The Crispin Colloquy

Just remember the rule that the harder the steel is the softer the stone needs to be. The soft stone wears faster and in so doing is always presenting new facets to the steel which hastens cutting (sharpening).

That's a good point, Tom, and one that I don't think has been brought up before. I suspect we don't think about that very much when hand sharpening, because we go through a series of stones each of which is progressively harder than the last. But I know it is an important factor on grindery wheels.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

re the curved stones for sharpening...never can remember what convex vs. concave is, but both stones I was refering to are not shaped that way accidentally. Denes' appears to be oblong with perhaps a 3/4 t o 1" diameter. The one on the Wilson Gracey tape is a nice, fat oval stone...looks like something that might wash up on the beach, except it's much larger than a pebble!

Jenny

An easy way to remember...concave is always "hollowed" out--as in "cave". Convex is always the opposite.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

I used the Razor Sharp abrasive wheel to change the angle of my knife to a steeper angle - approx 10 degrees.

The knife now slides through 8 oz. veg tan without any problem and you can't even hear the blade cutting - definitely in the "scary" range.

I have contacted Bill Buchman, however, and will probably upgrade my cutting tools. I can appreciate the quality of good tools, so I will leave my Midas Head Knife to less tasking chores.

Thanks for all of the input.

John

Good news, for some anyway. Goetz, in Germany, now has an English language Web site:

http://www.goetz-service.com/web/home.php?lang=us&nr=1&cartid=199417998046014072 850194

The bad news for me is that you have to register to browse their products, and they say "commercial" customers only. I've submitted a request for a paper catalog, and hope they send it.

Unrelated...I have discovered that "Goo Gone" gets Barge cement off your fingers. (I can roll stray Barge off leather, but it doesn't want to roll off my fingers!) From the Goo Gone web site:
------------------
9. Is Goo Gone safe on skin?
 
Safe, but avoid open wounds and wash with soap and water afterwards. Avoid prolonged contact with fingertips and under fingernails. Wear rubber gloves when using Goo Gone for long periods of time.
-------------

Apparently there is also a Goo Gone hand soap. Haven't seen or tried this yet.

Jenny

Sharpening improvement!...In my continuing quest to learn how to sharpen my tools effectively, I recently purchased 2 combination waterstones (thus 4 different grits). I am really thrilled with them. They are easier to maintain than oilstones, and, as advertised, they do work a lot faster. I was able to get my Tina knife to the point of cutting veg tan like butter. (Chrome tan maybe like peanut butter )

My one dissatisfaction (and not with the stones) is that the edge doesn't hold for very long, even with frequent stropping. I am suspecting that it is either the quality of my knife, or perhaps I already overheated it on the Razor Sharp system and lost temper.

Besides the Goetz Tina knives (which take forever to order through MacPherson), does anyone know of a place to get a high quality Tina knife? Thanks!

Jenny

Hi Jenny,
The only way you'd alter the temper of the steel would be if you over heated it. If the edge changes colour ie goes blue/blackish then your getting it too hot, just quench it in a cup of water before it gets to this stage. If you do cook it then you just need to resharpen it some more 'til this 'blued' edge has gone.
If it's still not holding an edge it could be that the angle isn't right - but this is unlikely given that the original angle is the one you follow when resharpening.

More power to y'awl
T.

Thanks, Tom. The bevel on the knife is so narrow that I honestly can't say if I've maintained the original angle. Is there a way to measure the angle of a bevel that is about 1/16" wide?

Jenny

Mmmm.
Jenny if you put the shoulder of the bevel on a stone (or flat surface) and gently raise your hand but still keeping the knife on the stone, you'll see if you look closely, the water/detergent sort of squish out from under the cutting edge. When that happens that's the angle. When you sharpen the knife you don't want the bevel rounded, it needs to be flat and only on one plane. If you look at the sharpened edge you only want to see one facet.
More power to y'awl
T.

Tom, and anyone who uses a Tina knife...here's a picture of my latest sharpening efforts. I guess the bevel is closer to 1/8 wide. I don't know if the surface past that bevel counts as a secondary bevel, or not, as there's not really a defined shoulder.



Am I doing this completely wrong?

Jenny

Jenny:

Edwin Hale is, as I understand it, representing Colin Barnsley/Woodware Repetitions in the US -- see DW's post of today regarding Baker's leather. I bought some of Colin's knives a couple of years ago, and they sharpen up quite nicely. These could be an alternative to the Tina's. They offer curved and straight/flat (?) knives. You can download a list of their products from Edwin's website. I don't know how long it takes for Edwin to actually get stuff in from Colin. Edwin's website: http://www.haleandco.com/

Also, a few years ago I ordered a Tina insole knife (to cut the feather/holdfast) from some finder/orthopedic supplier in Florida. I don't know if they sell the Tina skiving knives -- the one I got from them was a German knife, not a Tina. If I can dig up the name, I'll post it for you.

Lance,

You are probably referring to Euro International, they are from FL and carry many German products I know someone who ordered Tina knifes through them but it's some time ago. Give them a call but be careful, once they have your number they keep bugging you to buy more of their stuff. Their web site [url=http://www.eurointl.com%20]www.eurointl.com[/url]

Rob

Jenny,
I think this is what's wrong (well, not right)
put the knife on the stone at the desired angle - sort of about where you have it. Then put quite a bit of weight on it and sharpen it so that the bevel is flat ie keep the pressure even and your hands steady to maintain the correct angle.
When the bevel is on the same plain (flat)over its entire area go to the back of the bevel and give that side a few gentle licks to move the feather to the other side. Then turn the knife over and give the first side some more. The beveled side has virtually all the sharpening, you only want to remove the feather from the back edge.

