The Crispin Colloquy

Genrik

It looked from the photo that you had a closed seam in the lining, is that so? If it is, then I would suggest using the folded paper pattern for the back.

From the back your backseam looks fine, I don't know why it looked twisted from the front. Maybe it is just the photo.

Tim

artzend » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:55 pm wrote:Genrik

It looked from the photo that you had a closed seam in the lining, is that so? If it is, then I would suggest using the folded paper pattern for the back.

From the back your backseam looks fine, I don't know why it looked twisted from the front. Maybe it is just the photo.

Tim

If I should move this to another part of the forum, let me know.

I made the upper and the lining in almost the same way. I made a mean forme including a profile gauge to adjust the contour of the back (Skyrme, p27-28). I blocked the leather for the upper and used the nett pattern derived from the mean form to cut out the leather. I added 2 mm seam allowance to each "side" of the back pattern for closing (Skyrme, p30). I closed the back "inside out" so the seam would be on the inside.

For the lining I did almost the same thing. I blocked a large piece of lining leather and used the nett pattern to cut out the lining. I then trimmed 3 mm off each side of the back, but kept the same last contour. I closed the lining so the seam was outside the lining. By trimming the 3 mm off each side the lining was a little smaller and fits inside the upper without bunching and extends above the top line of the upper.

The upper and lining are now each one "whole cut" piece of leather with one seam (and only one seam) down the back. I flatten each seam with a bone folder and then rub with a hammer head until the seams are smooth and flat.

I make top beading by taking a 1" wide piece of thin leather, skiving, and then gluing it (unevenly) to itself so that the shiny leather is out on both sides but one side sticks down further than the other. I cut the little triangles and fit it along the facing and top line. I glue tack that in place to the upper. I then glue tack the lining to the top beading. I finish by hand sewing through the upper, top beading, and lining around the top of the shoe. Trim the lining along the top line.

This probably is not the correct way of doing it. I could not really understand how to do the lining from Skyrme or Koleff's pattern book. Is the intention that the lining be attached to each leather upper piece or does each lining cut out piece get assembled like a separate upper?

The picture is of a discarded upper that I practiced with and was not happy with the result.

If you can direct me to someplace to understand how the lining should be made, I would appreciate it.

Genrik

What you did sounds about right, I thought that you had used the Oxford lining pattern and that would have enabled you to use the smooth back with the little V. I don't think I ever made anything with a full cut lining. You did well though.

In the book I think I only did a bag lining, which is pretty much what you describe. There are probably a dozen ways to do a lining, and no one way is necessarily right. Whatever works must be acceptable.

If you need to ask questions you can look me up on facebook and I can answer messages, but posting stuff here is good because you can get more than one person's input. I can help with interpretation of my book though.

Tim Skyrme
www.shoemakingbook.com

This is all of a piece so I'll leave it in place. But further discussion along these lines--not for the purpose of displaying work, IOW--should be taken to another more appropriate thread.

thanks

Emmett

My 4th attempt at putting a shoe together and the 1st that I might wear in public. Unfortunately I have no idea how to get it of the last without destroying it..
PS
Loving thehcc, you guys have helped me get started, thank you for all the wisdom

Tony

Tony,

Let's take this discussion here

Black calf, red inlays...pretty but nothing special...

Men's dress whole cuts. Annonay Fr. Calf. 1" heel. Machine sole stitched. My first attempt at "professional" antiquing.

Lot of problems with these--three of which I could kick myself for.

DW,
What does one say. The plain black boots with the red inlays look well made. It quite goes without saying.
As for the whole cuts, the value of a good shine is proven, as it masks the three obvious and egregious shortcomings to which you refer.
Beautiful!
Paul

paul » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:53 pm wrote:DW,
What does one say. The plain black boots with the red inlays look well made. It quite goes without saying.
As for the whole cuts, the value of a good shine is proven, as it masks the three obvious and egregious shortcomings to which you refer.
Beautiful!
Paul

Now you've got me worried!!



You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Thanks, Paul.

Exaggerated sarcasm.
The meaning, of course, is that the "three" are not immediately visible. And I appreciate the example that you continue to find three things to improve on the next one.
Besides the finish, I like the design of the shoe; the toe shape, the brouging along the quarter line.
Stout looking and classy.

paul » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:07 am wrote:Exaggerated sarcasm.

No worries...I understood that...hence all the "smilies."

That said, "stout?!"

Yeah, but classy.

