One "Last" Question

[thomd]

Sounds good Brendan. I will try an email you on the details. I'm not complaining I'm equaly torn between my love of woodwork, and my love of buying stuff that I can start with right away!

I didn't get an email on hook knives, I will check around and see if It somehow got voided. My email is proa at allstream dot net. I'm glad to hear from anyone out there in shoeland.

There is some youtube 3 parter on a Japanese guy who is making shoes in Italie. His last were solid, looked simple to make. I wondered how he got them out though!

[romango]

I just finished making a pair of lasts using the Koleff method and thought I would share the process as a short photo set. This was my second attempt and it was much easier this time. You would certainly want the book, if you are going to try this. But you can get a feel here for what is involved:

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First I create the side profile and sole patterns, using the geometric method whith the customer's measurements.

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I trace the side profile on a board. This is 1/f beech that I got at the bargain wood outlet for $14.

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I cut out the side profiles using a band saw (but you could use a hand sabre saw), saving the top sections for later.

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Then laminate the side profiles together.

[romango]

Part 2

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I sand the bottom surface of the laminated side profiles then draw on the bottom patterns and cut out roughly with the band saw.

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I draw the cone outline on the top.

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and the high-line on the sides.

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then cut some excess material from the sides using the band saw again.

[romango]

part 3

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Using the finisher, I sand up to the insole line.

10047.jpg

Using the sander, I shape the heels using the heel profile pattern and the high-lines as a guide. I also use a commercial last as a visual reference for the rest of the process.

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Moving from back to front, material is removed from the cone to meet the short heel measurement.

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Next comes the long heel, instep, waist and ball. Again, being careful to respect the high-line and follow the general curves of my sample last.

[romango]

part 3 correction

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3rd picture should be this.

[romango]

part 4

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Finally, I shape the toe as desired

10054.jpg

break the last using the band saw and fill the blade width with leather.

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Screw the broken last back together and drill a hole and put in a short piece of copper pipe.

10056.jpg

A coat of laquer and I'm done!

[larrym]

Rick,

Thanks for the demonstration. Great post!

[lancepryor]

Rick:

Bravo. I am currently working on a pair of lasts from the blanks I ordered last year via Bill Tippit, and I will post pics of my process. I was also noodling last night on doing some in this same fashion for fun, maybe using some tiger or bird's eye maple to make a really attractive sample last. I was thinking about the order of cuts, so seeing this is really helpful.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to make this pair of lasts?

I must say, the outside joint in the final picture looks pretty far forward; this may be a result of using Koleff, or a function of the camera and perspective. A few years ago I followed his instructions using some Balsa wood, but I don't remember if they ended up quite like this. IIRC, he has you do the bottom profile using an average of the inside and outside ball, which would seem to move the outside ball a bit forward.

The real question: how is the fit? Also, I'd love to see a few more pics of how you measure on the last.


Thanks,
Lance

[romango]

It took me about 8 hours total for this second pair. I don't remember how long go the first. I spent a lot of time back and forth with the book but, in the end, the instructions are pretty simple. I could probably shave a couple of hours of the time.

I don't think the joint is too far forward but the last does look a little odd. Part of the reason I made it is because the customer has a very small short heel measurement on a long thin foot.

I'll know more of how well I did after making the fitters.

Measuring on the last is identical to the measurements you do when adjusting a commercial last.

[courtney]

Rick,
That makes it look almost feesable. How did you cut that middle part in the break between top and bottom? Does Koloff have a system for drafting different heel hights. Those look good to me, do you think thats the way to go now or will you still build up and grind down commercial lasts?

Courtney

[romango]

I just use the band saw but you could just grind it down too.. cutting between the two guide lines. I also have a B-wheel attachment for my finisher. That's a carbide wheel with a rounded edge.

Yes, you can do whatever heel height you want. Details are thin (in the book) on ladies high heels though.

This seems a reasonable method if you don't have a commercial last that is reasonably close to whatyou want. It seems to me that it is just as easy to make a last as it is to make radical adjustments on a commercial last.

[lancepryor]

Rick:

Please do let us know how the fit is after you find out. In reviewing Koleff and comparing what it would generate for an insole pattern in comparison to actual imprints, he seems to generate a wider insole than might be necessary. Out of curiosity, are you using the insole as produced by following his instructions, or are you ultimately using the imprint after using Koleff for initial shape? Likewise, do you use Koleff for the last outline, or do you attempt to use the foot tracing to determine the last's border?

