwide since yesterday)
I will be leaving in an hour or two so take good care of the forum for me...
You and Bill are gonna miss a good one, though.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Double dern!! I finally get everything together to come to AGM and you back out! I was very interested in picking your brains for tasty tidbits. Of course you have been nothing if not generous here on the forum but there's nothing
like first hand!!
I know you and Jake feel left out...and I sincerely wish that that were not the case. They don't issue kilts to just anyone though...you have to earn the right to wear them. Kind of like earning the right to wear paratrooper's boots.
When we will ever get together is an open question. I have occasionally entertained the idea of hosting a meeting here...in the upper left-hand corner but I suspect that the right side guys would have to give it a miss. It's tough living in a big, big country, and especially during these times (although gas is under $3.00 nationwide since yesterday)
I will be leaving in an hour or two so take good care of the forum for me...
You and Bill are gonna miss a good one, though.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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das
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Re: HCC meeting in Oct.
Rob,
My bad--Correction: MacKay's regiment was in the Danish service, not Dutch, but they did spend time in the Netherlands too. You're mighty tall for a Dutchman--you sure you don't have any "Macs" in your family tree? The mystique of the kilted soldier has worked its magic on local girls of every stripe around the world since time immemorial, until there are currently more people of Scottish ancestry outside of Scotland than inside
My bad--Correction: MacKay's regiment was in the Danish service, not Dutch, but they did spend time in the Netherlands too. You're mighty tall for a Dutchman--you sure you don't have any "Macs" in your family tree? The mystique of the kilted soldier has worked its magic on local girls of every stripe around the world since time immemorial, until there are currently more people of Scottish ancestry outside of Scotland than inside