One "Last" Question

[cmw]

Jenny

I have a question for you.
Does this mix of bondo and resin stay together under the stress of pinning and bottoming? If you have problems with it there is something called astiop that is used the same way as the bondo mix. Its a 2 part mix that holds up under all the pounding of pinning and nails will not split it. You just have to use a mask when grinding it, because it has powder like glass.

CW

[jenny_fleishman]

Liquid Last recipe...Start with 1 gallon Bondo. Mix into the can 1 quart of polyester resin (available at marine supply stores). It just barely fits into the Bondo can. Mix well. When you are ready to use it, you add the hardener that came with the Bondo. (You don't use the hardener that came with the polyester resin.) Mix WELL. (The fumes are pretty bad, so I didn't mix quite well enough because I was in a hurry, and I ended up with a few soft spots in my lasts that just wouldn't harden. Had to patch them.) If you are using only part of the mix, use the same proportion of the hardener. This is tricky because it squeezes out of a tube. Weighing it on a scale is probably the best way to measure it, I am told by William. There may be other recipes for Liquid Last as well, but for folks who have peeled the label off the can and found a Bondo label, this is probably what you had.

Chris,

I made a few small samples and pounded some shoemaking tacks into them. They went in well, held firmly, and didn't split the material. I don't know how it ages (I had just made the samples a few days earlier), but it seems promising. I have not actually made shoes on them yet. What is the recipe for astiop?

Alasdair,

Are you thinking of making the equivalent of a dressmakers form out of Liquid Last?

Jenny

[Alasdair Muckart]

Hi Jenny,

This is a touch OT, sorry.

Thanks for the recipe, now all I have to do is find Bondo in New Zealand.

I'm not making a dressmakers form. I make medieval drinking jacks, like the one I'm holding in this photo (sorry, that's the only photo of one I can find on the 'net).

http://www.paradise.gen.nz/~sloth/cf2005/html/050211af.html

These are leather, shaped over a 5-piece wooden form (4 outer pieces and a tapered center) then hardened and waxed. The shape is vaguely coke-bottle-oid.

The problem is that the forms eventually break and it is difficult to manufacture 2 identically, meaning I have to redraft the jack pattern for each form. If I could cast them then I could build a bunch of identical forms which would mean I could form several jacks at a time.

[btippit]

Alasdair,

This offer probably goes against the grain of the very concept of re-enacting but if you could send me one of the forms for the drinking jacks, I could digitize it and reproduce copies in wood or plastic. Could even grade them bigger or smaller if you need to "super size" one or make a Roman "shot glass". Rather than reproducing them here where you'd have to pay to have them shipped, I could send you a file that anyone with a CNC milling machine could use to cut them for you. I MIGHT even be able to flatten the surface and give you a draft pattern. If you're intersted, contact me offline. If not, no harm no foul.

Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com

[dw]

Jenny,

What are you going to be doing with the last that you are worried about it twisting out of alignment? Snug that lag screw down and you won't have any problems. Heck, I have more problems with "professional" lasts where the spring isn't stout enough and the last wants to open up during lasting. The cure for that particular problem is also a headache.

If you're really worried about it, when everything is just about ready to go, drill a quarter inch hole parallel to your bolt through the heel section and into the forepart section. Unbolt the last. Use some Gorilla glue to cement a quarter inch dowel so that it sticks out an half inch or so from the heel section. This will, after everything has set up, slip into the hole in the forepart and index it.

As for the other, I don't know...all I can think to say is that if you cast the last with the lag screw in in the wood, the resin will form around the threads of the screw and it will thread correctly right from the get go...no pushing the forepart away, in other words. Also, it's a perfect alignment and so a lot less fooling around.

But then making your own lasts...while instructive...is not ever going to yield the kind of "professional" look most of us aspire to, short of you spending a decade or so refining your skills, techniques, and eye. Bill already did that...for all of us. And that's a decade not spent refining your skills, techniques and eye in shoe or bootmaking. Been there, done that...bought the T-shirt. It's a lot of fooling around, IOW--just an observation not anything even resembling advice...

BTW, "back in the day..." Liquid Last was a semi-commercial product that produced a substance very like a modern day plastic last--hard but soft, too, if you know what I mean. Haven't seen that being advertised since I don't know when.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by dw on December 13, 2005)

[bultsad]

DW,
What is your cure for the loose last hinge? I figured out one way to fix it, but maybe your's is easier. I have a few I need to work on.
Jim

[dw]

Jim,

You know me...it would purely be a wonder if it was easy.

All I do is take a couple short scraps of 2"x4" and rough out wedges that fit into the wedge-shaped opening on the last. One for each last. The wedge needs to be a pretty good fit, though. And it needs to be shaped so that it "flows" from the rise of the cone to the level area of the comb--where the spindle socket is. Then I take some small 1" brads and nail through the wood into the cone and comb of the last...toe-nailing, so to speak. After that, I rough the sides of the wedge so it blends with the sides of the last and drill a hole for the last hook in the side of the wedge so I can pull it out later.

I don't figure on getting more than one usage out of each wedge. The toe-nailing and pulling them will break them up a bit...maybe if I used harder wood.... Thankfully I don't have that many weak lasts.

I do all this with my finisher...doesn't take long but it's still a hassle. When you pay a good price for a last you shouldn't have to do that.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[bultsad]

DW,
I have a way that I think you will like better. Let me take some pictures of what I do and post them. That will be just marginally easier than trying to write out an explanation.It may take me a few days.
Jim

[tomo]

Hey Alasdair,

Bondo is the same stuff we have called Bondy, panel beaters use it, but you can get it with hair in it which is stronger, although harder to work. Mitre 10 and placemakers sell it too.

