Insoles and inseaming

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dw
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Insoles and inseaming

#1 Post by dw » Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:44 pm

For anyone thinking about pegging the soles on...like they did in the late 1800's...or even doing a cement sole, here's a nice technique to make sure everything is "of a piece."
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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#2 Post by jake » Sun May 09, 2004 4:36 am

Dee-Dubb,

I had wanted to ask you a question on this, but never got around to asking.

Did you cement your vamp/vamp lining down before whip-stitching? How about the shank and heel areas?

By the way, Thanks for sharing this! Pam is always on my butt for making her soles look so thick. I may just try this on her next pair and use the cemented construction method.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#3 Post by nmurano » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:00 am

DWFII, All,

Thanks in advance.

I don't know how to inseam the pointed toe or narrow toe. Would enybody show me some pictures?

I look at the lessons by DWFII, "Open Forum: Techniques, Crans and Visualizations: Toe boxes".
I want to know a series of that process.

I am thanking very much for your kindness.

japones

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#4 Post by dw » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:57 am

Naoyasu,

The process is similar if not identical to that illustrated in the photos you refer to. I am guessing that you are worried about doing a narrow or pointed toe and how that differs from inseaming a wider toe.

There are some differences in making a narrow pointed toe ...the last is shaped differently, for one thing (probably obvious...and depending on what the final shape of the toe is to be, some makers cut the toe box down the center a short distance and then squeeze the two sides together to make the narrow point. These two sides are sewn, by hand, to make a ridge, sort of, and then shaping with the microplanes blends everything into the sides of the toe.

As for inseaming...which seems to be your main concern...why, it's no different than inseaming a wide toe, except that you have to be careful placing stitches as you go around the toe. Stitches want to "crowd" together because the inside channel is a shorter distance around than the outside channel. It is easy to "pop" stitches in such circumstances. But "angling" your stitches well ahead of the point of the toe and thoughtful placement can help a lot. My only thought would be that with the type of toe box described above you would want a stitch on either side of the true point rather than right down the center. Because to put one stitch in the center would only open the cut in the toe box made earlier.

I hope this make some sense and helps a bit. Running up a series of photos and doing a photo essay is a time consuming enterprise and, personally, I am otherwise engaged (trying to finish off my FW book) and simply don't have the extra time for now...maybe later on when I've finished the book.

Maybe someone else will latch on and add to this discussion.


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gordy

Re: Insoles and inseaming

#5 Post by gordy » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:42 am

First - No laughing at my stitching! I'm new to this. I was having difficulty keeping my bristles on. We're having a spate of hot weather here so that might not be helping. It occurred to me that in this day and age we should be able to turn a tapered end into a 'needle', in the same sort of way we have glass reinforced plastic why not have hemp reinforced plastic.

Having some super glue handy I gave it a try and on a simple test I'd say it was quite promising. I actually found it easier than the nylon/hand wax bristle ends (the darker stitching) as they're slightly stiffer.
4185.gif
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Has this been tried before? If so, any success?

Gordon

firefly

Re: Insoles and inseaming

#6 Post by firefly » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:31 pm

Hey Gordon,

That's pretty cool. Is this just the tapered end that you have coated in glue and hardened or is there an actual bristle in there. If so what are you using for a bristle? If you could describe your method a bit more I would appreciate it. I am a bit slow to catch on.

Thanks,

Mark

gordy

Re: Insoles and inseaming

#7 Post by gordy » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:31 pm

Mark

There's no bristle, just super glue and hemp.

(assumes you're right handed)
There isn't much to it that isn't obvious I don't think - and don't forget I'm a total newcomer to this. In practice, for the experienced it might or might not be easier. I've only done two, the top one in the photo was the first which is why it's a bit raggier and flatter.