If you do the initial sharpen correctly then you'll feel the feather (a burr) on the back edge. What you're effectivelly doing is bending that feather backwards and forwards until it breads off - sometimes you'll see like a little 'hair' on the stone, that's the feather. Sort of like bending a piece of wire until it breaks.
Stroping the blade only polishes the edge so that it glides through the leather and removes any microscopic burrs.

More power to y'awl
T

Tom, I think you are likely right that the bevel is rounded. It seems like an almost impossible challenge to keep the knife always at the exact same angle when sharpening. I have one of those gadgets for holding a knife or chisel while sharpening, but it won't work for a knife that has to be held at such an extreme angle. Hopefully practice makes perfect.

But I'm still surprised that it seemed I got the knife really sharp, and then it lost the edge so fast. Would a rounded bevel contribute to that effect somehow?

I have a bent blade skiving knife I bought from Euro International. Haven't tried to sharpen that one yet. When I finish destroying the flat Tina knife, maybe I'll work on that one

Thanks, Lance, for the tip on that web site. I'll check it out.

Jenny

Jenny,

once you assume the correct position ie the angle is right, then concentrate on keeping your hands level. Don't raise them as they come back towards you and don't lower them as you reach the end of the stroke away from you.

Start small then increase the length of each stroke as you gain muscle memory and also keep the pressure even.

So that's even pressure and even hand height.

Hold the knife in the right hand (assuming you're right handed)and use this hand to move the knife forwards and backwards. With the index finger and the one next to it of your left hand rest on the knife just above the edge being sharpened, these two fingers supply steady downward pressure. (these hands belong to my 84 yr old dad)


More power to y'awl
T.

Hi, this is the first time I've written though I look at and read the exchanges on this site often. Though I've been doing leather work for a few years my 'shoe experience' is just starting. What I've been looking for are the metal clips used to attach buckles to shoes or other leather goods. You see them all the time on shoes sold in retail. Do any of you know where a person might find them? I appreciate your help. Thanx, Denice Langley

They come up with a great degree of frequency on Ebay, both vintage and new. Search under shoe clips and shoeclips

Denice, not absolutely sure what you are trying to describe, but there are a bunch of Web sites that sell buckles and fasteners.

One is
http://www.ohiotravelbag.com/
I purchased a big fat catalog from them, and what you are looking for might be what they call "fasteners" or rivets.

Some other sites to check out:
http://www.usabuckles.com/fashion-buckles-s.htm
They actually have a link on this page that specifies "buckle clips" although I don't know if they are talking about the same thing.

Also, if you go to shoeinfonet.com, and on the left, go through this series of links:

Componets
Buckles-eyelets
North America
USA

..it gives a listing of companies that sell buckles, eyelets, etc., with e-mail addresses and links to most.

I still haven't found what I'm looking for [img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/sad.gif"%20ALT="sad[/img] , which is a shoe strap buckle that is adjustable--no prong. It always seems like one hole is too tight, and the next is too loose. Some dance shoes come with a type of buckle where the strap doesn't need holes. I don't know what it's called, and I can't find any for sale!

Jenny

Jenny,
If you look on page 162 of your OTB catalogue you'll see slide buckles. The C-30 for example comes in 5/8". Those Military buckles are made to grip webbing and will work on light leather too.

If I were you I'd get lateral - figuratively speaking of course, and think outside the square.
Another option is to use two small squares or dees in the same loop, you then pass the strap point over one square and under the other heading back the way it came. I'd sew a small piece of hook and loop on the strap to hold the end down once it had passed through the squares. If you wanted you could attach a small broach or concho to the leather to hide the dees or square.

More power to y'awl.
T.

PS another option is to use a buckle that you like but sew a small piece of heavy elastic in the strap.

(Message edited by Tomo on September 23, 2006)

Tom,

PS another option is to use a buckle that you like but sew a small piece of heavy elastic in the strap.

That's what we always did when mounting buckles--on women's shoes in particular. With one difference...we always used the elastic itself to mount the buckle. Use it just like a small strap of leather...punch or poke a hole in the middle, feed the buckle tongue through the hole, fold and sew the elastic to the side of the shoe where the buckle wants to be located.

Of course the elastic eventually wears out and needs to be replaced but it takes a year or two and it can make for a really comfortable shoe in the meantime.

BTW, Jenny...sometimes, especially if the leather we are attempting to cut is a very low grade chrome, a certain amount of chrome salts will be present in a raw form as a residue in the leather. This residue will definitely dull your knives before their time.

And remember that the sharper the edge, the faster it gets dull...if only by comparison.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Another thing that will dull a knife rather quickly is hitting it against a tack ...

Jenny

Jenny,

Ooh, I'm exercising some restraint here, but I've been sworn to secrecy.

Let me just say, that happens to the best of us.

PK

No restraint necessary...I can't drive a tack straight half the time either!! What's worse is when I dull my knife on a **bent** tack. So much for the "skilled bootmaker."

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

I've been inspird to try sharpening my knives again, thanks to the pictures. I'm happy to say that I had some success. Thank you Tom!

Next project is to figure out how to apply the same principles to curved knives.

Short on time,

Erick

The maker of Blau ring pegs is
Gottfried Mayer GMBH & Co KG
Holzwarenfabrik
Niederranna 21
A-4085 Wesenufer Austria
Goetz should still carry their pegs. I do not know if Mayer will sell small quantities. They are to my knowledge the only company still making a full line of wood pegs.