One "Last" Question

[romango]

That is awesome, Jenny!

What were the specific plastic products you used for the mold and last?

[corvin]

Jenny, nice work on the two part mold!

[ridgerunrbunny]

That is quite awesome.

I finally got a pair of last. Commercial ones from Bruce. I've been looking for information on building them up in the search engine but can't make head nor tails of that.

I need some extra room around the gerth of the arch and width at the toes. Could someone give me some quick insight on how a buildup is accomplished and with what? (such as leather, bondo, adhesives)

It would be greatly appreciated.

Bunny

[jenny_fleishman]

Bunny and Rick,

Bunny--another HCC member, Georgene McKim, has a tutorial on her Web site, shoedo.com, about build-ups.

Rick,

I used Vytaflex 40 for the mold. For the lasts I used Smooth-Cast 45D with some Ure-Fil 7 (1 part A, 1 part B, 1 part Ure-Fil 7), and some white tint.

The downside, the mold is still somewhat distortable when casting, and I also used almost $90 of Vytaflex to make the mold, and $50 of materials to make the lasts! Smooth-on also has rubber you can paint on, and then make a shell of another material, which might be more cost effective for the mold. Still percolating some ideas on how to make the whole process better and more cost effective.

Jenny

[hidesmith]

Jenny,
What a beautiful last! How long did it take and how much did it cost you? What I'm getting at - is this something you might be interested in doing on a small commercial basis?

I've also been wanting to contact you about the exercize/therapy glove you demonstrated at the annual meeting. Could you provide the company's information, please?
Thank you,

Bruce

[romango]

You could do the mold with plaster paris. That would be pennies in cost and be rigid. I calculated about $30 per pair in casting with 300Q. (plus about $500 labor!)

[jenny_fleishman]

Rick, I used to do my molds with Durhams or plaster. I found I had to do a 3 piece mold, or I couldn't get the last out (due to the angle of the treadline). Also, the mold tended to leak around the seams. The rubber mold is not perfect, but has only minimal leakage around the seam. Have you tried a plaster of Paris cast with the 300Q? (I assume you're not talking about plaster bandages.)

I do have some ideas for a new procedure. It'll probably take a couple weeks (or months) before I try it, but I think it would save both labor and expense. My most immediate project is to make a pair of shoes, because my last pair of tolerable store-bought shoes are starting to get a crack in the sole across the ball of the foot!

Jenny

[jenny_fleishman]

Bruce, thanks for the compliment on the lasts. Not thinking commercial at this time as I don't have enough time to get my own shoes made! (However, should my employer go out of business I may find myself with more free time [img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/sad.gif"%20ALT="sad[/img])

As for the exercise glove...they sent me one of their new gloves which can be used on both hands (and thus costs more). It also doesn't come with the clinician services, although I don't know that it's really needed.

I had a little problem with the new glove, but they are very accomodating about exchanging it. The fingers were a little tight, and the narrow bands that go around the fingers that the little rings are attached to happened to fall right on my joints, making it hard to bend my fingers (not a good thing). So I'm sending it back and they're going to send me another one to try.

So, I would just say if you buy one to be very observant about how it fits, make sure the bands with the rings are not right around your knuckles, and that the fingers are snug, but not tight. If the glove doesn't fit (you must acquit!), call Robyn and arrange to exchange it.

They also may still have the older model available. If you only need it for one hand, you might be better off with that one. The Web site is www.flextend.com.

I also just ordered another type of glove, and am hoping it's not a scam! The Web site is www.therapyglove.com. I won't try to explain it, but it might be worth checking out.

Jenny

[romango]

No, I haven't tried plaster paris (not bandages) but I know someone who does this to make head busts and I'm pretty sure, if done right, you could avoid leakage, but I an not experienced with this process.

[fred_coencped]

Jenny,Cloning your last is easy with a 2 part mold made from plaster splints they are made with the parting line from front to back.Extra fast setting 5x30 inch plaster splints are available from Moore Medical,tel.#800/234-1464.Use Johnsons baby powder[no starch] or talc for your resist from your original.Close your mold with the same plaster splints for your urethane positive.Silicone gell or spray,saran wrap or even Johnsons paste wax should work for your resist.Naturally the opening is on top,A sand box is useful to hold your mold upright and molding plaster from a building supplier is the way to go ,about $25. for 100lbs.Hope this helps!,1/2round stanley sure form files work great for shaping your last.,OK ,Fred

[jenny_fleishman]

Thanks, Fred. I made casts of my sister's feet using plaster bandages. My reluctance to making a mold of a last that way is the rough surface it leaves. I also want to be able to make multiple lasts from the same mold...

Do you still need help with how to post pictures, or did someone else respond?

