Top patterns/stitching

[bultsad]

One last comment about the skipping stitches. I forgot the most obvious cause when the material is thick is using too light of a needle. The lighter needles used for decorative stitching will deflect in the heavier leathers. If you have a 120 try using that needle on the heavier counters.
Jim

[gcunning]

I need some advice.
I backed myself in the corner on a pair of tops.
I cutout some small stars. They are about 1/4 inch in size. I started trying to skive and ran into some trouble. Now there are many things I can't do but usually I'm a pretty good skiver. These are turning out to be buggers.
Should I leave them alone and possibly look amateurish or is there a special way to skive small cutouts??
Like Jake said any and all comments are helpful.

[bct]

Gary, lets open a whole can of worms, why skive your inlays at all in your boot tops.


" No Skive For The Brand"
Brian C. Thomas

[dw]

Gary,

Use a #"0" French Skive. Ron's tools makes one that is sharpened from the bottom (they call it the Frommer pattern) so that it won't dig in. Skive your plugs, too. Think about stitching. You want at least one line on full thickness (or very close to full thickness). Some inlays I only sew one line.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dw]

Brian,

Think about what inlay is...have you ever seen an inlaid table top? Gold inlaid on the side of a fine rifle breech? Have you ever run your hand across an inlaid table top? Did your fingers drop into a "buffalo wallow?" Ideally when you run your fingers across an inlay on a boot top all you should feel are the raised stitches.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[paul]

Gary,

I almost feel that replying to your question about skiving your inlay pieces, is like how you apparently felt about replying to Jakes curved needle question, 'cause I haven't done alot of 'em. But...

Why not skive off a piece of your leather before you cut it out, especially since it's so small? DW said you'd want near full thickness leather at your stitch line, but maybe there's something in this suggestion for you. Hope so.

PK

[gcunning]

Paul
I'm in the "I don't know why" stage.
"Gary, why did you cut the stars so small?"
I don't know, I just thought it fit well with what I was doing. This happens a lot with me. I think I'm doing the correct thing but do not realize how it will effect something else. I call it the Gee Ha (SP) method.
That is an Idea but this is up near the top of the uppers.

[jake]

Gary,

I would like to "ditto" D.W.'s remarks. The "Frommer" french skiver is a must (well it's not really a must, but it sure does make the job a hell of a lot easier). It also leads to a neater/prettier inlay. I beg to differ concerning NOT skiving your plugs and inlay material. To produce a professional inlay, you must skive, in my humble opinion.

By the way, I've seen NONE better than our own D.W.'s masterpieces. You can actually run your fingers over the inlay and feel nothing but the stitches.

Another note, it just so happens I'm working on a pair of boots with 8 inlaid stars on each boot. I've got to go to a funeral tomorrow, but I'll try to post a pic.

Hang in there Partner!

[jake]

Gary,

As promised, here ya go. Sorry....there's only 7 stars per boot (grinning).

2544.jpg

2545.jpg

[jake]

Gary,

I was working this afternoon and thought about you. I actually never did give you much of an answer the other day. All I did was show you a bunch of pictures, which doesn't do you a damn bit of good.

Here are some things that have helped me in making inlays:

1- Get yourself a "Frommer" french skiver from Ron's Tools. You'll be glad you did!

2- If you have a complicated inlay, you better get organized. What I mean is, you have to keep the right plugs with the right tops. Orientation is key here too. For instance, a star can be rotated, and might not fit exactly like you planned. I have a large sheet of glass that I place all my plugs and tops on. Everything stays oriented and where it should.

3- Rubber cement your plugs and tops to the glass before skiving. Especially with small items, this keeps the leather from moving around and buckling.

4- What ever you decide to skive with, it must be damn sharp! I know you probably already know this, but I mean SHARP! If it's anywhere near dull, you're gonna pull or chuck out an edge.

Hope this may give you some more insight and help in some way. Take care!

[dw]

Jake,

You explained that real well, Jake. I wasn't sure Gary was asking for that much detail (although frankly, that's never stopped me in the past ) but I'm glad you jumped into the breach.

BTW, your idea of cementing everything to a piece of glass is just brilliant! I never taught you that! See, that's what's beautiful about teaching...and sharing...and the Forum...and the like. Share your knowledge and your techniques and eventually things come back at you changed and often vastly improved.

I've been cementing everything to a manila folder, instead of the glass, and sometimes it makes it hard to peel off...although once you get everything cemented--all your plugs and such--you can shut the manila folder and store it so that the plugs won't get lost.

Also, on naked leathers ...and leathers with a delicate finish such as some kidskins, I'll use Herschkleber (a water based cement) rather than the rubber cement to glue the plugs down. I don't think that would work on glass, but who knows? With the Herschkleber, once I am done skiving I can simply wet the folder a bit, and the glue softens, and the leather peels right off. Any residue of cement can be gently sponged off now, or when you tree the tops.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[jake]

D.W.,

Thanks Partner! I had a good teacher (big grin)!