Just taper your ends as normal. About the only thing I learned from 1 to 2 was not to try and do it all in one. Have a plastic bag ready to wipe down the super glued taper. Twist the taper into a point as best you can. Towards the thick part where the taper meets full thread, put a tiny drop of super glue on the thread, twist it up using the tapered part with no glue on and keeping left gripping finger and thumb 1/2" away from the glue, then quickly wipe the excess off towards the taper. You should have about 1/2" solid. Once you're sure your fingers aren't going to stick to the bit you've just glued, you can do the rest. Put glue down the thread towards the tapered end but NOT right to the end, you don't need the *very* fine part and you need to be able to get hold of it to twist it up. With the glue on just twist it up then quickly wipe it with the plastic bag. You can put a bit more on and wipe again if any of it doesn't look 'soaked'. Once it's really dry you can even rub it down with emery as I've just discovered.

I'm sort of assuming people here are aware of the dangers of super glue but just in case:

DON'T GET SUPER GLUE ON YOUR FINGERS.

Early days, there may well be something better than super glue.

Gordon

firefly

Re: Insoles and inseaming

#8 Post by firefly » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:38 pm

Gordon,

Thanks for the explanation. Nice trick. I'll have to try it.

Thanks,

Mark

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#9 Post by amuckart » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:05 pm

If you do get super glue on your fingers acetone will remove it nicely. The easiest place I've found to get acetone is in nail polish remover.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#10 Post by big_larry » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:42 pm

Well I am back from the R.I. Merrell boot school and I am humbled and thankful for that wonderful experience. Now I have the ability to discuss a little wider selection of topics.

Today my mind has been wondering about pegging and why this method works so well. I am going to try to do a little pegging but I am wondering how we sand or cut off the part of the peg that comes through the insole? I hope there is a simple or easy way. I envision using a bent file or a peice of wood with abrasive cloth stapled to it and just sanding away.

I am thinking that this is pretty basic stuff for you long time boot makers but I am still on the "ignorent end of the board." If you read this posting would you please enlighted me as to the basics of pegging. I am going to try this out on one of my next boot projects.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#11 Post by jenny_fleishman » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:44 am

Speaking of pegging...another skill I know nothing about! If anyone coming to the HCC meeting could do a formal (or casual) demonstration of pegging, I'd be eternally grateful!

Jenny

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#12 Post by dw » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:45 pm

Larry,

Before you can even think about pegging...at least the way it has been traditionally done...you need to start with "plain bottom" lasts. No metal plates, IOWs.

Beyond that, pegs are "floated" with a peg float. Sometimes these are available...or, at a bare minimum, the "heads" are...on Ebay or at shows and conventions such as the Witchita Falls Boot and Saddlemaker's Convention starting this weekend(?) Or at the HCC's AGM in Williamsburg at the end of this month.

If such is not available...then we fall back on the old standby--a piece of sandpaper wrapped around the finger or knuckle and...scritch, scritch, scritch.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#13 Post by dmcharg » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:59 pm

When I was having trouble with pegging (I'm still no pro.) Jonathon Head (from South Australia) said that George Kolef taught him to have the point of the next one between his lips to moisten it slightly (apparently helps), to tap the one you are working with into the hole so it will stand upright, then (in his words) "swing so hard it ducks for cover"!

When my holes are right, works nicely.

Cheers
Duncan

All the best for the AGM.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#14 Post by dw » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:28 am

Sorry, still not working for large files...back to tech support...

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#15 Post by dw » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:17 pm

Ok, I'm in the mood for some testing...

First, the video on wiping should now be accessible by clicking on the following link:

video-wiping the heel

However, this requires that Windows Media Player be installed on your computer. It worked for me in a Test message, so anyone having trouble please let me know, immediately.

Here's my original text...

By request...

This is the video short on wiping the heel. It is in wmv format and will play with windows media player. It is roughly six minutes long. A broadband connection is recommended.

My thanks go to Tom Mickle for allowing me to use his student boots for a demonstration and and for his prodigious skills as a cameraman.