Jenny

[romango]

Thanks for those details, Fred. Moore Medical site has a number of interesting products http://www2.mooremedical.com

[jenny_fleishman]

Fred, please check your personal e-mail!
Jenny

[admin]

It may be that Fred's email is not receiving...Admin has emailed Fred several times (the first with instructions regarding posting photos) and has received no response.

Fred, if you are seeing this post, please check your settings and your server.

Emmett

[corvin]

Jenny, another suggestion for a release when working with a plaster mold is "Green Soap" - We used it when I took a bronze casting class some years back to make plaster molds from wax originals, so that should give you an idea of how well it works as a release agent.

[rocketman]

Hey DW and others,
Your discussions on other pages about the museum and the HCC collection got me thinking about lasts. Not that a collection would be without them but on a more utilitarian issue. I'm sure this has come up before but what if the HCC started a lending library of lasts that could be sent out one by one to a requester for copying, assuming there would be no intellectual property issues, and sent back. I know there would be a bunch of logistical issues to be worked out but in the end, I think that might help the small shoe/boot maker out the most because we can't all buy a complete set of pro lasts for each of the "weird" toe shapes and heel sizes. We could maybe establish a data base of who has each kind of last and maybe the library could be virtual and then requested from individuals rather than a warehouse. The idea would only work if you didn't add or subtract the original thus thinking that it would be copyied for a one off shoe/boot. Just throwing this out for discussion.
Not looking for action here, just some thoughts. Lyle

[dw]

Lyle,

I think the idea is a good one...especially in the wake of my recent (and ongoing) obsession with shoe lasts.

But I am afraid that barring some sort of sea change in thinking about this--going against a tide of literally centuries--it would be hard to implement. The reason is that shoemakers, and bootmakers too, tend to very proprietary feelings about their lasts.

I have been fortunate in having friends and contacts who will occasionally make an exception but I have also contacted a number of respected shoemakers who cannot (sometimes for reasons that go beyond their own personal druthers), or will not, share even model numbers much less the last itself. I have to plead guilty to this myself also, though my last models are available to the public, if not identified as such.

On one hand you can understand the reluctance--esp. among bespoke makers, lasts are often carved individually and by hand and are the result of years and years of experience and accumulated wisdom. (Of course lasts from such makers are the ones we all really want to see and "borrow." )

But perhaps even more importantly, such lasts are not codified in any way. No model numbers, no real "model" per se. What's more, in such cases, the fundamental understandings as well as the shape of lasts themselves are almost certainly evolving as the maker refines his "eye" and his work.

Having said all, that I would guess that such a last library would be pretty basic...don't get me wrong, no less informative for all of that...but, maybe not really much more accessible than consulting a last maker such as Tippitt.

On the other hand, even sea changes have to start somewhere and this is a good idea on its merits, in my opinion.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[hidesmith]

A last lending library is a great idea! How would it work? Here are some ideas and thoughts.

The collection can't be in one place - owners will not be willing to be without our lasts. Perhaps the "collection" is made up of photographs of the available lasts, with each style photographed from all the necessary angles. When lasts are borrowed, the style owner sends the requested size, and the rest runs like a regular book library. It would need to be managed, though.

If there is a fee involved, perhaps it could go toward increasing the collection or streamlining the process.

These are just thoughts, subject to change, revision or dismissing.

Bruce Graham

[das]

Bruce,

A central last "lending-library" would be neat, but as DW has said, most/many makers are very guarded about their lasts. By default Bill Tippit has acquired quite a virtual "library' of last models already, many from guild members, and some/many(?) of these are already available to anyone who comes along with proper permissions. Aren't there virtual graphics of these from all angles on OLGA?

Bill Tippit might know better, but the last time I enquired, a custom last model, designed from scratch, from the now defunct Sterling Last Corp, in the later 1990s cost around $1,700! That's pre-production, just to create it.

[btippit]

To all:

I have to be very careful when posting on this or any other subject. Why? First, I don't like posting when I've got a backlog of lasts. I know I wouldn't want to be waiting past a reasonable time for MY order to arrive and see the guy who's supposed to be making it posting numerous times when he could be making my lasts. So I take a quick look at this and a couple of other websites while I'm having breakfast in the morning and post when I think I have something of value to add.

Second, I don't want to come across as being offended or threatened by the idea of a community of boot and shoe makers sharing their lasts with each other because I'm not threatened at all. I will never retire on the money I make on custom lasts. Hell, I probably won't ever be able to retire on ANY of the money I make but that's another story.

However, I did want to make a couple of quick comments:

1) Lyle had started this idea off with a post that included the comment that said "because we can't all buy a complete set of pro lasts for each of the 'weird' toe shapes and heel sizes". I just want to be sure everyone knows that size runs are not necessary when you buy lasts from Global Footwear Solutions, in fact they are discouraged because the price per pair must stay the same and I don't see the wisdom in having all of that money sitting on the shelf waiting for someone to come in that needs every size until you've got a VERY established business going.