DW:

Excellent looking boots and shoes. I think those oxfords are the nicest looking shoes you've posted. I do prefer a hidden seam on the sole when the outsoles, which one can achieve when they are hand stitched; seeing that line around the sole just detracts that little bit from all the hard work, even if it is on the bottom of the shoe.

How did you find the Annonay to work with? Where did you source it?

Lance

lancepryor » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:56 am wrote:DW:

Excellent looking boots and shoes. I think those oxfords are the nicest looking shoes you've posted. I do prefer a hidden seam on the sole when the outsoles, which one can achieve when they are hand stitched; seeing that line around the sole just detracts that little bit from all the hard work, even if it is on the bottom of the shoe.

How did you find the Annonay to work with? Where did you source it?

Lance

Thank you, Lance.

Once upon a time when the world and the Crispin Colloquy were new, I got into an discussion (I remember it being entirely friendly) with Janne Melkersson about outsole stitching by hand or machine. At the time I wasn't really very adept at using the square awl and I expressed the opinion that if I were indeed more skilled, I would surely sell my curved needle stitcher and handsew the outseam all the time.

IIRC, he told me I was crazy.

Fast forward to March of 2015...I too would prefer a horizontally channeled outsole and a clean bottom. But the customer didn't want to pay for the extra time and effort.

Actually, I like the Annonay really well. I wish it were struck-through. But it is one of the most enjoyable leathers to work with that I've ever encountered.

There is a small company in Connecticut (?)AXMS ( or something like that) that is bringing it into the US.

Email or PM me next week (when I'm in the shop) and I'll give you the contact info.

Lance,

PS...I thought these were at least as good..hand stitched invisible channel, beveled and fiddleback waist.

dw » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:19 pm wrote:Lance,

PS...I thought these were at least as good..hand stitched invisible channel, beveled and fiddleback waist.

DW:

I was referring to the aesthetic aspects (basically of the upper), not the making. I prefer the look of the brown leather and the whole-cut (with brogueing) to the two-textured balmoral look of the earlier shoe. Also, are the lasts the same shape, or a bit different? IIRC, the black ones are your shoes, whereas the brown ones are for a customer, so obviously different lasts, but wondering if they might be different base lasts (sizing differences aside).

Lance

Dee-Dubb,

We have some really talented people here, BUT....IMO, nobody makes a better looking western boot than you!

P.S. I wish I would have sabotaged your curved needle stitcher last fall......just saying.

Happy Easter to Randee, You, and Love Ones! Always a pleasure seeing your finished work!

Take care Ol'Buddy!

lancepryor » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:13 am wrote: DW:

I was referring to the aesthetic aspects (basically of the upper), not the making. I prefer the look of the brown leather and the whole-cut (with brogueing) to the two-textured balmoral look of the earlier shoe. Also, are the lasts the same shape, or a bit different? IIRC, the black ones are your shoes, whereas the brown ones are for a customer, so obviously different lasts, but wondering if they might be different base lasts (sizing differences aside).

Lance

Lance,

Pretty much the same size last and the same model.

Horses for courses, I guess...I think the black ones are far more elegant and refined...and not just because I know what went into the making of each pair.

I'm not as enamoured of brown as you are, but I've always thought that any colour was fine as long as it was black.

The Whisky French Calf is striking particularly with the broguing and antiquing but sometimes 'simple' is a lot harder to pull off than more ornate.

homeboy » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:44 am wrote:Dee-Dubb,

We have some really talented people here, BUT....IMO, nobody makes a better looking western boot than you!

P.S. I wish I would have sabotaged your curved needle stitcher last fall......just saying.

Happy Easter to Randee, You, and Love Ones! Always a pleasure seeing your finished work!

Take care Ol'Buddy!

Jake,

Thanks.

You and Paul are no slouches at making boots either. Look at the latest pair of full wellingtons that Paul is making...here. Great lines!

I'm looking forward to see the final results in The Gallery.

Happy Easter to you and Pam and the kids.

Jake,

I hope you're having a Southern Coconut cake shaped like a lamb for Easter.

That's what my old granny used to make every year when I lived in Rolla.

Mirm made us two "lamb-buh-buh" cakes for Easter, lemon cake w/ coconut icing. Guests brought a chocolate cake, so I've now got breakfast food for the week!

Smack, smack...all time favourite.

Bet Mirm would bake you one if you came to visit the Old Dominion

Here are the Full Wellingtons I've been on about.
Thanks to DW for the notes, they are vertical!
Enjoy,
Paul