The Crispin Colloquy

Larry,

Jake Dobbins had an excellent write-up on inlays a while back. A search can probably find it. A piece of plate glass is a critical tool for me doing inlays: for skiving and you can turn it over to see what the front side looks like. If you find a good tool to remove that last little speck of glue, let me know.
Good luck, Chuck

OOPS, Lance beat me to it.

Chuck

Huh? Did somebody say my name? Ok, you asked for it....'cause I'm faux of it,(I mean full of it.)

Larry, student to student, I think you've got the right attitude. Following those detailed instructions closely, (and Jake's presentation) will give you the best results. And let me say why. Not the faux why, but the real why. And that's what matters here. Because there is no right and wrong, but there is good, better, best. And this is how you get there.

How well you do at each of these steps, affects how well you'll do on each successive step. And then, ultimately how it survives the turning and treeing processes. As you already know, this puts the tops "thru the wringer" literally. Cutouts and close to the edge stitches, can suffer from the process, especially of turning, if you should stray much at all from these finesse steps. I've learned this the hard way. It doesn't help to think, "it'll be ok", or "maybe I can glue it".

A couple of "crans";
I've done a better job of hiding my "inlay" leather by using a pinking shears after the 'full skive to a feather'.
And I've used my finger to pick out the last bits of glue because it get lots of practice pickin'. But I also use a blunt end modeling tool.
And I've found a ball modeler, around the edge of the cutout from the flesh side, coaxes the inlay leather to the best level on the surface. Then you can just drop in your plug, as Jake demos.

Something I've brought to bootmaking from my leather craft instruction is a desire for good edges. I think flesh edges, especially chrome tanned leather really need some attention.

But there are times when exceptions to the rule might be appropriate. One might want the effect of a vine coming out of a hole. This is often seen in Western Floral. On such a design done as an inlay, rather than leave the flesh at the cutout edge untreated, why not thin it a little with your skive knife,(if necessary), and color it with an acrylic edge coat or coloring to some kind, and laying back the fibers of the leather, to enhance this effect?

Maybe even, to further enhance with a shadow in such a hole, on a light colored leather cutout, one might choose to go ahead and stitch close to the edge on the inlay leather itself. Like a shadow, kinda. It wouldn't be "wrong", would it?

These are edge treatments that some choose to settle for in their inlay work in general, as DW mentioned. It's makes for a good job, even a better job, But the "remarkable" work, the best job if you will, results from close attention to each and every one of these details. And it shows. And will for many many years to come.

Have fun, good luck, and hold on tight. It's test of character, believe me. But it builds it too.
That's the beauty part.

Paul

Oh, that's "foxing", as in 3/4 wingtips and heel scabs, with or without inlays. How far back does that term go anyway?

Friends,

I have read Jake's presentation and I now plan to do practice pieces. I usually just jump in and "do it." I have found Ron's and will get the "Frommer skiver." I think Jake's pictures and D.W.'s very clear explanation are my perfect answer. Paul, Chuck, and Lance Thank you! This has been a wonderful experience and after I complete my first inlays I promise to put a picture on the forum, even if they don't quite measure up.

Again, thank you all for the wonderful help.

Your humble student, Larry Peterson

Gee guys
Even with doing a very few inlays but to my luck, never on the vamp just the shaft and quarters on my baby boot I make for my friends first child.

I never would have fiqured out to back the inlay with the plug? Obvoius as hell but no when ever mentioned the technique! So I thank the HCC for the information. And preventing a new grey hair or three.

The only other thing I might mention to make an edge a bit easier to work with and avoid the fuzzies is gently heat the edge but not charring it. And I have used similar color polish just on the edge before heating and this makes a nice clean edge witch cements well if you don't get sloppy with the polish. Didn't even think of acrylic or even a brighter color polish! HMMM

When I was sewing the Tabis the needle hole on the foot plate was getting to big with wear so I put a thin pice of firm paper and a piece of packing tape and peireced it with the needle and closing the hole to the smallest possible size sure made it easier to keep the sewing line parellel to the edge.

