Joe,
Good on you!
I've been pausing long enough to re-wax my Teklon at least once during inseaming. I don't mind (many of the old books recommend doing that with the black wax and linen) as long as it will tighten up a stitch in that slippery dacron.
I guess you're trying the unwaxed Teklon?
Keep us informed...the more hands fiddling with this recipe, the better it will get.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
Hand Wax / Coad
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jake
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Hey Joe,
That's great! Hope it works for ya!
Did ya try it with "unwaxed" Teklon? I'm curious if the wax would work very well with the wax that comes with the regular Teklon.
I wouldn't think that the "form" of the rosin would change anything. Like I said, I've used a digital scale to measure out the proportions. So if you keep true to the recipe, it should work for ya. At least get you in the ballpark. Then you can modify to preference.
Once again, Thanks for keeping us abreast of your work. Let us know if you find something better!
Take care!
That's great! Hope it works for ya!
Did ya try it with "unwaxed" Teklon? I'm curious if the wax would work very well with the wax that comes with the regular Teklon.
I wouldn't think that the "form" of the rosin would change anything. Like I said, I've used a digital scale to measure out the proportions. So if you keep true to the recipe, it should work for ya. At least get you in the ballpark. Then you can modify to preference.
Once again, Thanks for keeping us abreast of your work. Let us know if you find something better!
Take care!
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erickgeer
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
I just received my order of Maine thread, and I'm accumulating the ingredients to try this wax, but I ran into a snag - the lanolin was backordered - Do I remember someone using lanolin oil? If so, how did it work? I've already paid for the anhydrous stuff - the grocery down the street sells the oil, do you think I could substitute with it in a pinch?
Thanks
Erick
Thanks
Erick
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plugnickle
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Eric,
I found lanolin at Eckerd Pharmacy that is packaged for breastfeeding mothers. It looks just like the stuff in the pic that Jake posted, but it is higher in price. A 2 oz. tube was about $9.00, but this much will last me a long time for no more hand wax than I use.
Steve
I found lanolin at Eckerd Pharmacy that is packaged for breastfeeding mothers. It looks just like the stuff in the pic that Jake posted, but it is higher in price. A 2 oz. tube was about $9.00, but this much will last me a long time for no more hand wax than I use.
Steve
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dw
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Erick,
I have never tried the lanolin oil. Frankly, I'd be dubious, but you never know. Thing is...when I was first experimenting with the formula, I had it in mind that lanolin was a wax. Now, the anhydrous stuff looks and feels and behaves kind of like a wax. The oil must have something done to it or added to it to keep it liquid. I don't know if that will boil off, but if not then the whole formula will be out of balance...or not work at all.
What you want is pure anhydrous lanolin. I'd even be nervous about Steve's breast ointment...seems like they'd have to put something in that to soften it too. the pure stuff doesn't rub on to the skin all that easily. It's a bit stiff.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
I have never tried the lanolin oil. Frankly, I'd be dubious, but you never know. Thing is...when I was first experimenting with the formula, I had it in mind that lanolin was a wax. Now, the anhydrous stuff looks and feels and behaves kind of like a wax. The oil must have something done to it or added to it to keep it liquid. I don't know if that will boil off, but if not then the whole formula will be out of balance...or not work at all.
What you want is pure anhydrous lanolin. I'd even be nervous about Steve's breast ointment...seems like they'd have to put something in that to soften it too. the pure stuff doesn't rub on to the skin all that easily. It's a bit stiff.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
-
erickgeer
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Thanks,
I've prepped the rosin and the beeswax, so I can reheat it to add the lanolin. I have enough supplies so I can try the tubed stuff if the pharmacy hasit.
So far the "Fry-Daddy Jr." seems to work well, I an't control the Temp., but it did heat up real good.
Reminds me that when I was looking for sources of lanolin (I can't remember who I actualy ordered it from - they were surprised to be out of it), I read some specs somewhere, that it wasn't a good idea to use pure lanolin on skin, because it 's very easy to develop an allergic reaction. A reason to avoid getting it on your skin, my sister said it's not too easy to clean up anyway.
Thanks
Erick
I've prepped the rosin and the beeswax, so I can reheat it to add the lanolin. I have enough supplies so I can try the tubed stuff if the pharmacy hasit.
