Gordon,
No experience but it depends on what you want the thread for.
I looked at the websites and from that info I came to the conclusion that these were already plyed threads...cords, really. If you are looking to use these in a machine, they are probably very good. If you are looking to hand sew small leather goods with a needle, they are probably excellent. However if you are wanting to make up waxed ends for inseaming shoes or boots, plyed threads are probably not the best way to go.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Thread
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gordy
Re: Thread
DW:
Thanks DW, that is what I wanted them for. I'm trying to gather materials to have a go at making (for starters) a simple pair of shoes and the hardest thing at the moment is knowing what and where to get stuff (I'm in the UK). I've no objection to using polyester if it does the job but there's a plethora of different types and sizes. If someone could just point me to a source with item numbers for inseam and sole threads it would be a great help.
This is a fantastic resource you have here. I've been trolling through the messages and I'm sure it's going to save me hours of heartache. Members' enthusiasm for their craft is truly inspirational. Keep up the good work.
Gordon
However if you are wanting to make up waxed ends for inseaming shoes or boots, plyed threads are probably not the best way to go.
Thanks DW, that is what I wanted them for. I'm trying to gather materials to have a go at making (for starters) a simple pair of shoes and the hardest thing at the moment is knowing what and where to get stuff (I'm in the UK). I've no objection to using polyester if it does the job but there's a plethora of different types and sizes. If someone could just point me to a source with item numbers for inseam and sole threads it would be a great help.
This is a fantastic resource you have here. I've been trolling through the messages and I'm sure it's going to save me hours of heartache. Members' enthusiasm for their craft is truly inspirational. Keep up the good work.
Gordon
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dw
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Re: Thread
Gordon,
There may be no single source. Maine Shoe and Thread (do a "keyword search" ) is my source for poly. It is a bit more complicated to make waxed ends from poly...there's a full scale tutorial here on the board...but the good news is that it is more durable and stronger than linen. It does stretch a little (alot less than nylon, though) whereas linen doesn't stretch at all.
As for linen yarn sources...well, it's changing all the time some of the sources mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread are probably worth checking out. Almost any shoe finder that has been in business for any length of time may have some old stock Barbours or Blue Mountain.
What you want is single strand linen yarn usually designated as #10. Preferably "unbleached." As the size goes up the diameter goes down. I've seen some #20 out there (can't remember where) and it looked usable you'd just need more strands to make a cord. I think the standard (if memory serves) was 8 strands of #10 for a man's shoe.
And actually, England and Ireland are more likely sources for linen than anywhere here in the states if you don't want to try poly. Don't be afraid to ask your local cobbler or bespoke maker for sources of linen yarn...some will help some will not but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
There may be no single source. Maine Shoe and Thread (do a "keyword search" ) is my source for poly. It is a bit more complicated to make waxed ends from poly...there's a full scale tutorial here on the board...but the good news is that it is more durable and stronger than linen. It does stretch a little (alot less than nylon, though) whereas linen doesn't stretch at all.
As for linen yarn sources...well, it's changing all the time some of the sources mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread are probably worth checking out. Almost any shoe finder that has been in business for any length of time may have some old stock Barbours or Blue Mountain.
What you want is single strand linen yarn usually designated as #10. Preferably "unbleached." As the size goes up the diameter goes down. I've seen some #20 out there (can't remember where) and it looked usable you'd just need more strands to make a cord. I think the standard (if memory serves) was 8 strands of #10 for a man's shoe.
And actually, England and Ireland are more likely sources for linen than anywhere here in the states if you don't want to try poly. Don't be afraid to ask your local cobbler or bespoke maker for sources of linen yarn...some will help some will not but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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relferink
Re: Thread
Gordon,
First of all a warm welcome to our little corner of the web. I'm not sure how large the British contingency here is but if you don't ask you won't find out so go ahead.
As to a source, I've been eying Algeos but since they are on the wrong side of the big Atlantic fish pond (at least from where I'm standing) I have not called them yet.
D.A. Saguto has mentioned them before but I'm not sure if he has ordered from there. Their on line catalog in PDF format has threads on page 92. Linen cord and Hemp thread is listed. If you decide to work with them please let us know how they are, quality of the products and customer service. Good suppliers are not all that easy to find so share the experience and keep them in business.
Good luck with your shoes and once comfortable settled in here feel free to introduce yourself in the registry section of the side.
Rob
First of all a warm welcome to our little corner of the web. I'm not sure how large the British contingency here is but if you don't ask you won't find out so go ahead.
As to a source, I've been eying Algeos but since they are on the wrong side of the big Atlantic fish pond (at least from where I'm standing) I have not called them yet.