Regards
Brendan

Paul, Brendan, Larry:
Are y'all, talking about a 'cookie cutter (translate to clicker) type affair which makes a hole in the base leather and has an insert of another leather, to be set in the hole ie. it fits yet looks likeit belongs?
If so, this is an old bookbinding inset technique. I have read about, yet never tried the set to 'zero' remake the needle to a chisel technique. I think DW invented that (?)
I use a paper patern, well shellaced, or a cut out brass pattern and cut out with a fine point knife. and set it to the lining. Then I insert the 'plug' (no exacto blade DW so ya don't have to wallop me upside the melon). All my linings are pasted with warm wheat paste (wallpaper glue)which gives 'spreadability'. I let it set and its easy to wipe down. Second, when set I stitch a mouse whisker to the edge of the plug and the cookie cutter hole. Perhaps this is not as perfect as y'all suggest, but I never have a mouse whisker gap. I find that a domestic machine with a tiny leather needle does the trick for such inlays.

Hope this helps. Its 18808 advice.

JesseLee

This company has made 50 styles of shoes with adjustable heel heights. Very hard to believe it actually works. The toe spring must be huge when you lower the heel height.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/BeautySecrets/story?id=5032895&page=1

Jenny

Hi Jenny
Thanks for the post. I looked at it and started to scratch my head. Didn't quite bleed but? does this not go agains't the principles? I can see great potential for shin splints or knee insability or planter fasicitis. If I am wrong please tell me!

Years ago an old fellow had a patent for a shoe with a switchable sole. He didn't quite have the fine points down and almost drove me nuts. Wanted me to make prototypes for future shares in the great corporation. He wouldn't even come in to see how a shoe was made to understand the process. He finally went away but would still pop up once in while to see if I got it done. Asked for some cash for materials and didn't see him again.

I wonder how long this concept will last? how do you put a new lift on the short heel part?

If any out there has bought some I would like to see what they think.

Regards
Brendan

I have a few questions about materials that Nasser was using durring his seminar.

What kind of thread was he using?
Where do you purchase the thread?
What kind of wax and where do you purchase it?
and finally where can you get the bees wax?

Thank you for everyone that I met last weekend making me feel welcome. I had a great time and look forward to next years meeting.

Colin

Colin,

I have moved your question here...

Emmett

Colin,

First i want to say, it was nice meeting you in Guthrie,it is always good news to see new blood taking on the trade as some of us getting older and as tradition of the trade, we are obliged to help journeymen shoe/boot makers for seven years to set up shop, make supplies connection and learn the trade from, i guess it is competition after that.
In regard to the thread questions, i had on the table some hemp thread which is used for inseaming, i prefer to use linen on the inseam and out, the other threads, one NO 8 natural finish linen which i bought from Mike Masyolok on ebay, the waxes were bees wax you may find in art supply stores or shoe findings stores, the sticky wax was SELLARI'S STITCHING WAX and Lisa had some of it, with caution, here is how i make the wax, i put the wax in a bowl and heat slowly to melt the wax, add few drops of cooking oil(no more than tea spoon),bring to boil on slow heat, have a bucket of water near by to pour the boiling wax into, carefully gather the wax in the bucket into a round ball,remember the wax remain hot even in the water, while the wax still soft in the water, start taking some handful pieces until it's all gone, out of the pound cake of the STITCHING WAX you will get 10 or more pieces of wax.
I hope that was of some help.

Nasser

Colin:

If you search this forum, you will find a series of discussions about and formulas for making the shoemaker's wax (a.k.a. 'coad'). Also, you can find quite a bit of discussion of the hemp thread, which is Acadia brand and is from something like 1950! Mike also sometimes has some other thread like that referenced by Nasser.

Lance

I hope it will not be amiss if I add two cents here...

As I rrecall...Nasser was using #10 linen yarn. Quality linen yarn is very hard to find and recently all the top tier linen mills in Ireland have been closing down at a prodigious rate. I would be surprised if there were any still operating at all.

All natural yarns/cordage are comprised of fibers, sometimes called the "staple." In newer linen yarns those fibers are quite short...making the resulting yarn weak. In pre-spun stitcher cord, the staples is probably less than one inch long.

The wax Nasser was using was a hot melt wax, sometimes called Atom Wax (although Atom Wax was actually just a brand name) that, once upon a time, was commonly used in curved needle stitchers...the wax pots had heating elements and each morning the machine had to be turned on and allowed to melt the wax before it could be used.

Beeswax is readily available at any finder/grindery, and various places on the Internet that deal with bees and so forth. Google beeswax. But it is to be recommended that you ask specifically for natural beeswax. Some beeswax is either wholly or in part synthetic wax that is derived from petro-chemicals...which will weaken natural fibers.