So far the "Fry-Daddy Jr." seems to work well, I an't control the Temp., but it did heat up real good.
Reminds me that when I was looking for sources of lanolin (I can't remember who I actualy ordered it from - they were surprised to be out of it), I read some specs somewhere, that it wasn't a good idea to use pure lanolin on skin, because it 's very easy to develop an allergic reaction. A reason to avoid getting it on your skin, my sister said it's not too easy to clean up anyway.
Thanks
Erick
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plugnickle
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
DW,
The breast stuff is "very stiff". A few times I tried to rub some on my hands and was aghast at the thought of some poor woman having to apply it to "those" spots, much chafed, sensitive areas. I gave up trying to use it as a hand salve and went back to Neutrogena(r).
I am by no means familiar with coad or even a semblance of a good hand wax. The stuff that I mixed up was too stiff so I remelted it and added a tablespoon of neatsfoot oil to it ( I can see the look of dismay
). I arrived at a wax that I can handle well and locks my stitches tight. It is truly amazing to stitch with something that locks. One day, maybe I will get to see the real stuff so I will have an idea as to what I am shooting for.
Steve
The breast stuff is "very stiff". A few times I tried to rub some on my hands and was aghast at the thought of some poor woman having to apply it to "those" spots, much chafed, sensitive areas. I gave up trying to use it as a hand salve and went back to Neutrogena(r).
I am by no means familiar with coad or even a semblance of a good hand wax. The stuff that I mixed up was too stiff so I remelted it and added a tablespoon of neatsfoot oil to it ( I can see the look of dismay
). I arrived at a wax that I can handle well and locks my stitches tight. It is truly amazing to stitch with something that locks. One day, maybe I will get to see the real stuff so I will have an idea as to what I am shooting for. Steve
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plugnickle
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
If I would have just read first I could have avoided any confusion. The tube says "100% pure lanolin, breast feeding cream".
Steve
Steve
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erickgeer
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
I talked to the pharmacist, and he said the Breast feeding cream was Hydrous not hydrous, but he also sold me a tube of something else he said was hydrous and iwas distinctly creamy rather tham translucent like the Westbrook stuff.
The reason I pointed out the allergy hazard, was because the breast feeding cream says it is Hypo-allergenic. I have a theory that there is a small amount of purified water added to it to reduce the sensitiviy.
"Fry-Daddy Jr." is very hot - the first try boiled the water I poured it into, I'm letting the second try cool before pouring.
Erick
The reason I pointed out the allergy hazard, was because the breast feeding cream says it is Hypo-allergenic. I have a theory that there is a small amount of purified water added to it to reduce the sensitiviy.
"Fry-Daddy Jr." is very hot - the first try boiled the water I poured it into, I'm letting the second try cool before pouring.
Erick
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jake
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Erick,
I wouldn't use the oil, but that's just my opinion. I tried the oil back in Oct 03. I would just wait until your anhydrous lanolin came in. But who am I to say. You may discover something "special".
Steve,
Good for you!
Concerning the "breast feeding cream", I have no idea what "else" might be in it. I personally wouldn't use it, but like I've said, who knows what you might come up with.
You fellers probably don't like my recommendations, but I had rather wait and be sure I have pure ingredients, than ruin a batch.
Good Luck!
I wouldn't use the oil, but that's just my opinion. I tried the oil back in Oct 03. I would just wait until your anhydrous lanolin came in. But who am I to say. You may discover something "special".
Steve,
Good for you!
Concerning the "breast feeding cream", I have no idea what "else" might be in it. I personally wouldn't use it, but like I've said, who knows what you might come up with.
You fellers probably don't like my recommendations, but I had rather wait and be sure I have pure ingredients, than ruin a batch.
Good Luck!
-
Joe Wilson
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Jake, DW,etal I used the unwaxed Teklon. as for the lanolin, I got mine in less than a week from selectoils.com
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plugnickle
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
DW, anyone,
Just for curiosities sake, is there a differnce between "100% pure lanolin" and "100% anhydrous lanolin".
You fellers probably don't like my recommendations, but I had rather wait and be sure I have pure ingredients, than ruin a batch.
