The Crispin Colloquy

Thanks D.W.,
That would be great if its that simple, I'llgive it a try!

Courtney

Hi all,

Well, now have a garage full of machinery. Two Pfaff flat beds, a 236W100 post bed and a 236W111 post bed with a built in lining trimmer, a 29k58, a Marshall bell skiver, a 45k21, a Dania 5-in-1 ranger, and a sole conditioner.

That's not counting the Pearson A1, The 1877 UFA, the crank splitter, or the two SD-28s upstairs (or the almost 20 domestic treadles and hand cranks, but they're a different story).

All of them need cleaning and oiling and most of them need timing. A couple need tearing down repainting and rebuilding. At this rate I don't know if I'm ever going to make shoes -- I'm going to spend so much time on the machines!

Anyway, having been fairly deep in sewing machine restoration land for a while now and having read all kinds of dos and don'ts, I'm wondering what people here use to oil their machines.

I've seen suggestions ranging from lightweight paraffin oil to hi-tech synthetics with teflon added, to Shell hydraulic fluid, to (shock!) sewing machine oil Some people say never oil gears, only grease them, other's say the opposite.

The only consistent advice has been to stay away from 3-in-1 or anything else with detergent because the detergents in them will saponify and solidify the oil over time, gunging up the machine.

So, what should I be looking for for oiling heads, and what do I do with clutch motors? Do they get oiled or greased or left alone?

Thanks.

Alasdair,

I use non-detergent 30-W motor oil for older heads. The detergent causes the oil to foam and bubble up out of the oiling ports at operating speeds. Your 236W and Pfaff probably need lighter "sewing machine oil" because they have a central reservoir of oil that needs to be thin enough to circulate all through the head, so 30-W would be too heavy. Also, they have several drive belts in there, which need a good cleaning and liberal painting (both sides) with rubber "belt dressing" (try automotive supply). Keep the oil off of the belts. This will quiet the heads down considerably and make them a lot more speed-sensitive--no just "stop" and "full speed", which the 236s are notorious for. I like general purpose, black, auto wheel bearing grease for gears--it's "clean", stays soft, clings to parts, and is easily applied out of the tin with a long Popsicle stick/coffee stir stick.

Motors can be cleaned with "electric parts/motor cleaner" aerosol spray (do this outdoors!). Be sure to pick all the dried grease out of all the oil-grease nipples with a wire. I used a grease gun on mine, but a member posted a while back that some of these motor "grease" fittings actually need oil instead of grease. Check the archives.

Thanks Al.

I've got a spraycan of belt dressing, but I'm going to need to actually replace the under drive belt and the upper feed belt. Any ideas where I might find replacements? I have the originals so I can measure them and go hunting but they're falling apart.

Thanks for the hint on grease. I'll grab a can of that and a litre of light mineral oil.

The motors seem to be in reasonably good condition. The one I got with the 236s took a good few minutes to spin down after I turned it off and runs smooth and quiet which I take to be a good sign.

Has anyone tried the hollow polyurethane drive belt material McMaster Carr sells for driving industrial heads? The smaller diameters are great for treadles (I'm going to use it for my patchers) and I'm wondering if the big stuff would be good for motorised heads too.

Cheers.

Alasdair,

I got a spare rubber belt set for my 236W100 from Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines last year. These are "seamless" rubber belts, not horribly expensive. The manual (pdf.) gives you the parts number for them. The 236 class is relatively "modern" compared to the rest we enjoy playing with--they were introduced in the 1950s, so parts are not quite so hard to find.

Run the motor for about 5 minutes and then feel the casing. It should be warm but not too hot top touch. If so you have a bearing problem. Also many motor problems will not show up until you put a load on it, like a machine head.

I tried the cut-to-length blue poly tubing round belting, with metal connector-plug, for the bobbin winder on my Landis 12-L only until I found a source for good round leather belting (Try Bob Kovar again). Aesthetically I prefer the leather belting, especially for restoring older machines. DW taught me a long time ago that leather belting is good, too, because a little bit of slipping is desirable, especially if you want to slow a head down by "hand-braking" the flywheel while you're sewing. The 236 might require a "fractional horsepower" rubber belt stapled shut though. Adjusting the clutch's "grab" effect at the motor, as well as good dressed rubber belts inside the head mitigate the "take of at full speed" phenomenon of these

I use Roundthane yellow tubing with metal connectors on my 236 and it works great for me. I wouldn't use anything else for my setup. You have to make it tighter than you might think and you can't let it slip because it burns/melts if it slips. I probably would NOT use it except that I have a servo-motor and I can set any speed from a slow crawl to super fast. I like no slippage for this setup. For a regular clutch motor I still use leather.
Tom

A bit late on my part, but thanks Al and Thomas for your replies.

I've just moved house. Boy do you get a rude reminder of how much machinery you have when you have to pick it all up and load it into a trailer. It's even worse when none of them are actually working yet! I have quite the queue of things to rebuild, but I'll get there and it gives me something to do while I'm saving up for lasts and books.

I've a question about machines with servo controlled 'bells & whistles' like auto-backtack, thread cutters & suchlikes.

Obviously these features make a big difference to production machinists, but are any of them actually useful to small-scale production, or are they just more to go wrong with the machine?