D.A. Saguto has mentioned them before but I'm not sure if he has ordered from there. Their on line catalog in PDF format has threads on page 92. Linen cord and Hemp thread is listed. If you decide to work with them please let us know how they are, quality of the products and customer service. Good suppliers are not all that easy to find so share the experience and keep them in business.
Good luck with your shoes and once comfortable settled in here feel free to introduce yourself in the registry section of the side.
Rob
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gordy
Re: Thread
DW wrote: There may be no single source. Maine Shoe and Thread...
Right. This is the sort of difficulty I've had. I'd read your tutorial which was really easy to follow - thanks. But I coldn't find any reference to unwaxed poly (Teklon) on the Maine site. It's obviously easier if I can find a UK source but I'll order from overseas if neccessary. Somac have some unwaxed poly but they don't give much information about it on the site. I'll call them Monday and see if I can get some samples.
"[...] What you want is single strand linen yarn usually designated as #10. Preferably "unbleached." [...] was 8 strands of #10 for a man's shoe. "
Thanks, at least I know where to start if I wind up using linen.
" And actually, England and Ireland are more likely sources for linen than anywhere here in the states if you don't want to try poly. Don't be afraid to ask your local cobbler or bespoke maker for sources of linen yarn...some will help some will not but it doesn't hurt to ask. "
You could be forgiven for thinking that we should be tripping over the stuff here but it doesn't seem to be that way. It might be available but the industry in general doesn't seem to have quite got the hang of the internet. Bakers tannery don't even have a web site AFAICS.
Shoe/boot makers are a dying breed. There are probably not much more than a handful in the whole of Britain. There is one not to far from here though 'The Cordwainer' in Leigh. If you Google for it in quotes you'll find him. If I'm still having difficulty I may call him. He's just had an article (post me getting interested) in a local paper so he'll likely be inundated with queries right now. I'll let the dust settle before I call him - if neccessary.
Rob wrote: First of all a warm welcome to our little corner of the web.
Thank you for the warm welcome and thank you for letting me into your corner. I'm really looking forward to getting started, it's just proving a little difficult to pull the right resources together.
"[...] Their on line catalog in PDF format has threads on page 92. "
Right. I'd missed this as I'd only looked on their site. I thought it was odd that there were no threads.
"[...] Linen cord and Hemp thread is listed. If you decide to work with them please let us know how they are, quality of the products and customer service. Good suppliers are not all that easy to find so share the experience and keep them in business."
I will.
"Good luck with your shoes and once comfortable settled in here feel free to introduce yourself in the registry section of the side. "
Thanks and I will.
Cheers
Gordon
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dw
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Re: Thread
Gordon,
Maine thread does carry spools of unwaxed. that's what I'm using...and it comes in lots of colours including rasberry and turquoise. [img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/proud.gif"%20ALT=":O[/img]
Try emailing Rusty Vallee sales@mainethread.com and ask him about it--tell him I sent you.
You want 8 cord or maybe even a little bigger--10?--I think 8 is what I'm using for inseaming.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Maine thread does carry spools of unwaxed. that's what I'm using...and it comes in lots of colours including rasberry and turquoise. [img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/proud.gif"%20ALT=":O[/img]
Try emailing Rusty Vallee sales@mainethread.com and ask him about it--tell him I sent you.
You want 8 cord or maybe even a little bigger--10?--I think 8 is what I'm using for inseaming.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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gordy
Re: Thread
DW wrote: "Maine thread does carry spools of unwaxed. that's what I'm using...and it comes in lots of colours including rasberry and turquoise.
Try emailing Rusty Vallee sales@mainethread.com and ask him about it--tell him I sent you.
You want 8 cord or maybe even a little bigger--10?--I think 8 is what I'm using for inseaming.
"
Thanks. I wasn't doubting you I just couldn't find it on the site. I'll see what SoMac come up with first and if it's no use I'll get in touch with Maine.
re: Algeos: Phoned them today for a price list, nice and friendly, didn't fall over laughing when I said I was 'thinking' about making shoes and *offered* to send a catalogue.
Cheers
Gordon
Try emailing Rusty Vallee sales@mainethread.com and ask him about it--tell him I sent you.
You want 8 cord or maybe even a little bigger--10?--I think 8 is what I'm using for inseaming.
"
Thanks. I wasn't doubting you I just couldn't find it on the site. I'll see what SoMac come up with first and if it's no use I'll get in touch with Maine.
re: Algeos: Phoned them today for a price list, nice and friendly, didn't fall over laughing when I said I was 'thinking' about making shoes and *offered* to send a catalogue.