Jake,
Surely you jest. I wouldn't make a pimple on a bootmaker's butt.
Steve
Just for curiosities sake, is there a differnce between "100% pure lanolin" and "100% anhydrous lanolin".
You fellers probably don't like my recommendations, but I had rather wait and be sure I have pure ingredients, than ruin a batch.
Jake,
Surely you jest. I wouldn't make a pimple on a bootmaker's butt.
Steve
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jake
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Steve,
Most of the time you'll see it called "lanolin anhydrous" or "100% pure lanolin". I've also seen "lanolin, USP Super Fine" and "100% lanolin oil". Your guess is as good as mine. Of course "anhydrous" means literally, "without water". If I had to make a guess, pure lanolin is an oil, which probably has some water in it. Lanolin anhydrous has had the water removed and what lanolin that remains behaves and looks like a wax. This is all I could find:
Safety (MSDS) data for lanolin
General
Synonyms: woodwax ester, lanolin hydrous, lanolin anhydrous, wool fat, wool alcohol, adeps lanae, aloholes lanae, wool wax, wool grease, glossylan, golden dawn, nodorian, sparklelan
Molecular formula:
CAS No: 8006-54-0
EC No:
Physical data
Appearance: creamy-white waxy solid
Melting point: 40 C
Boiling point:
Vapour density:
Vapour pressure:
Specific gravity:
Flash point: 209 C
Explosion limits:
Autoignition temperature:
Stability
Stable. Combustible.
Toxicology
Generally regarded as presenting little hazard to health.
Transport information
Non-hazardous for air, sea and road freight.
Personal protection
None.
Most of the time you'll see it called "lanolin anhydrous" or "100% pure lanolin". I've also seen "lanolin, USP Super Fine" and "100% lanolin oil". Your guess is as good as mine. Of course "anhydrous" means literally, "without water". If I had to make a guess, pure lanolin is an oil, which probably has some water in it. Lanolin anhydrous has had the water removed and what lanolin that remains behaves and looks like a wax. This is all I could find:
Safety (MSDS) data for lanolin
General
Synonyms: woodwax ester, lanolin hydrous, lanolin anhydrous, wool fat, wool alcohol, adeps lanae, aloholes lanae, wool wax, wool grease, glossylan, golden dawn, nodorian, sparklelan
Molecular formula:
CAS No: 8006-54-0
EC No:
Physical data
Appearance: creamy-white waxy solid
Melting point: 40 C
Boiling point:
Vapour density:
Vapour pressure:
Specific gravity:
Flash point: 209 C
Explosion limits:
Autoignition temperature:
Stability
Stable. Combustible.
Toxicology
Generally regarded as presenting little hazard to health.
Transport information
Non-hazardous for air, sea and road freight.
Personal protection
None.
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jake
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
LANOLIN is the precious oily secretion from the skin of the sheep that becomes trapped in the sheep’s wool. When the sheep is shorn each year (the sheep’s hair cut) the wool is washed, processed & the Lanolin Oil extracted & refined.
LANOLIN - In summary
* LANOLIN one of nature’s own oils .... a humidifying protector.
* LANOLIN exists as a natural oil on the skin and in the fibre of sheep’s wool.
* LANOLIN acts as a waterproof raincoat to the animal.
* LANOLIN is referred to as "wool fat or wool grease" by farmers.
* LANOLIN resembles the sebaceous secretions of our own skin.
* LANOLIN is separated from the shorn sheep’s wool after each spring clipping.
* LANOLIN is a wonderful emollient.
Pure natural LANOLIN is too thick and too greasy for the skin.
Most moisturising cremes & lotions use as their base oils, either vegetable or mineral oils.
So......I would be careful of cremes and lotions to make your hand wax.
LANOLIN - In summary
* LANOLIN one of nature’s own oils .... a humidifying protector.
* LANOLIN exists as a natural oil on the skin and in the fibre of sheep’s wool.
* LANOLIN acts as a waterproof raincoat to the animal.
* LANOLIN is referred to as "wool fat or wool grease" by farmers.
* LANOLIN resembles the sebaceous secretions of our own skin.
* LANOLIN is separated from the shorn sheep’s wool after each spring clipping.