And, last but not least, how do you find the short heel to work out on the actual finished last? Given his profile actually uses the short heel measurement to generate the profile, I would be interested in how this turns out.

Thanks,
Lance

[dw]

Rick,

I really admire your initiative. I designed a last using Koloff's instructions to fit my own foot. It came out enough at odds with what I was seeing in West End lasts and several other styles of shoe last (including a German model) that I lost faith in his approach.

I wouldn't deny that any observations I might make come more from ignorance than insight but one of the things I didn't like about Koloff's...or really, my...results, at least on my own last, were the width of the "comb" (or as Bill terms it the "island"--the area where the thimble is inserted) and the shallowness of back curve.

Beyond that, the thing that boggles me with regard to last and making them from scratch (and again, I'm not sure I trust Koloff's approach) is the distribution of substance.

Modifying boot lasts and studying shoe lasts, I am struck by how much of the instep girth is shifted down into the medial arch area and how much of the short heel/long heel is is by necessity shifted back into the heel area.

On this last point I nearly worried myself sick about how I was going to cut the cone and lower the instep profile when I recently modified a boot last, maintain instep girths, and esp. the long heel girth. Then I noticed that despite having a very narrow heel seat, a West End last in 7C swelled much more on the sides of the heel than the boot last in 7C had done.

Don't mind my nattering though, you're getting into a whole 'nuther arena and if you can master it, one that will inevitably propel you way beyond the rest of us.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[lancepryor]

Alright, I'll jump on this bandwagon. Here is a description with some pics of how I am approaching the lastmaking puzzle. This is in substantial part based on what I learned in a few days of watching a lastmaker in London, plus a few ideas based on this board.

Okay, so here is a picture of the 'last blank' [left foot] with a finished last for the other foot. (Note the blank's toe was obviously made from a glued-up block.) This blank is a size 10.5, which was the proper length for this foot, as you will see. The blanks come with the 'heel dog' and 'foot dog' from the lathe still on the blank, but I've already rasped/filed those off.

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Here is the foot impression and the outline/tracing of the foot.

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Here is a copy I did of the tracing and the imprint. The imprint will be cut out and used for my insole pattern.

10064.jpg

Okay, so the way I do this is to first align the back of the heel with the back of the foot (note that the tracing includes the thickness of the pencil used to do the tracing, so I use the same pencil to line up the back of the last and also for all subsequent comparisons.) Once the heel is lined up, then it is time to mark the inside and outside joints on the last. This serves two purposes: first, to make sure the last blank is the proper size, i.e. the joints are in the proper location for the recipient foot; and second, to assist in quickly aligning the last on the tracing after modifying the last.

Here are pics of the inside and outside joints versus the tracing, on which I previously marked the joints.

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To be continued.....

[lancepryor]

Sorry, the picture of the copy was the wrong pic:

10068.jpg

Okay, so now the gist of what I will be trying to do is to get the outline of the last to correspond pretty closely to the outline of the foot, and also to get the insole pattern to pretty closely follow the imprint pattern, while also checking the measurements to make sure I don't make the last too small in the relevant measures. You can see in this picture how much bigger the last is than the foot itself -- the green outline is the foot and the red outline is the last blank to start.

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So, the last will have to be brought in considerably almost everywhere around its perimeter.

However, before actually starting on modifying the last, I want to draw on the final insole shape and toe shape. This is because the way I work on the last is to start by modifying the feather edge to its final shape, then I start working on the last above the feather edge.

Obviously, the bottom shape will be two things: the desired shape of the insole from the joints back to the heel (akin to the imprint shape), and the toe forward of the joint, which is largely a design decision.

So, first I use the copied imprint of the foot to transfer the foot shape to the bottom of the last. Note that on the lateral side, I didn't move the feather edge all the way in to the imprint, since I don't want too much curvature/shape in this part of the last.

10070.jpg

And second I transfer a copy of the finished last's toe shape onto the front of the insole. This is a fairly soft chisel toe modeled on another last that I have. I will have to blend the copy of the toe shape into the joint of this foot, since this foot is a bit narrower at the joint than the other foot.