More power to y'awl
T.

[dw]

Jim,

Wonderful! thank you...I'm looking forward to it.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[Alasdair Muckart]

Bill, thanks for that offer. I'll contact you offline about it.

Tom, thanks for the bondo pointer. Nice to see I'm not the lone NZ reader of this forum

[dw]

Alasdair,

Which reminds me...if it hasn't been said before...welcome to the Crispin Colloquy. Glad to have you aboard.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[cmw]

Jenny

Astiop is what some orth. shoemakers use. After adjusting and adding on to the plaster mold (it's easy to work with wet plaster) they make a last out of it. In extreme cases it's not possible to make a wooden last. the great thing is it's not heavy. Goetz has it amoung others. We get it from our supplier here in DK

CW

[jenny_fleishman]

Alastair,

Do the engineering bolts have a head at one end? Are there threads at both ends of the bolt or only one? Couldn't see both ends of it in the picture you provided a link to. Thanks.

Jenny

[Alasdair Muckart]

Jenny,

Yes, they have a head on the end just like a regular bolt. They're pretty much the same as the lag bolts you've used, but with a bolt thread on the end instead of a screw thread.

[bultsad]

OK, I finally got some time to take the photo's. In the first photo I am pointing to the pin I am going to remove.

3807.jpg

I use an awl to knock it out and you are left with the two pieces.

3808.jpg

3809.jpg

Then I glue up a peice of 3-4 oz tooling leather or something similar and attach it to the back part of the last.

3810.jpg

3811.jpg

Trim the leather out.

3812.jpg

Put the last back together.Be sure to use the beveled side of the pin to facilitate getting the pin through the metal hinge.

3813.jpg

3814.jpg

When you are done the last is back to reasonably tight. Mine will usually not break when I am pulling the toe or during the hoist. Simple trick that seems to work.

3815.jpg

[bultsad]

I just realized I need a pedicure.
Jim

[dw]

Jim,

That's definitely a "cran!" And a great one at that"

I'll give it a try. I've got a pair or two that I can virtually "break" with my bare hands and not much effort...heck, even if it doesn't work totally, it's got to help and I can always put the wedge in if I have to.

Thank you for offering that up. Now we just got to work up a name for the "official" lexicon... ...how's about the "Jim Jam" or maybe the "Bultsma Brace?"


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[tomo]

DW,
What about the 'Jim Shim'?

Jim that's a clever trick, and by the way, if I had feet that looked like hands, I'd get a manicure
More power to y'awl.
T.

[bultsad]

DW,
I think you will be surprised at how much tighter that makes the last. The pair I was working on in the photos I could break by hand. After I fixed them they were back to original tight. The best part is it only takes about 20 minutes to fix a pair.

Tom,
Are you saying my feet look like hands? I needed both hands to operate the camera while I held the last.
Merry Christmas
Jim

[dw]

Pedicure...manicure...let's call the whole thing off. That's the one thing I kind of worry about in the photos in my new book...my hands look like I've been mucking about in an archeological dig--some holy midden.

I was gonna learn how to retouch the photos and then I thought..."well, heck, why don't you just clean under your fingernails! 'Here's your sign'." Of course, by then it was too late the photos had all been taken. Besides which, what ever is under there is there for good, I'm afraid. I think my skin has been fossilized with all the years...and dirt.

Merry Christmas to you, as well.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[Joe Wilson]

Jim, DWAnother way I learned is to remove both pins entirely just like in the pictures and place the curved spring on an anvil and just pound on the outer edge along the top. it changes the shape of the curve enough that when they are reinstalled in the last that it should be tight. I don't remember where I learned this but it does work even if this explaination doesn't.

[dw]

Joe,

Wow! That's another good one! Actually when I think about it I think both your method and Jim's do pretty much the same thing. But I think your's might be more "permanent."

Let me ask for a little more detail...are we talking about the flat double springs like in Jim's photos? If so, are you setting the spring(s) on the anvil flat on its side or on edge?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[btippit]

I agree with DW that both Joe and Jim's methods are sound. I think I might have mentioned on this forum before that when I was at Jones & Vining we would put "short" hinges in lasts that were loose. This was done using the 2 piece flat hinge. The manufacturer made a special version of one of the pieces that was slightly shorter than the original. That way when you inserted it, it would draw the two sections of the last closer together, thus tightening the hinge. It sounds like the same thing Joe does when he hammers the hinge and Jim's system would get the same result in sort of a reverse fashion by moving the last pieces "out" to tighten them on the loose hinge.

I think that hinge manufacturer went out of business and JV bought their machinery but I'm a little foggy on that. Either way, you might contact JV and see if they would sell you "short" hinges to replace the existing ones with.

Another note, in addition to making sure you insert the tapered end of the pin in first, we always used a "lead" pin and drove that through the hinge followed by the tapered end of the actual pin. A lead pin was just a short (about 6 inches), steel shaft the same or very slightly less diameter as the 1/4" hinge pin, tapered at about the final 2 inches to a point. The point would fit easily into the hinge and by driving the lead pin through the hinge with the actual hinge pin you would have no trouble at all getting the hinge pin into the the slots on the hinge. Then you would drive the hinge pin into position using a punch and the lead pin would fall out the other side.

If the short hinges are available they would not cost much and would be a more permanent solution. You could probably get JV to sell you some lead pins too. I don't know if there was ever a short hinge made for the single piece, round, hinges. None of this really matters since these two enterprising gents have come up with workable solutions. I guess I just felt the need to throw something out there before getting back to work.

Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com

[Joe Wilson]

DW I guess you probably surmised from Bill's follow up that you lay the springs flat on the anvil