* LANOLIN is a wonderful emollient.
Pure natural LANOLIN is too thick and too greasy for the skin.
Most moisturising cremes & lotions use as their base oils, either vegetable or mineral oils.
So......I would be careful of cremes and lotions to make your hand wax.
-
dw
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
All,
The OED defines "anhydrous" as having the water removed or waterless.
Steve,
I know you were jesting yourself but I have to say as Jack Benny would have said..."now cut that out!"
On this forum it isn't whether you are a bootmaker or a shoe maker or just an interested party that counts. It's not how many years you been making or whether you think that prestige, rank, and credibility are inherited. It's not about personality...it's about ideas. Ideas can...if they are taken the right way...conflict and nobody is hurt. That's called discussion. Personalities cannot conflict without tempers rising...call that what you will.
And ideas, knowledge, and skill are independent of all those "ranking" claims. You can't inherit it, you can't gain it through seniority, all you can do is earn it. And pass it on...as it was passed on to you. You may be new to the game but anyone who is really and truly interested and not just another groupie, can spark discussion and learning. We all gain from that. My thanks go out to you and everyone like you.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
The OED defines "anhydrous" as having the water removed or waterless.
Steve,
I know you were jesting yourself but I have to say as Jack Benny would have said..."now cut that out!"
On this forum it isn't whether you are a bootmaker or a shoe maker or just an interested party that counts. It's not how many years you been making or whether you think that prestige, rank, and credibility are inherited. It's not about personality...it's about ideas. Ideas can...if they are taken the right way...conflict and nobody is hurt. That's called discussion. Personalities cannot conflict without tempers rising...call that what you will.
And ideas, knowledge, and skill are independent of all those "ranking" claims. You can't inherit it, you can't gain it through seniority, all you can do is earn it. And pass it on...as it was passed on to you. You may be new to the game but anyone who is really and truly interested and not just another groupie, can spark discussion and learning. We all gain from that. My thanks go out to you and everyone like you.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
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dw
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Jake,
Phew! You really did your homework! Good on you! This adds to the knowledge base that is The Crispin Colloquy.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
Phew! You really did your homework! Good on you! This adds to the knowledge base that is The Crispin Colloquy.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
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jake
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Dee-Dubb,
Well....Thanks!
I actually had a second thought on posting the information, but felt it was important to the discussion. There were quite a few questions presented, and some confusion on terminology. I learned something from the research too.
Bottom line here, and I hate to beat a dead horse, but.....be careful of creams & lotions for ingredients on the handwax.
Well....Thanks!
I actually had a second thought on posting the information, but felt it was important to the discussion. There were quite a few questions presented, and some confusion on terminology. I learned something from the research too.
Bottom line here, and I hate to beat a dead horse, but.....be careful of creams & lotions for ingredients on the handwax.
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das
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Why don't you guys just call up Jeff Robinson at J.R. & Sons, Monroeville, OH (sorry, no # handy) That's anhydrous lanolin.
He also sells tallow, and cod oil if you're looking to curry your leather too.
He also sells tallow, and cod oil if you're looking to curry your leather too.
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erickgeer
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Did anyone try the recipe and have it too sticky? It's all over my hands from trying to kneed it - I think I added too much lanolin so I need to add more pine rosin, does this sound right?
Going to try washing my hands
Erick
Going to try washing my hands
Erick
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jake
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Erick,
First of all, did ya measure (weigh) the ingredients?
Second, try keeping your hands wet while kneeding. I have had the wax start sticking to my fingers, but dipping my hands and the wax into water momentarily cooled off the wax. Thus, keeping the tackiness to a minimum.
In my opinion, don't alter the mixture until the wax has time to "cure" for 24 hours. Then try some thread and sew a section of leather. See how it behaves, and go from there.
Hope this helps.
By the way, making handwax would be a good demonstration at our next AGM. Hmmm......
First of all, did ya measure (weigh) the ingredients?
Second, try keeping your hands wet while kneeding. I have had the wax start sticking to my fingers, but dipping my hands and the wax into water momentarily cooled off the wax. Thus, keeping the tackiness to a minimum.
In my opinion, don't alter the mixture until the wax has time to "cure" for 24 hours. Then try some thread and sew a section of leather. See how it behaves, and go from there.