Cheers
Gordon
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chuck_deats
Re: Thread
Can't resist putting in my two bits worth. I am still a novice, working on my sixth pair of boots, but have been using Coats & Clark button and craft thread for inseaming and hand outsole sewing, basically anywhere you would use #10 linen. I used it on my first pair of boots because I did not know where to get #10 linen like most other beginners. I later aquired a lifetime supply Barbour's # 10 linen, the plastic tube hard spun stuff, which I used a time or two, but I have gone back to the button
and craft thread. Here are the reasons why:
The Coats & Clark button and craft thread is 74% Dacron/polyester with 26% cotton glace on the
outside. The strength is in the polyester so rot should never be a problem.
The button and craft thread is almost exactly the same size as #10 linen, at least according to the slip clutch on my micrometer.
I can break #10 linen in my hands but cannot break the button and craft thread. Probably a moot point because how strong is strong enough.
The cotton glace takes wax beautifully and sticks to the nylon bristles well, probably better than linen, even with my over hard rosin and beeswax stuff. Tried some 100% polyester, but had trouble getting it to take the wax. Havn't tried some of the softer lanolin wax mixes.
The button and craft thread tapers nicely if you use a scraping cut with a sharp knife. For you
cowboys, it is the same stroke as cutting a calf. Linen probably tapers nicer.
The button and craft thread gives a bright white outsole stitching when waxed with clean pure
beeswax, not the off-white tan of the linen or the plastic look of pure polyester.
The button and craft thread is available at almost any cloth store and comes in a variety of colors, probably also in the UK.
On the down side, I have only been able to find it in 75 yard spools. A 12 foot (4 yard), nine strand inseaming thread takes 36 yards plus wastage, so it takes a fresh spool for each boot. There is usually enough left for a six or seven strand outsole stitching. The thread is inexpensive, less than a
dollar a spool (89 cents, if I remember right).
OK, somebody shoot at me. If my reasoning is not right, let me know so I don't keep doing the wrong thing, or maybe I just stumbled on to what everyone else already knows. No, I don't own any Coats & Clark stock. Again, thanks to all of you for the information on this forum
Chuck Deats
and craft thread. Here are the reasons why:
The Coats & Clark button and craft thread is 74% Dacron/polyester with 26% cotton glace on the
outside. The strength is in the polyester so rot should never be a problem.
The button and craft thread is almost exactly the same size as #10 linen, at least according to the slip clutch on my micrometer.
I can break #10 linen in my hands but cannot break the button and craft thread. Probably a moot point because how strong is strong enough.
The cotton glace takes wax beautifully and sticks to the nylon bristles well, probably better than linen, even with my over hard rosin and beeswax stuff. Tried some 100% polyester, but had trouble getting it to take the wax. Havn't tried some of the softer lanolin wax mixes.
The button and craft thread tapers nicely if you use a scraping cut with a sharp knife. For you
cowboys, it is the same stroke as cutting a calf. Linen probably tapers nicer.
The button and craft thread gives a bright white outsole stitching when waxed with clean pure
beeswax, not the off-white tan of the linen or the plastic look of pure polyester.
The button and craft thread is available at almost any cloth store and comes in a variety of colors, probably also in the UK.
On the down side, I have only been able to find it in 75 yard spools. A 12 foot (4 yard), nine strand inseaming thread takes 36 yards plus wastage, so it takes a fresh spool for each boot. There is usually enough left for a six or seven strand outsole stitching. The thread is inexpensive, less than a
dollar a spool (89 cents, if I remember right).
OK, somebody shoot at me. If my reasoning is not right, let me know so I don't keep doing the wrong thing, or maybe I just stumbled on to what everyone else already knows. No, I don't own any Coats & Clark stock. Again, thanks to all of you for the information on this forum
Chuck Deats
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dw
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Re: Thread
Chuck,
Hey, now you got me interested! Great explanation and sound reasoning. That's what I'm talkin' about!!
But I am pretty sure that if you contacted Coats and Clark direct (do they have a web site?) you'd be able to get larger quantities at a perhaps substantially reduced price.
I wish I had some in-shop right now, I'd make up a couple of strings.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Hey, now you got me interested! Great explanation and sound reasoning. That's what I'm talkin' about!!
But I am pretty sure that if you contacted Coats and Clark direct (do they have a web site?) you'd be able to get larger quantities at a perhaps substantially reduced price.
I wish I had some in-shop right now, I'd make up a couple of strings.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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dw
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Re: Thread
Thanks Mark...
Hey, Chuck...I went to the Coats and Clark website but couldn't figfure out which thread it was you were getting...??
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Hey, Chuck...I went to the Coats and Clark website but couldn't figfure out which thread it was you were getting...??
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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jake
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Re: Thread
Hey Chuck,
Heck....sounds like great reasoning to me! I'm wanting to investigate.
Thanks for the post!
Heck....sounds like great reasoning to me! I'm wanting to investigate.
Thanks for the post!
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chuck_deats
Re: Thread
DW,
On the Coats & Clark web site--Find Product---Thread---Dual Duty Plus---Art 220 Button Carpet & Craft.
This Thread is normally stocked by any store that sells cloth in the Coats & Clark thread display rack.
Chuck
On the Coats & Clark web site--Find Product---Thread---Dual Duty Plus---Art 220 Button Carpet & Craft.
This Thread is normally stocked by any store that sells cloth in the Coats & Clark thread display rack.
Chuck
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chuck_deats
Re: Thread
Gordon,
I think the quilting thread is much finer than button and craft thread. Don't know what Ticket 50 thickness means. Would probably work with more strands. Will check the next time I am in the cloth store.
Chuck
I think the quilting thread is much finer than button and craft thread. Don't know what Ticket 50 thickness means. Would probably work with more strands. Will check the next time I am in the cloth store.
Chuck
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dw
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Re: Thread
Gang,
Got a call the other day from a former student who said that Sherman Shoe Supply had gone out of business. Sherman was my primary source of all sizes of bonded nylkon thread. They repped for American and Efrid or someone like that(maybe Synthetic thread) and sent out a "swatchbook" that had probably 75 or more colours--all the primaries and variations such that you could literally start with any shade of blue, for instance and continue stitching lines of blue shades and never repeat your colours in a set of 8-10 lines. Blues and blue shades, greens and green shades, reds and red shades merging in to purples and purple shades, etc.. Best selection I ever saw.
In any case, the owner of Sherman Shoe Supply retired and sold out to G. Goldberg Co. Inc., 16 Proctor Street, Salem, MA 01970, 1.978.745.3030. Ask for Phil. Same selection...they may even send you a colour card and in addition they are the best readily accessible source for eyelets and hooks that I have found--any other sources wanting to sell very large quantities as a minimum.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Got a call the other day from a former student who said that Sherman Shoe Supply had gone out of business. Sherman was my primary source of all sizes of bonded nylkon thread. They repped for American and Efrid or someone like that(maybe Synthetic thread) and sent out a "swatchbook" that had probably 75 or more colours--all the primaries and variations such that you could literally start with any shade of blue, for instance and continue stitching lines of blue shades and never repeat your colours in a set of 8-10 lines. Blues and blue shades, greens and green shades, reds and red shades merging in to purples and purple shades, etc.. Best selection I ever saw.
In any case, the owner of Sherman Shoe Supply retired and sold out to G. Goldberg Co. Inc., 16 Proctor Street, Salem, MA 01970, 1.978.745.3030. Ask for Phil. Same selection...they may even send you a colour card and in addition they are the best readily accessible source for eyelets and hooks that I have found--any other sources wanting to sell very large quantities as a minimum.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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tomo
Re: Thread
To all et.al,
I was looking through the Ohio Travel Bag catalogue and found on page 232 that they carry "Waxed Hand Sewing Thread with Finished Tapered end" They're 100% polyester and come in 8 cord and 11 cord, are sold by the dozen or gross and are 72" long. Colours are Black, Tan and Chestnut Brown. They advertise them as beingsuitable for sewing the tops of mocs and loafers. These would be great if you had a use for them...
More power to y'awl
T.
I was looking through the Ohio Travel Bag catalogue and found on page 232 that they carry "Waxed Hand Sewing Thread with Finished Tapered end" They're 100% polyester and come in 8 cord and 11 cord, are sold by the dozen or gross and are 72" long. Colours are Black, Tan and Chestnut Brown. They advertise them as beingsuitable for sewing the tops of mocs and loafers. These would be great if you had a use for them...
More power to y'awl
T.
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dw
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Re: Thread
It's paraffin wax though...some folks like it just fine. I can't stand it--no lock.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Tight Stitches
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paul
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Re: Thread
I could use a little help.
I'm looking for a color chart for Rices Nylon B Thread. I have found some thread in colors, but I don't know numbers of colors to place the order.
Would anyone have an extra chart or be willing to scan?
TIA, PK
I'm looking for a color chart for Rices Nylon B Thread. I have found some thread in colors, but I don't know numbers of colors to place the order.
Would anyone have an extra chart or be willing to scan?
TIA, PK
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dw
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Re: Thread
Paul,
I don't use Rice...it's a good thread but not bonded. So I can't scan a colour card for you.
