The Crispin Colloquy

Lisa,

First tool almost looks like a circular welt knife. What's the other side look like/

Second tool looks very much like an early version of a standard channel knife. Is the knife actually a knife or is is a groover? I can't tell from the photo. It almost looks like it has two parallel edges.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW,
Here's a shot of the back of what's probably a welt knife.

This is a better view of the other tool.

The second tool has a blade with a point. It cuts a straight channel, not a rounded groove.

Lisa

I believe the second tool is an American Channel Knife.

Lisa,

Yep, first tool is a circular welt knife... I have several but I prefer a Star Welt knife which, to my mind at least, seems to be an evolution forward from the circular welt knife--the Star Welt Knife simply works better, in my opinion.

The second tool is a channel knife but in correct lexicon, is probably not legitimately an "American channnel knife" although it is indeed undoubtedly of American origin (20th century ?) and manufacture.

Salaman, however--the best "authority" on leatherworking tools extant--calls another tool (the one I use for cutting the feather) an American Channel Knife. Since it was originally designed for harness work, and presumably predates the one you have, I think it has the prior claim to the name.

I might add that I've seen this kind of channel knife set up as a groover, or "race," as well, with all the identical parts but a bent strip of steel in place of the knive blade.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Question:
Is a Star Welt Knife & a Welt Plan one in the same?


Ed

Ed,

I don't believe I've ever seen a welt plane. I've seen welt mills and sole planes but nothing I've ever heard called a "welt plane."

However, the following link displays a Star Welt knife (so called because of the engraved Star...front and back views), a circular welt knife and several rhan knives (could these be welt planes?)


my post 26 Jan 2002

Have you got a photo of what you are think of as a welt plane? Does anyone?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW,

I was looking to purchase some boards from Dick Anderson. I have a question concerning your patterns for those. Could one use the easy board for the Full Wellington to crimp the vamps for the Dress Wellington. As I have both books and was able to lay out both patterns and superimpose one on the other. They seem to be very similar except for the depth and shape of the heal portion and the crimping screw.

Just a thought. I would like to purchase the long boards for the future but use them for the immediate in making the Dress Wellington.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,

Yes, the easy boards would work for dress wellingtons...however!!...

I do almost all my Full Wellingtons inside out. If you crimp dress cuts on the long boards you're going to have a couple of spots, near the throats, on the long boards which will be extremely rough from tacking the quarters of the dress cut vamps. Then when you go to crimp your full cut blockers, you'll run the risk of scratching the finish in those areas.

I'd like my FW boards to be as smooth and as polished as they can be--all over--and I want to keep them that way.

Just a thought...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

DW,

Very good point. I did not think about that. I was only thinking of the angle at the break point and the position of the crimping screws.

Dick did say that he had beefed up the screws for the Full Wellingtons and he did mention that you had made some changes to your boards in the recent past so I did not know if the pattern in the older book was reflective of older technology.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Mark

Mark,

If I may, I'll add to the discussion about the boards. The "set" I bought from Dick was: 1 easy board, 1 cruel board, and 1 back board, and three screws. Not pairs, but one each. I'll get mates for them all later.

But it's restricting. (no offence intended here Dic). Because there's only three screws in the "set", I can't even put the second blocker on the easy board when I transfer the first blocker to the cruel board. But I figure it'll make me plan my work and be more deliberate for these first pairs of full cuts.

However when it comes to my dress wellingtons, I want the work to flow. When I got the long boards from Dick, I ordered an additional pair of short boards. So now with the two pair of short boards I can do vamps and liners and be ready to go in a day or two. (in Arizona things dry fast)

So, I'll highly recommend ghetting short boards for your four piece boots.

PK

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the feedback and point well taken.

But you know things do move a bit more slowly here on the Texas Gulf Coast. With the humidity here I will need to get both the blockers and the linings on the baords now if I want them dry by November.

Also, I have really been interested in your progress with the Full Wellingtons. I have been excited to see it unfold so keep us posted.

Thanks,

Mark

I was walking around in antique shops this weekend. I found a crispin hammer and something I think is a welt tickler. Then I spotted this gem. I think it is 18 to the inch.

Joel,
Darn it! I've always wondered what happened to that stitch marker, I lost it about 10 years ago.
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to send it back to me I'm prepared to pay the postage...
More power to y'awl
T.

I was just wondering if anyone could guess on the age of the stitch wheel in my previous post. There is no name or makings on it. It's Absolutely Beautiful!!!!

