The Crispin Colloquy

I don't know about a fairy tale machine, but it sure sounds like a versatile one!

WHat I was getting at was that the lining around the elastic could possibly be sewn on a flat bed, before the back seam was closed, as in my example.

Do you think that would work for this shoe?

BTW,
This elastic, being soo low and cutting across the SH line, from heel to break at the ankle, opens up too much, and allows the foot to slide forward. Placement lower like this might be good for zippers, but it's sure not so good for elastic sided ankle boots like this.

Nasser,
I am using a post bed when closing this style and it works fine. I closed this reindeer boot today with it.

Paul,

I see now what you are doing and something i wanted to avoid if i can and not to resort to a patcher which might be the only way out at least for now.
Gluing and Sewing the top and lining and elastic flat without the back seams on both closed,can be done to a point in the back just above the elastic,Than i can seam the back of lining with my sewing machine,but for the top leather back seam with the finger pull strap sewn on top of it, not enough room for my machine,I for sure need a patcher which i do not have one and not sure i can get a good stitch out of them,but sewing on top of the back strap i can do by hand if it comes to it.Thanks again.

Nasser

Jan,

Thank you,That is good news and it make sense,the materials does not need to go side way in the case of the cylinder machine,but downward the post,I got rid of two post beds for lack of room but maybe time to bring one back in.it will give the other machine some rest.

Regards
Nasser

Nasser,
you are welcome. One thing to think about is that since both the upper, elastic and lining will be stitched at the same time it is important that they are cemented well together becasue there will be some stretching when you are about to reach the top and then turning down, especially on small sizes.

Nasser,

You know which machine was first advertised for sewing the elastic side gores in on new work? Give up? The venerable Singer patcher. When I tried mine it worked fine on double-row. I left the lining whole so the elastic gore wouldn't stretch the open during lasting, and then trimmed the lining back with scissors after slipping the last. You could use a lining-knife or even one of those do-all French-edgers I bet if sharp.

Gentlemen,

Jan, I got you on the well cementing the parts and thanks again for bringing to mind the post machine,but Now I offended Al Saguto for not using the patcher for this job,but Al only if i had your patcher,you must have tweaked that machine somehow to do the job well.

Regards
Nasser

Nasser,
I made a boot like this once, and recommend Al's technique of leaving the lining in so that the elastic will not stretch. But, cut it out along the bottom edge of the elastic, so that you only have to cut the lining straight down on each side of the gore after the boot is finished. I hope this makes sense to you as it will save some frustration later. The other option is to use some non stretching ribbon, and lay two lengths of this over the elastic before sewing the lining, then you can fully cut the lining and just snip the ribbon after your boot is finished.

Good luck with your project.

I made a pair of Congress boots...a Civil War version of the Chelsea...some years ago. I, too, left the lining intact behind the elastic and cut it out after the last was pulled.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Jon,

your point and Al is well taken,The lining will be cut whole in two pieces and only seamed in the back and front,but i am not used to leaving the lining around the elastic untrimmed until i finish the boot,I made many and i trimmed the lining around the elastic and than lasted and they were fine,But i think leaving it and than cutting it is fine too but a little awkward but doable.This is a double elastic side by side,the stretch is very small on the elastic.Master Tony used to say to me in regards to good uppers, "you should be able to last them with your fingers if they are well made".

Nasser

Sorry I missed this conversation. It was a busy week.

I glued the elastic to the outer leather, closed the outer and added the liner. I left the lining untrimmed around the elastic but not whole. I like that idea of leaving it whole but I actually wanted the elastic to stretch so I could get my post machine around the bottom when sewing in the elastic. It was tight but doable.

I'm afraid if the lining was left whole. I would never been able to get the post machine around this difficult and deep elastic shape.

BTW,

These are my favorite shoes right now.
I get lots of ooos and aaahs when I wear them.

Rick,
It is a nice looking boot,you spoke of struggle on the post bed to do the sewing around the elastic,i was shopping for a post machine this morning,in a warehouse with hundreds of sewing machine stacked to the ceiling,i was shown some amazing post machines,look up "Juki post bed machines" Almost a foot long vertical post and thin as your thumb,Never seen any machine like it,even their short post of 7" or less with much narrower post is the one for the job and these Japanese guys got it wright ,Inventing a long enough post machine to do a zippers and elastic or any round shape to the knee. The new ones are 10k a used one is what i can afford if i can find one.

Nasser,

Where were you? Sewing machines stacked to the ceiling? I've always had a romantic idea that I would like to find a free arm machine that was a treadle. Any chance your sewing machine source might have one?

Jon,

The place is called, "General industrial sewing" here is their number 416 504 6666 and they are in NW Toronto,205 Champagne Dr, call them and find out.
Some of them you might speak to do not know all about machines and so forth, make sure they understand your request like treadle,free arm, and if you want roller wheel or something else,all these you want communicated well with the person you speak to before going to see the machine or having them shipped it to you.

Nasser

Jon,

Just remembered another good machine supplier you might want to speak to is "Simard" www.simard.com
they are in Cambridge ON. they are on vacation until August 3.

Here is good link to their site, Michel Simard ltd.

Nasser

After some hard thinking and some trickery and playing with the sequence,I managed to sew the elastic using my good old arm machine,she produced(sewn) many difficult uppers for me in the past and she did it again.

Nasser

Here is a pair of unfinished ankle boots trees i am making out of desperation not finding them available or any one willing to make them,I already do everything in this shop, design, close,last and stitch,These trees were made by the low tech tools you see,I am almost thinking of getting one of them last making(curving) blades Lance was talking about,but i love shoe making and that's all i want to do.
Nasser

Did anyone know how to "bleach" the veg tanned leather back to the light beige colour from yellowish brown colour? Please help and thanks.

Alexander,

I don't know how.

I doubt if Lemon juice would work, but it's good for cleaning iron stains off of veg tan.
I even doubt Oxalic Acid (aka Wood Bleach) would work. It's often used by saddle makers to clean their work before coloring or oiling.
I guess I've never heard of anyone even trying what youre asking about.

However, since Wickett and Craig sells veg tanned leathers in both colors maybe a conversation with them will yield some results.
Their phone number is down in the studio. I can get it if you need it from me.

Good Luck,
Paul

Thanks Paul,

I will try both suggestions.
Anyone else know a trick on this?

Alexander:

I don't know, but a couple of things you could try.

Depending on how much time you have, you could try bleaching them in the sun.

Or, you could try some actual bleach. Foster & Son in London are famous for some of their styles that were originally bleached by being in the shop window for so long, but now I believe they use bleach (presumably mixed with water to reduce its strength) to achieve the same effect. Don't know if it will work, but it might be worth trying on a sample piece of leather.

Lance



(Message edited by lancepryor on August 19, 2010)

Has anyone ever heard of these guys? I came across them tonight, and they have a section of shoe and boot knives. http://www.rmurphyknives.com/store/blades.html
John Lewis

Eddie Kimmel of Kimmel Boots in Comanche, Texas is making and selling horse butt welts. It comes in five colors (unfinished, natural, medium brown, chocolate and black), your choice of hard or soft rolled, and to cut down on waste he offers it in three lengths (16 inches, 20 inches and 24 inches). His phone number is 325-356-3197.