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So, this is what I end up with before taking any actual wood off -- the insole with the desired feather edge clearly marked all the way around the last

10072.jpg

to be continued....

(Message edited by lancepryor on September 13, 2009)

[romango]

I didn't use Koleff to design the insole because I already had a pattern that looked to be perfect. The Koleff method does allow you to design from an imprint, however. That is one of two approaches described.

In general, going through the Koleff process was very illuminating in understanding the topography of a last. I think it will give me a new confidence in adjusting commercial lasts.

If you follow the pictures I posted, you might be left with the impression that I have a rough cut block -- and then some magic happens -- and it looks like a last. In fact, the instructions do leave you pretty much on your own to gain the shape you want by comparison to a model.

The high-line mark is the major guide to keep you from turning your block into a carrot or egg plant. It would be interesting to take DW's West End last and determine how the high-line runs on this last (which should be easy) and then use that line instead of Koleff's general recommendation. I'd wager I could reproduce that West End last with that high line, a good eye and a contour gauge. And possibly stealing the insole pattern too.

The key factor being the good eye, which I'm sure I don't have yet. But I'd give it a go if I could borrow your model DW. I don't have a lot of good role.. er sole models around here.

[dw]

Lance,

Well, now I'm on tenterhooks waiting to see how you are going to proceed with your "blocker" last.

You have the insole pattern centered on the bottom of the last...which is the way I would do it, too (not that I have any insights in that regard). But it illustrates one of the problems that has kept me from delving deeper into carving my own lasts--where the center of gravity (center of mass...may be a better term?)is located.

Very obviously you could have positioned your insole pattern more to the medial or lateral side and perhaps saved yourself some work. And cutting a pair such that the center of gravity is the same on both right and left is certainly more difficult than if you did favour one side or the other.

That said, when I am building up on a last I usually respect the medial side pretty diligently. My theory is that, unless the foot pronates severely (in which case the outline of the foot will strongly indicate pronation) the medial side of the last controls the position of the foot within the shoe and therefore the way it articulates within the shoe. I am always uneasy messing with the medial side of the last...figuring that the model expresses a topography that is at once deliberate and the very essence of the model itself.

I have seen (in Golding? I think) cross-sections of typical British last and typical American lasts taken from various areas of the last--ie. forepart, cone, heel. The differences were striking. But seeing that comparison has made me conscious, throughout my career, of where substance may be increased or decreased without changing the underlying spirit (philosophy, intention, etc.) of the model. [Just as significant, to my eye those cross-sections only vaguely resembled my imagined cross-sections of the foot.]

I may be overthinking this...and certainly experience can create both eye and skill...but it was a struggle to shape two wooden heels for my wife's pumps and maintain identical shape, profiles, and center of gravity. I can't imagine how much harder that would be to do by hand for a pair of lasts.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[lancepryor]

Rick (and DW):

(composed while DW was posting the preceding comments)

I agree that the top line location is important, but there is also the issue of profile/curvature above and below this point. Of course, a profile gauge would show you this.

One interesting feature of my London-made last is that the inside/medial side of the last is convex all the way from the insole up to the comb and cone, except for perhaps the back 1 inch in front of the heel. This is very different from the commercial lasts I've seen, which seem to be more concave above the top line. Perhaps this feature corresponds to DW's observation about moving the mass to the medial side of the last -- DW, does your west end last also feature this convex medial quarter? Also, my last does have narrower comb than Koleff tends to use. I think the lastmaker I observed would argue that this convex shape more closely mirrors the shape of the foot, at least to the top of the shoe's quarters, which is what matters. Rick, you might want to try out this medial quarter shape sometime. I'll snap a few pics to show you this shape when I get a chance.

Regarding Koleff and the insole pattern: I have a copy of Koleff and, at least in my copy, his insole pattern mainly draws from the measurements, rather than the actual imprint, aside perhaps from the front center point (which uses the actual toe locations).

Lance

(Message edited by lancepryor on September 14, 2009)

[admin]

I want to commend both of you--Lance and Rick--for great presentations. Here are two different yet intentionally similar approaches to lasts and modeling the foot for making shoes.

Good on you, mates.

Emmett

[lancepryor]

DW:

Well, you know I'm just a beginner at this....