This is no polished Hollywood production...the dialogue is disjointed simply because I am multi-tasking--wiping a heel and trying to describe the process at the same time. But the dialogue is probably of less consequence than the actually technique anyway. (I might add...because it's funny...I chipped a tooth a couple of days before this was shot and my "F's" and "T's" tend to have a slight hiss or a lisp. All I can say is that I'm grateful it's a just hiss and not a whistle! Image )

To wipe a heel in this fashion it is understood that there must be no heel plates on the last. We do not use, and I do not teach using, nails in the final construction of the boot, so a heel plate is just in the way from the get-go. And a heel plate would tend to dull or break a pegging awl, in any case. So unless the maker is committed to sewing and pegging the shoe or boot, this technique will not be of much interest.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#16 Post by dw » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:40 pm

Well, gang, this actually works. And what's more it offers two advantages--larger and longer videos can be posted, making for sharper better resolution videos; and the link is right here in the email.

But there's always a downside...two of them in fact--one, all videos must be sent to me before they can be posted. This can be done in an email (keep the size reasonable...10-20 megabytes) and two, it will probably require a broadband connection to download although it appears that windows media will open and the video will stream if the connection is fast enough... that's a bonus.

The current video is 29mb and took me nearly 8 minutes to upload. Considering it is 7 minutes long that's not too shabby.

Enjoy...and if you ever want more please let me know your impressions, now. If no one is watching these, I won't bother.

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#17 Post by sorrell » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:35 am

I'm watching! That was helpful and well done. Thanks for taking the time to make the video and to post it.

Lisa

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#18 Post by lancepryor » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:36 am

DW:

Thanks for the great video. I had read your description of wiping the toe, but hadn't been able to understand exactly how you were doing it -- your description didn't make it clear (to me, anyway) that the strip is advanced bit by bit, with tacks at each step. So, the video is great for making this all very clear. Thanks a million, and please keep 'em coming!

BTW, on my Mac this video ran real time and worked great.

The video feature could be an invaluable addition to the Crispin Colloquy.

Lance

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#19 Post by dw » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:09 am

I'll do one on wiping the toe in a little while. The technique is similar but enough different as to make another short worthwhile.

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firefly

Re: Insoles and inseaming

#20 Post by firefly » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:05 am

DW,

Incredible video tutorial. It is really helpful to see it in motion.

I was hoping that you could do one a little longer. How about starting it when you first meet the customer and shake hands and keep the camera rolling until you deliver the finished boot and collect the check Image

I don't know, just a thought Image

Mark

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#21 Post by headelf » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:15 am

Fabulous heel wiping video DW

Is it possible to have some buttons on the left hand column that lead to the how to videos? Sort of how you have the Texas Pictures easy to find.
Something like this:

How To Videos
For Sale (this leads to the library DVD list)
Watch Now (this leads to a list such as Heel Wiping
Hammer Jacking
Last Modifications
And whatever comes in the future

Currently the Search function does not make these treasures easy to find and I suspect a listing as a "button" would also increase sales of our library DVD's

Just a thought since you seem to be fixing and tuning after the move to the new server. Not that I'm trying to find you more work!

Regards,
Georgene McKim

shoestring

Re: Insoles and inseaming

#22 Post by shoestring » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:35 pm

DW
I finally got to see the "Wiping" video a very fine job indeed and a valuable lesson.Looking forward to moore.........

Ed

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#23 Post by paul » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:40 am

DW,

I finally got to see it too. (Dang computer's been down and up and down and up, excuse me)

ANyway, I 'm watching too. This was great after just watching those hands in real time just 6 weeks ago.

Thank you, DW, for your committment to "passing it along".

PK

j1a2g3

Re: Insoles and inseaming

#24 Post by j1a2g3 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:58 pm

Question?

I have been reading Golding_VI and noticed that he pre-punches holes in the insole before sewing on the welt. The holes are set in back of the feather and it looks like the stitching awl comes out at the bottom of the feather. Is this correct? (this looks different then the pictures in Laszlo Vass's book)If you do it this way, don't you end up walking on the stitches since they seem to sit up on the insole and are not set into it.

Also, how far do you make the feather from the edge if you do it this way?

Thanks for any advice, Joel

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Re: Insoles and inseaming

#25 Post by dw » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:19 pm

Joel,

For what it's worth there's a set of photos in this thread:

http://www.thehcc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1155

that illustrates how I do it.

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