The Crispin Colloquy

Dan,

Hmm, interesting. Thanks.

I said I had never done any split and lift but I misspoke...years ago I made a leather case for one of my treasured fly rods and I did split and lift closing on the end caps. As Paul said, for right angles in heavy leather, it is perfect.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

PS...not shoes (allied trades?)but speaking of seams...when I built my sporrans, I did a variation of round closing that served my purpose quite nicely. I was attaching a piece of three-four ounce soft leather to a piece of what was essentially soling leather and I didn't want any thread or seam showing.

So did an "inseam" on the flesh side of the sole leather cantle. I cut what was fundamentally a "feather" half way through the cantle edge...in a double arch shape...and then stitched the edge of the bag...cut to mirror the double arches of the feather...in what was essentially round closing, to the feather of the cantle. I impressed myself at the simplicity and the elegance of this technique. Very strong and no seam visible.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Something what is considered impossible by some makers: the seamless wholecut. Here is the secret. My next project.
There are some trick to hold the leather in one piece, but I can tell you - nothing impossible.

Marcel,

Very impressive...

What leather is that? Could you do it with a nice firm calf?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Well, this is a quite firm calf. I dont want to introduce this to my rtw line, this is just a bespoke order and some inspiration to my collagues..

Marcell:

I hope you will share with us your secrets to doing this -- I would love someday to be able to give it a try while having some idea of how to do it....

I think they will look superb.

Lance

Just curious, would you gimp and brogue with this leather? That's what I mean when I say "firm."

I second Lance's request...I would dearly love to see how this is done. I guess I could fool around with it in hopes that I got lucky but I can "see" in my minds eye all the problems already. It would be nice to know the general techniques for dealing with those problems.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

No problem. I will post more pictures, as I work on it.

Marcel,

No, no! I want to see how you lasted one piece of leather so closely and so well. I want to know what you did with all the excess that would have been sure to gather around the back of the heel. It boggles the imagination.

I think I could take it from there.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Yes. That is not a big deal from there..

This technique is a quite common one in the hungarian school. You make a big wrinkle, then finish lasting. When you are done, you start over with a tiny lasting plier and pull again all the wrinkles, put a nail just to its center - as you can see the picture. This way no wrinkle will stand beyond the feather edge, all the leather will be tight, so you can even make it sharp with your hammer. Easy, easy..

Marcell
Thank you, I think I see it. You wrap the leather over the top of the last before you cut out and line the shoe: otherwise the topline would be impossible. There is still some knavery--excuse me, skilled shoemaking--here that I don't quite get, though. Well done!

Marcell,

An inspiring project, one might have thought it impossible, but I guess where there's a will there's a way. I hope you'll post photos of the finished shoes.

Marcell,

Amazing!

Thank you,

Larry Peterson

Marcell,

I have to say that this looks incredible. I agree with the others that I would love to see some more detail.

I have not had very much experience lasting shoes, but this makes me want to grab a piece of leather and try this.

I agree with DW that I could see trying any number of sequences until succeeding.

I must finish with saying I am in total awe! I must admit it takes me more tacks to get a normal shoe lasted and the quality is no where near this .

I'm actually excited I have all kinds of fun stuff to learn, though I might lose a few hours sleep thinking about how to achieve this

Terry

This technique is a quite common one in the hungarian school. You make a big wrinkle, then finish lasting. When you are done, you start over with a tiny lasting plier and pull again all the wrinkles, put a nail just to its center - as you can see the picture. This way no wrinkle will stand beyond the feather edge, all the leather will be tight, so you can even make it sharp with your hammer. Easy, easy..

Marcel,

Where do you locate this "big wrinkle?" On the side of the last? Medial side, maybe?

What we need is a photographic sequence--step one, step two, step three, etc.--of you drafting a big flat piece of leather over the top of your last to achieve the results in your photo above. Please!

It's not nice to tease us! [img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/proud.gif"%20ALT=":O[/img]

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Marcell,

Is the direction of stretch important? You've got the wheels turning in a lot of shoemaker's heads.

And is this wet lasted?
Georgene

Wow!

And I agree that the number of nails is somewhat less than I would have expected.
Duncan

When I saw Marcell's seamless wholecut, it drove me crazy. How could this be possible?!? I could not sleep or eat for days. it became clear to me that I had no other choice. I took the first available flight to Budapest and for three days I went to the Koronya workshop early in the morning and begged Marcell to share with me the secret of how to last this. Each time he sent me away. On the fourth day again I begged on my knees for Master Mrsan to share with me his secret. He agreed but only under one condition, that I name my first born son Marcell Koronya Corvin ;-)

It is actually quite simple. All it requires is perfect lasting technique.

(Message edited by corvin on October 11, 2009)

(Message edited by corvin on October 11, 2009)

Craig,

Kudos to you, Craig!! I too have been obsessing about this. I have been busy with boots and haven't gotten up the nerve to try this...although I think I understand the basic principles.

One thing that puzzles me, however...both on your example and Marcel's (and, mind you, I may be way off base here)...is that everything I've learned from 35+ years in this business leads me to believe this is pretty soft leather--the drawdown over and behind the cone; the softness of the pipes on the underside; and the fibrousness of the leather on the fleshside.

That said, I am ready...even eager...to be corrected in this assumption and maybe it is a standard temper for this type of shoe. But I want to see this done with a firm French calf--something like the calf skin that AA Crack or Hardtke carries. I'm even prepared to believe that firm calf isn't the ordinary or best choice for non-brogued shoes. But it confuses me.

Maybe you could clarify...?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Nice job Craig.

Want to feed us any hints besides 'perfect lasting technique'?

So...I'm a very impatient fellow I guess and a new found friend of mine recognizing my weakness sent me some photos and commentary that I wanted to share with all of you.

Rolf Holzapfel of London, England had these shoes made for him. They are a 3½ ounce (plus) crust calf from AA Crack. Rolf supplied the photos.

The first shot is of a trial run made from the shoulder and neck.


The next two are just different angle shots...



The maker soaks the leather in hot water initially and leaves it in the bucket overnight. He pulls it over the last while the leather is very wet.

I hope these illuminate and inspire. They did for me. Thanks Rolf.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

I just tried this with GN buffalo with not good results. I didn't soak overnight but...

Can you tell me, what was the order of pulls generally. Did you go more back to front, front to back or what?