Nasser found an individual on EBay that has a stash of vintage yarn. That individual may still have some available for sale, you can contact Nasser by clicking on his username (in green) at the top of any post he has made. This will take to to a user profile which contains an email address/link.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Colin,

I just saw a box of 15 balls vintage 1953 BLACKSTAFF'S LINEN THREAD #8 WHICH I USE AND LIKE,it has a silky finish even when it is dyed and inked, i think there are two bidders so far and the price is $36.89 buy it and remember he(Mike) will sometimes sells to the 2nd and 3rd bidders.

Nasser,

I am the one actually that has bid on them. I found them earlier today.

Colin,

it is good to see,you're on it dude, all you need now is some pure bees wax and some sticky stitching wax,DW, is correct, it is used on old Landis stitchers, it is pure Norfolk pine sap, i chew on it, like chewing gum, try it.

Nasser

Have you had a chance to use the Blackstaff's? How well does it work?

Hand-Leather
This might be of interest to those who are taking to hand sewing, which makes the Hand-Leather indispensable to pull the stitches tight,now for years i made hand-leather the way my teacher showed me, the one on the left in the picture,but the leather below the thumb hole always curls in as you see in the picture and annoyed me,but couldn't solve this issue until recently when i saw a description of how to make one in the book which says to snip around the thumb hole and when i made new one and snipped around the thumb hole, the issue was solved and the leather round the hole now curls outward instead of inward.
To the new hand sewers, please keep the awl away from the direction of you FACE during sewing/stitching in case the thread breaks, it is best to pull the thread horizontal with the floor and away from the direction of your face.

Nasser Vies
HCC-member

Shank cover questions...Is it best to put a leather shank cover on with the grain side toward, or away from, the shank and insole?

Is there any special way to get the shank cover to conform to the irregularity of the surface of the shank, insole and lasting margin? For instance, do you apply it wet?

Jenny

Jenny

Apply your shank cover with the grain side against the shank. I first roughen the grain side and apply a coat of thinned cement, then I most often wet them and put them to case overnite. I then cement the shank area and the shank cover and using a jack strap to pull down on it I pound it down to make it conform to the shank. Then I carve or grind it to shape. Just the way I do it, not necesssarily the correct way.

Don

Thanks Don. One concern I have is that I don't think I have any leather thick enough, particularly after pounding, to come up to the thickness of the lasting margin of the upper. The margin is particularly thick at the back of the heel because of the backstrap. even though I skived the backstrap below the featherline before I applied it. Is it unheard of to use two layers of leather for the shank cover?

Jenny

Jenny

I make my shank covers from the less firm portion of a sole bend. I have also used old pieces of saddle skirt or fenders that I keep around for that purpose. I wish I could see what you are doing, I might be able to be of more help.

Don

I recently used a split from insole shoulder. It seemed perfect for the task. It was easily formed and easily skived and sanded.

I don't think you have a splitter, Jenny, so this probably doesn't help you.

But I'm always glad to find a use for otherwise discard material.

Before I get back to the boots on the bench, I've been wanting to share this little presentation with the group.

But I've got to say first, it sure is easier to say you're gonna do something, than it is to actually do it. Especially, if you've been talking about it for a long time. Just getting started can be the hardest part.
I've been wanting to follow the lead of others on this site who have shared how a procedure was accomplished. And this is my first attemp at what I'm calling a "How I", rather than a "How to".

And by way of further introduction, this pair of boots is a lesson in communication. It's one of those pairs I shared pictures of in February.

You see, what happened was the customer was just crushed at the choice I made of placement, of his choice of a half quill vamp for his custom boot order. He was having two inlays placed at the lower half of his medial side quarters. And I just decided that if he was wanting to look at his 10X Stetson Hat retirement gift inlay, and his inlayed initials when his leg was crossed, I'd just go ahead and put the quill pattern that way too.

That first picture above, shows how the boots looked when I called the customer to see what I'd done so far. I think I had an idea it wouldn't pass. When he came to try them on and see them, he said the bare area over the cuboid area there, looked so bare his foot hurt to look at it. It was kind of a stretch to be too sympathetic, but I acknowledged my blame right away.

I realized it was going to require a revamp to come out of this feeling good about myself, and making the customer feel taken care of.

I'd never actually done a complete revamp, or refoot before. But I'd done many similar procedures remodeling boots for repair over the years. I knew I could get it done in just a few days.

This is the boots in stage one brake down. I've picked all the old stitches, and isolated all the parts. It was going to mean a new pair of soles. I was upset about that. There's not alot of that Belgian soleing leather around now days.