Hope this helps.
By the way, making handwax would be a good demonstration at our next AGM. Hmmm......
-
erickgeer
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Jake,
Well, I didn't wait to add more pine rosin, and I'm going to let it sit over night now. I'll list what I did, so you know why I didn't wait.
Yesterday, I made up a batch - I weighed the ingredients and started heating up the pine rosin. I couldn't empty the tubes of lanolin, so I used a small tube and a 1.3 oz. tube - should have worked out to 2 oz. (2 parts).
When it started to cool as I tried to kneed it, it would break really short - it was pretty cold yesterday so I set it aside indoors - It hardened enough that it looked almost like straight Pine Rosin when I broke it, and this was last night!
Today I added more Lanolin, and I think I over compensated. My theory about the hardness last night is one of the tubes had a distinctly creamy color - I think there was a lot of water added to it to soften it up.
I added a very small amount of Pine Rosin and Beeswax to make up for the extra lanolin I added today. I have kneeded and stretched this version and it is waiting for tomorrow.
I figured out the water this go round, luckily my neighbor had some Mineral Spirits to remove the stuff caked to me hands.
Thanks,
Erick
Well, I didn't wait to add more pine rosin, and I'm going to let it sit over night now. I'll list what I did, so you know why I didn't wait.
Yesterday, I made up a batch - I weighed the ingredients and started heating up the pine rosin. I couldn't empty the tubes of lanolin, so I used a small tube and a 1.3 oz. tube - should have worked out to 2 oz. (2 parts).
When it started to cool as I tried to kneed it, it would break really short - it was pretty cold yesterday so I set it aside indoors - It hardened enough that it looked almost like straight Pine Rosin when I broke it, and this was last night!
Today I added more Lanolin, and I think I over compensated. My theory about the hardness last night is one of the tubes had a distinctly creamy color - I think there was a lot of water added to it to soften it up.
I added a very small amount of Pine Rosin and Beeswax to make up for the extra lanolin I added today. I have kneeded and stretched this version and it is waiting for tomorrow.
I figured out the water this go round, luckily my neighbor had some Mineral Spirits to remove the stuff caked to me hands.
Thanks,
Erick
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erickgeer
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
I thought I would post a pic of my wax
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dw
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Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Erick,
Hellfire son, you ain't lived till you've had tortilla chips dipped in hot hand wax...add a little habanero to the mix next time you're cooking up a batch.
And to avoid the stuff sticking to your hands, always do it first thing in the morning. That way you can pull wax and have your powdered donuts at the same time. Nothing sticks to confectioner's sugar.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
Hellfire son, you ain't lived till you've had tortilla chips dipped in hot hand wax...add a little habanero to the mix next time you're cooking up a batch.
And to avoid the stuff sticking to your hands, always do it first thing in the morning. That way you can pull wax and have your powdered donuts at the same time. Nothing sticks to confectioner's sugar.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
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tomo
Re: Hand Wax / Coad
Jake,
I made some of the wax to your recipe, it went great, well, I think it did. Although next time I'll use a larger container for the water - it just sort of stuck to the sides a little.
But what a fantastic colour it goes when you work it. I'd just started to do this when a customer walked into the shop, it'd been quiet until then!
David Kilgour sent me some lanolin etc that he had acquired with great effort - thanks David.
I've been using it on some of my regular hand sewing to get use to it - different to straight beeswax. Good though.
While we're talking 'bout stitching, I liked the work you did on those welts. Did you put the awl through from the top? If so, do you have to be careful not to mark the vamp with the awl?
More power to y'awl
T.
I made some of the wax to your recipe, it went great, well, I think it did. Although next time I'll use a larger container for the water - it just sort of stuck to the sides a little.
But what a fantastic colour it goes when you work it. I'd just started to do this when a customer walked into the shop, it'd been quiet until then!
David Kilgour sent me some lanolin etc that he had acquired with great effort - thanks David.
I've been using it on some of my regular hand sewing to get use to it - different to straight beeswax. Good though.
While we're talking 'bout stitching, I liked the work you did on those welts. Did you put the awl through from the top? If so, do you have to be careful not to mark the vamp with the awl?
More power to y'awl
T.