You may be in a hurry ...if not, Goldberg carries a great selection of colours, as mentioned five posts above.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
I don't use Rice...it's a good thread but not bonded. So I can't scan a colour card for you.
You may be in a hurry ...if not, Goldberg carries a great selection of colours, as mentioned five posts above.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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j1a2g3
Re: Thread
Paul,
I was just browsing Panhandle Leather and noticed they carry Rice Thread in different colors. Phone number 800-537-3945 Open on Saturday 9-1
Joel
I was just browsing Panhandle Leather and noticed they carry Rice Thread in different colors. Phone number 800-537-3945 Open on Saturday 9-1
Joel
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paul
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Re: Thread
Thank you Joel,
I'll have to brows by that way myown self. I've been speaking with Saderma in LA and need to know which color numbers to order.
DW,
I've used Rices for years and thought it was bonded. Doesn't bonded mean that the fibers are treated in some way so as not to be fuzzy?
PK
I'll have to brows by that way myown self. I've been speaking with Saderma in LA and need to know which color numbers to order.
DW,
I've used Rices for years and thought it was bonded. Doesn't bonded mean that the fibers are treated in some way so as not to be fuzzy?
PK
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dw
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Re: Thread
Paul,
I could be wrong but if it's bonded it is a much softer compound than what someone like American Efrid is using, for example.
However, bonding is indeed applied to prevent fraying and the "fuzzies," but unless your bobbin hook has a burr on it, you probably won't see all that much difference in a bonded or non-bonded thread in small scale production. I was told at one point that bonding was most useful in operations where the machines are running full out for 10 hours a day.
Having said that, I've always used bonded thread in preference to non-bonded...I just like the way it looks and feels, by comparison.
Also Rice's colour selection is dern near limited to primaries and very few shades, as I recall.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
I could be wrong but if it's bonded it is a much softer compound than what someone like American Efrid is using, for example.
However, bonding is indeed applied to prevent fraying and the "fuzzies," but unless your bobbin hook has a burr on it, you probably won't see all that much difference in a bonded or non-bonded thread in small scale production. I was told at one point that bonding was most useful in operations where the machines are running full out for 10 hours a day.
Having said that, I've always used bonded thread in preference to non-bonded...I just like the way it looks and feels, by comparison.
Also Rice's colour selection is dern near limited to primaries and very few shades, as I recall.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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paul
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Re: Thread
I have an AE color chart from Sherman that I got back about 15 years ago. At the time I didn't see the particular color as Rices thread I had been useing.
This is something I've been putting off for sometime for some reason, so I'll look again at AE again and contact the folks listed above.
PK
This is something I've been putting off for sometime for some reason, so I'll look again at AE again and contact the folks listed above.
PK
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jenny_fleishman
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Re: Thread
This place seems to have a large selection of thread--bonded nylon, polyestor, nylon beeswaxed, etc...
http://www.thethreadexchange.com/
..although I haven't purchased from them yet. They have an extensive list on their Web site with photos of all the threads.
They have nylon beeswaxed in two weights, 277 and 415, each in about 10 colors (I used "Search" with "waxed" as the keyword).
They did send me a swatch card--actually it was more like a book--of one of the brands of nylon thread they carry that they praise highly, called Linhanyl.
I am somewhat hesitant to try to color match via images online, as I am speculating that there can be quite a bit of color inaccruacy in the photography and the color adjustment of the computer monitor the image is being viewed on. Been thinking of sending some leather swatches to The Thread Exchange for them to do the matching...
Is anyone familiar with the Linhanyl they speak so highly of?
Jenny
P.S. The way their site is designed, you may click on a link and it looks like the same chart just came up again...you have to scroll down past the chart to see the photos of the thread spools.
http://www.thethreadexchange.com/
..although I haven't purchased from them yet. They have an extensive list on their Web site with photos of all the threads.
They have nylon beeswaxed in two weights, 277 and 415, each in about 10 colors (I used "Search" with "waxed" as the keyword).
They did send me a swatch card--actually it was more like a book--of one of the brands of nylon thread they carry that they praise highly, called Linhanyl.
I am somewhat hesitant to try to color match via images online, as I am speculating that there can be quite a bit of color inaccruacy in the photography and the color adjustment of the computer monitor the image is being viewed on. Been thinking of sending some leather swatches to The Thread Exchange for them to do the matching...
Is anyone familiar with the Linhanyl they speak so highly of?
Jenny
P.S. The way their site is designed, you may click on a link and it looks like the same chart just came up again...you have to scroll down past the chart to see the photos of the thread spools.