I think Terry started with the blank more or less centered as well. However, he doesn't worry about the insole pattern, he starts with the margin of the last, then does the insole off of that, IIRC.

You are correct, when doing the insole pattern there is always the decision as to where to align/position the insole relative to the existing margins of the last blank. Given the oversized nature of this blank, I don't think that moving the insole to one side or the other would significantly change the amount of work it would require to finish the last. Also, I want the top line of the last at the inside joint to extend beyond the feather line; doing it this way gives me a bit more margin for adjusting the girth, whereas if I had the insole all the way to the medial side, then I wouldn't have much margin for reducing the width of the upper at the inside joint, since you can see that the blank doesn't extend all that far past the existing feather line. Plus, I want to maintain the existing lines/curvature of the blank's heel feather line; in order to do so, I need to center the heel of the new insole shape at the blank's heel center. If I do that, trying to then move the inside joint of the insole pattern to the blank's inside margin would really shift the alignment of the front of the last. Alternatively, shifting the entire insole pattern medially would probably make shaping the heel a bigger challenge (at least for me!). Finally, I figure the overall shape/dimensions of the blank are likely pretty well balanced to start with, so I would like to take a more or less similar amount of wood off of each side of the blank. I assume this is one major advantage of starting with a blank versus a simple block -- alot of the work of 'balancing' the last is already done in the initial development of the blank, plus you know the two blanks at least started out being symmetrical/identical to each other. While it will be challenging to get the two finished lasts the same, I think much less so than if I were starting with rectangular or rough cut blocks.

I imagine if I were going to be cutting a more or less finished last, I might err on the side of moving the insole pattern toward the medial side to preserve that shape, as I believe you are suggesting.

We'll see how it goes.

Lance

[courtney]

I have seen and read on this forum about different ways of duplicating lasts.

Would it be possible to use a STS casting sock and stuff the last in, then fill it with resin or whatever?

How many pairs of shoes do you think a last can make before it gets to beat up?

Courtney

[romango]

I have duplicated a last using STS socks. I would not recommend it. The inside of the socks are too pitted and course, once hardened. It is very hard to remove them from your positive that you pour into it.

Much cheaper and more effective is plaster-paris tape. This is available at most craft stores. This results in a smooth inside surface.

After coating with a release (dish soap), I poured in smooth-cast 300Q (from Smooth-On). This results in an exact copy. Over all, this process is expensive and time consuming. But it does work.

As far as number of shoes that may be made on a last before it gets too beat up... maybe 20?

[courtney]

Thanks Rick,
Do you think that the two piece plaster mold you made is the best way though?

After making the mold could you send this to Bill Tippett and have a real last made or would the mold be good enough?

I still dont understand how you cut your last in two, I see how you cut the top and the bottom but how do you make the sideways cut to connect them?

|
- < thats my high tech graphic. Thanks
|

[romango]

Courtney,

I don't know that I have a "best way". I'm not satisfied with any method. They all take too much time and are too expensive.

Having said that, working with plaster is at least cheap and well understood and documented in the art world.

There are even people that make plaster lasts and make shoes on them. I've not tried this. It doesn't seem to attractive to me.

No. I don't think Bill can make you a last from a mold. He can make you a copy of your last by having it scanned and then milled out, I believe. But this would be very expensive.

One day, I'd like to rig up my own scanner like this:

http://www.make-digital.com/make/vol14/?pg=195

And then print out a last using MakerBot like this:

http://blog.makerbot.com/2009/09/15/liberty-the-tall-machine-in-prototype-stage/

But I know if I get sucked down this path, there won't be time to make shoes!

The way the last is cut in two is to cut from each side toward the middle but slightly offset. When you have the two cuts, you just smack the last on a bench top and it breaks in the middle.

[courtney]

Nasser, The piece of leather on the cone of your light welt shoe, is that called a shover?

It looks like its not skived and kind of loosely attached, does'nt that show on the finished shoe?

If you use a shover to straighten the back of a shoe last to make boots, what do you actually do. It must need to be skived to blend in?

I have heard people remove thier build ups and save them, that seems really hard if you have them all skived and sanded with AP and press cement and everything.

Anyone Have any guidance on this.

I finnally finished my shoes! thanks so much to all who have answered my previous questions, it really helped.

I will post pictures soon.

(Message edited by courtney on September 24, 2009)