2) The observations that have been made about some makers not wanting to share some of their styles is a good one. Another byproduct might be hurt feelings and damaged friendships if something happens to a last that was borrowed. And "FIT happens" so that would be a concern if I were lending or borrowing a last.

3) I know sometimes the time you have to wait for a last to be produced is longer than you have but I can assure you it's getting much better and the more people start registering and USING OLGA, the better it will get. Also, the earlier you can order a last, the earlier it will arrive.

I'm not sure what the other last maker in the USA charges now for a fully customized last model or just to develop a new style so I won't comment on that. Al's old Sterling price sounds about right. Global Footwear Solutions was about half of that but I really try not to offer that service anymore.

So, those are my comments. If a group decides to undertake this I would STRONGLY recommend you way the pros and cons of reinventing the wheel when there are single pairs available for purchase where sizes can be selected using the measurements of your customers' feet.

OK, now this is starting to sound like a sales pitch when, really, it's just an observation so....back to work.

Bill “The Last Man Standingâ€

[hidesmith]

Ignorance prompted my to write my thoughts, and ignorance prompts me to continue doing so.
What are the copyright laws like when it comes to lasts? Are there any lasts worth using that are out of copyright? Is there any interest in pursuing this idea, or is it too far out there?

Bruce

[hidesmith]

Bill,
It sounds like I'm trying to reinvent the wheel, but I have a question - what the heck is a "wheel"?
I warned of ignorance, and that seems sometimes to be the ONE thing I'm master of. I don't know what OLGA is, or how to find it. I thought Lyle had a good idea. I dunno.
I'm gonna go pout for a while.

Bruce

[rocketman]

Bill, sorry, I didn't mean to step on OLGA. I think that it is really the answer but I was really thinking of the beginners among us. I being one am still learning and don't have the investment to risk on experiments until I have much more experience under my belt so this is a little more though on the idea. Lets say that some of the makers have a large inventory of lasts, some old and probably in the category of learners lasts. If there was an online inventory of lasts that makers were willing to risk they could be made available basically in the service of the Guild to help educate. It would be strictly voluntary and a promise of using the library would be in the realm of learning rather than extra profit margin. I know that I need to pay dues to the HCC now so that I'm not thought of as a leach. Anyway, this was food for thought and thanks for the discussions. Lyle

[big_larry]

If I may,

I like the idea of being able to borrow a pair of lasts. I have several complete runs in different boot styles and if my bootmaker friend that lives 20 miles from me, wanted to borrow a pair for a special customer or a one time fitting, I would have no problem lending them. I can drive over and get them back if he is slow returning then.

On the other hand, just looking at the lasts I have used, they have been modified by leather patches and modelers epoxy clay. I know it may be a bit offensive to some but I have even ground a bit of last material to get them just right, especially after the fitter boot is tried out.

I keep the last pretty much ready for the next order and I would rather order a new last rather than destroy my fitting modifications. So, as I muddle my way along, It is my thinking, at this point in time, that I could support a lending library to the extent of donating some lasts that I probably will not use much, but the ones I am using for family menbers and repeat customers (and pretty girls at the local cafe)will have to remain with me here at the boot shop. I work on about 4 or 5 pair at a time to better utilize gluing and crimping time and to keep from being bored. I really need the last right when I need it!

I really like to help folks and I have struggled with the lending-library concept. I think I will just add a bit to the total boot price and purchase a new pair of lasts when necessary. This is just one man's opinion and I in no way want to discourage any one from persuing this goal.

Larry Peterson

[btippit]

Lyle, you've got NO reason to be sorry and you didn't step on OLGA (she wears steel toes anyway). I really am not trying to shoot down the communal last idea. My only purpose for posting was to point out that lasts can be purchased in single pairs and full runs are not necessary. I also wanted to add my thoughts on things that might make the sharing idea put a strain on relationships and to answer Al's question about model costs.

Bruce, OLGA is an Online Last Grading Application that is now available for use on my website to let makers select a last style and then input their customer's foot measurements in order to select the best size for that customer. It also shows you how much modification you will need to make on each of the 9 fit points you can query. I'll send you a log-in and password so you can try it out.

Larry, I think your post sort of sums up the pros and cons of the last sharing idea. Some will share all...some will share only what they don't really care about...what happens if a guy decided he needs to grind a little off a size 10EE and then tries to return it to the owner who now has no idea what it was supposed to measure in that area or for that matter what the shape was supposed to be. Kind of like being in business with a close friend or relative. It can be great until there's a problem.

Bill “The Last Man Standingâ€