I'm thinking mostly of back-tacking here, since none of the machines I have lined up to do closing with have reverse on them. How do you get around that - just put the needle down and swing the part around to sew back up the seam?

I ask because I have a line on a couple of roller foot Juki machines -- one post and one flat bed -- that are a lot newer than the old Pfaff and Singers I have, and which will require substantially less work to get running.

The thing is they both have electronically controlled servo motors and seem a lot more complex than the older machines, while still being quite dated equipment (I'm guessing maybe late 90's but I have no real idea) I could buy them for not a lot more than I could on-sell the older machines for once I've refurbished them but I can take a 236 apart and figure out what's wrong with it, whereas with one of these I might be able to do that with the head but if the electronics under the bench stop working I'm completely lost.

Cheers.

Alasdair

You just sew 3 stitches when you start and then lift the foot with the needle poised to enter the material for the next stitch, pull back to the beginning and put the needle in the first hole again, let go of the threads and sew to the other end where you stop after the last thread when the needle is coming down again, pull back 3 stitches and put the needle in the existing hole and sew to the end again. That locks it.

Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com

Thanks Tim. Presumably you just trim off the loops of thread formed by that process?

Alasdair

with the needle already going down the thread pulls through when you move the work, you only move it the three holes and there is no looping.

I was taught that in college and that's apparently what closers in factories did as the none of the 31ks that I used had reverse.

Tim

Tim,

I suppose a "loop" is not the word but, pulling back from stitch 3 to 1 creates a double length stitch.

In many places, this is not something visible.

I'd never really thought about the pull back being exactly a 3 stitches, thus minimizing the "loop".

Thanks for the insight!

- Rick

Rick

You won't notice the unstitched area as you go back over it anyway. 3 stitches is normally enough.

Tim

I am the proud new owner of a free singer 31-20! I got it off craigslist and it still has all the decals and oil lettering!

It has a different motor than my other one and when you first start slowly sewing it kind of stutters as the brake lifts away from the wheel on the motor,

my other one doesnt do that, is there anything I could do to stop this?

the motor runs fine and smooth but when I first turn it on it makes a zorch kind of noise and I can see a spark. if I turn it off and back on while its still spining it doesnt do this.

Is that bad?

Courtney

Courtney congrates on the new baby.

Motor turns on with spark. depend how old might need new starter contatcs or a good cleaning. You can file the contacts flat again, if you are careful.

The clutch. Sounds like dirt or perhaps a stray thread wrapped around a pulley or shaft. Again a good cleaning,are the clutch pads greasy from oil or the machine dripping on the clutch.?

Regards
Brendan

Thanks Brendon, is there any kind of manual for doing that kind of stuff?

I guess to clean it you have to remove the motor and disassemble it?

Courtney

I dont think it actually the clutch {I guess that would be the two wheels tha engage each other}

I think it has somthing to do with the brake pad that ataches to the foot pedal and butts up against the metal pulley wheel?

Courtney

Hi All,
I'm hoping for some help with my Singer 136.
I haven't sewn with it for months... I think the machine is being tempermental due to neglect[img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/sad.gif"%20ALT="sad[/img]
For whatever reason, I can't seem to get the needle to pick up the bobbin thread.
Any suggestions on what I could be doing wrong?
I'm getting dizzy watching the hook go around and then not pick up the thread.

I've come to the conclusion that the timing is WAY off. A friend told me that there is a technician around the corner. He is available to fix it this afternoon. LUCKY! I've decided to watch closely so I can see how to remedy this problem myself in the future...
Sean

Sean,

Yeah, if I recall correctly, the shuttle is attached to a drive shaft and it can be easily put inserted 180° from its proper position. The machine and the shuttle will rotate perfectly fine but the shuttle hook will always be directly opposite the needle just when it should be picking up the thread.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW,

Yeah, that was pretty much the situation. The shuttle was rotating fine but the hook was not lining up with the needle. It didn't seem to be 180 degrees though... I think the drive slipped a few teeth in the gear causing the mal-alignment. It was a matter of loosening two screws and rotating the gear until the shuttle hook lined up in the correct position with the needle. Then re tightening the screws. Last time I used the machine I was doing a velcro modification to a pair of shoes. I think the self adhesive backing gummed up the needle and threw the timing off. I'll use the non-glued velcro next time I guess!
I'd rather work on this thing myself next time when I don't have a time constraint. Still, its nice to know that I have someone local to help out if I get really stuck.

Sean

All

Just came into posession of a Junker and Ruh. Its a great little machine. Being a first for me I wonder about other presser feet and plates with a guide and stuff like that. Anyone know this stuff?

Cheers,

JesseLee

Al
You mentioned something about a Junker and Ruh machine. Do you have one? I need to source out some needles in size 8 so I can sew with #7 Barbours linen cord. Any idea where I can get such an animal?

Cheers,

JesseLee

JesseLee, I might be able to sort you out with a couple. Drop me an email - silver at where dot else dot net dot nz

Feet and needle plates are pretty hard to come by, if anyone can get them for you it'll be Henry Veenhoven who has a profile on this forum. He rebuilds these machines and has probably forgotten more about how they work and where to source parts for them than most people know.