Good point on the naked leathers! I also use Herschkleber rather than rubber cement. Thanks for making that available for all. I plumb forgot to mention it. By the way, it WILL work with the glass. Just takes a bit longer to get it under the edges, but ALOT easier than cardboard or manila folders.

Networking and sharing of information was/is a strong characteristic of my mentor. People like Him, Tex, and many others is what makes this Forum such a jewel. I'm just trying to follow in my mentor's footsteps. And folks, they're mighty big from where I'm lookin'!

[gcunning]

I've been in Tulsa all week. In OSHA safety training.
Jake I like the idea. I will have to try it. I have been putting the plugs in baggies for each quarter.

[plugnickle]

(I have taken this up under the tops topic)

I agree, Paul. Even though I have read the tops discussions, I would most appreciate a few additional how-to's on inlays and overlays. Sometimes a new or different point of view leads down a whole new road.

Steve

[dw]

Steve, Paul,

Just ask.

[Paul, glad the Shrut and Asche samples fit the bill. I like their kidskin. It's not calf though, so...a word to the wise.]

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[shoestring]

Folks I to am waiting the to see this pictorial lesson preformed on inlay's and overlay's plus the discussions.I am cleaning my glasses as we speak,another fine lesson to be learned here.
See yall

[dw]

Ed,

Which that's a good idea and a possibility for the not-too-distant future (unless Jake is willing to do it--he's certainly qualified with the tool and my techniques...fact is, with his glass backing innovation, *I'd* be interested in seeing his procedures). Right at the moment, however, I've got a full plate with a student and my Golding vol. IV, and such. That said, I'm willing to answer questions....

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[jake]

Ed/Dee-Dub,

I'll see if I can come up with a presentation too. Just got out of the hay field and Tuesday I start with a student. I'll try to work something out in the not too distant future.

[plugnickle]

Evidently a post that I made a week or so ago has gotten lost in cyberspace. Sorry if this is a repeat as I couldn't locate said post.

DW,
Looking at this close-up of the Beaumont DWF boots in the Gallery, in one place the edges look turned and in the other they don't. It is hard to tell in the pic exactly what you have done. Do you ever turn the edges on your inlays, slick the edges, dye them, a combination of the above, or just leave them as they come out of the chiseler?

3168.jpg

Steve

[dw]

Steve,

I don't turn edges on inlays, nor do I slick or dye the edges. What I do is simply bevel both the edge of the cutout as well as the edge of the plug. Doing both goes a long way to refining the edges of the inlay. My objective is not to create a "turned" edge kind of look. My objective is to make the edge more or less disappear...as far as possible, considering that the inlay itself is almost certainly going to be a different colour. Theoretically, I want to be able to close my eyes and run my fingers lightly over the inlay and feel only the stitching. That's what inlay is, isn't it? Think of inlay on wood...what would you think if you ran your fingers across the surface of an inlaid tabletop and your fingers fell into a hole where you could feel the edges of the inlay? You would think it unspeakably crude, no doubt...I know I would. Well, I'd like to achieve the same level surface in leather as you see/feel on the best wood inlay--maybe impossible, in the end but at least we can try.

The edges on the Beaumont may look like they are turned or slicked only because the Beaumont is a veg re-tanned leather and struck through. The leather on the edges doesn't get "fuzzy." Also remember that the filgree on these boots is nowhere wider than an honest quarter of an inch. so the photo above is at least half again larger than life. Maybe closer to twice as large as life.

I hope that helps.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[jake]

Had some time this afternoon to start an inlay presentation. Hope to finish it up in the next few days. There's been so many questions concerning the topic, I thought I would give you what I have at the moment.

At this stage, I have printed my inlay design on paper, cemented the two top panels together, cemented the paper on top of the top panels, and cemented a piece of posterboard to the bottom of the top panels. The inlay will ONLY be on the front panels. This is a "Flying-A-Bar" for Sam Adams of Durant, OK.

3170.jpg

[jake]

Break off a needle and sharpen to form a chisel, with most of the bevel to the inside (right). I place the grooved side of the needle to the inside. We want the left side of the chisel to be as smooth as possible because that side will be our leading edge of the finished inlay on the top panel. Raise or lower the needle to make sure the chisel JUST drops below the needle plate. This will ensure our cuts will be complete and the shank of the needle will not "round-out" our cut.

3172.jpg

(Message edited by jake on September 13, 2004)

[jake]

Make sure your goods will rotate through the neck of your sewing machine. Most of the time you will have to trim the poster board.

3174.jpg

[jake]

Cut out your inlay.

3176.jpg

[jake]

Rubber cement your pieces grain side DOWN to a sheet of safety glass. This ensures all plugs stay with the the right front panel and stay oriented in the correct position. For instances, you could accidently rotate the "bar" 180 degrees. This might cause problems later in the glue-up, and take away from the overall appearance of the inlay.

3179.jpg

By the way, before I forget it, I've used RUBBER CEMENT to cement the paper, panels, and poster board together in the previous steps.