Friends,
I must tell you that nothing comes easy for me. I tend to ask for help at the point of maximum frustration! It seems that I must battle with each and every thing I do, before I really make it work. I am experiencing problems with my eyelets and hooks. The dies for these items were severely overpriced, in my opinion, but that is ok. I will call it tuition and move on. The dies are not getting the job done. I have wasted more brass eyelets and hooks than I care to admit.

Now, will one of you more accomplished bootmakers who make packer boots please give me a referal for a real good setting tool? One that works, every time?

Do not be shy, please rescue this "poor dumb ass" that has to make everything a challange, no matter how simple it should be. Please share where I can get shanks on the eyelets and hooks that are long enough to go clear through the leather and a setter that will smash the shank all around. Don't worry I am not suicidal. Just a little obsessive and compulsive.

Please note that I have not used any bad language nor any language that would indicate homicidal intent toward those folks that sold me these supplies. Thank you for tolerating me, even when I get mentally irregular. Larry Peterson

Larry,

I'm the HCC "day ahead" early warning system. It's Friday here in NZ and it's a far worse day than Wednesday or Thursday ever was. Try getting 24 to 48 hours sleep and skip the whole thing if you are feeling really bad.

If you need help later rather than sooner, Tom O'Sullivan will be taking over my shift very soon, when he can give you a preview of Saturday too.

Tom: "Evening Dai. How did your shift go?"
Dai: "Bit of trouble across the international dateline and up the cultural divide. What be 'eyelets' Tom?"
Tom: "They are like hamlets or bullets, but with no ham or bull in them, just only eyes."
Dai: "We don't need none of that down 'ere. You finished with that kumara?"
Tom: "It's all yours for now. You're getting pretty good with that American punctuation, putting your stop inside the quotes instead of outside."
Dai: "I got The Chicago Manual of Style."
Tom: "Whats that then? It isn't in Salaman."
Dai: "Its got all the stuff, even about not to post 19th c. pegging messages under 18th."
Tom: "You been to confession about doing that yet?"
Dai: "No, Frank Jones is still in there for doing a spondee foot with trochee fittings."
Tom: "You been looking into the Thesaurus?"
Dai: "No, I don't have all the DW books yet."
Tom: "What's that up there then, on that satellite?"
Dai: "Could be the long lost Al Saguto, but I think it's probably the electron density boom."
Tom: "Not there, the other end of it."
Dai: "Can't say really. Just a wooden model of a woman's foot probably. OK I'm off home now."
Tom: "Just a second. Are those my pig bristles you've got sticking out of your nostrils?"
Dai: "Oh! I'm sorry. How did those get there? It's been blowing a howling gale in here. Goodnight Tom"
Tom: "Hang on. I'll have my kumara back too."
Dai: "Fair cop guv. Goodnight."

David, thank you. Now that my timeing is more correct I am feeling better. Oh yes, I wish you well for the early warning and consirn.

Your friend, Larry

Hey David,

You South Islanders... We haven't had Opium dens here in the North Island since about the 1930's?.
Good to see you posting again.

More power to y'awl...

Actually there are a lot of Toms here. A guy gave me his card once and his name was 'Peter One.' I said that's an unusual surname, he said he worked with seven other Peters, and seen he was the boss he was Peter One.

Tom O'Sullivan.

DW,
A while back I spoke of an insole welt plan the top tool is what I use to do that job, the other two I have no idea about the middle one is some sort of knife the blade is in that curve.

Ed
\image {tools}

(Message edited by shoestring on February 08, 2007)

(Message edited by shoestring on February 08, 2007)

testing

Ed,

I see you got it worked out!! Good on you...I admire the tenacity of a member who figures it out from the instructions. You had it before I emailed you. Your post in the Test section was just fine.

As for the top tool...that is a feathering knife made in Germany. I believe that they were intended to cut the feather with one pass...ie., cut the outside edge of the holdfast as well as the feather itself.

I have an old Barnsley that I use as well as a homemade one (and I have one of the German ones too, come to think of it) But in all cases, I use the American Channel knife to cut a vertical channel in the insole and then use the feathering knife to cut away the "rabbett."

I have no idea what the other two tools are. Plead your case to Al Saguto if you can catch his attention--he's "da man" when it comes to old tools and history (as well as lasts, for that matter--deevil take him! )

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Greetings,
I have attached a picture of a device that was in a package purchase I recently made from a beginner student that decided to sell her equipment. She could not tell me what it is. So, please enlighten on what to do with this thing. Thank you
Terri Courtney
Napa,CA

photo for Terri Courtney: