The Crispin Colloquy

Rob, Bill,

Thanks to both of you for clearing that up. Maybe I got "comb" from Al as well and just took it out of context.

So Bill, if you wanted to refer to the upper portion of the heel area of the last--where the thimble is located and where the hole for pulling the last is located (the area that corresponds to the Achilles tendon on the foot)--what would you call that area?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

"Mr. Bill",

"Ooouuuu noooo...it's Mr. Sluggo...."--sorry, I couldn't resist

Ahem, yes, on a more serious note--"comb lasts" is the old term for the solid one-pice wooden lasts used with added shovers, instep leathers, and fittings. I think Reee (1813) was the first to make this distinction, using the term to differentiate these from the two-piece "block" (scoop-block) lasts that were new in his day.

All through the 19thc. (& 20th) the Brits called the one-pice lasts "comb", and the two-piece "block", as in our "scoop-block"

Now, as to what part of the last's (solid, block, or hinged) anatomy is the "comb", it seems usually to refer to what Bill calls the "island", the highest part of the back, behind the highest part of the instep. I also have heard it used to refer to the crest down the instep of the last, as we say "inside cone", others say "inside comb", as if it's the crest ridge.

Anyway, "comb-lasts" are one thing, and the "comb" of any last is another as far as I can figure, and all types of lasts can have a "comnb", even non "comb lasts".

Hey Sluggo! Seems like your appearances here are getting almost as rare as mine. And thanks for answering the other question for me. I was indeed going to suggest that the area behind the "cone" and on top of the last (basically the flat surface the thimble is in) was what I called an island and might be the missing comb. Of course if you turn the last upside down it's a "comb over" but I'm not old enough to need that yet.

Bill “The Last Man Standingâ€

All,

This morning in my way into town and before I saw Al's post I was thinking more along the lines of languages and the way they evolve to explain "comb". In Dutch the narrow top part of the last translates literary to "comb", the Dutch word for "cone" is not associated with shoe lasts. I believe in German it's the same but it's been a long time since I spoke German so someone else may be able to reject or confirm that.
As language evolves and shoemakers of different background, training and possible countries come together new words are introduced and old words may get new meaning.
I can only imagine that during colonial times many countries tried to get a grip on the world by transplanting their culture, once one concurring force left the next one was ready to impose it's culture. With that came their cordwainers who at times were left behind when the army went home.
I have no hard evidence for this theory and based on Al's post I may be way off but wanted to put this thought out there for comments.

My
Rob

Rob,

Definitely a possibility. I'm in a hotel right now watching Brian Regan on Comedy Central and he's trying to figure out how we got words like "Hoot" and "Bow Wow" for the sounds owls and dogs make when they've obviously never articulated those sounds. However, I'm going to go with a more visual theory. If you could slice the "cone" of a last off (much like the removable piece on a scoop block last only in a straight, not curved line) and then hold it up to a mirror with the cut surface on the glass you'd pretty much be looking at a model of an ice cream "cone".

Great. Now I'm hungry again.

Bill “The Last Man Standingâ€

Hey Bill,

Yup, life's taking it's toll....busier than I was before with new shop, etc., which sure beats the alternative I guess.

Rob may be onto something there, but all I'd add is that before the introduction of 2-piece scoop block lasts c.1800 (plenty from 1825 onwards) there was no need to distinguish--all lasts were "lasts", i.e. 1-piece "comb" lasts used with instep leathers, shovers, and wooden wedges ["a more and a lesser"] for variable adjustment, easy extraction, and the 2-piece effect, with a few noteable exceptions, e.g. Roman multi-piece wood lasts from Mainz 1st or 2nd c. AD

Pictures, but no questions for a change. In spite of others saying they haven't had problems with the two pieces of a homemade last shifting during lasting, I did have some problems with it. So, I came up with this solution, which works quite well. After starting each cut, I stop and drill a hole (or holes) to attach short pieces of wooden dowel rod. I glue cardboard to fill the gap left by the saw blade, and them glue the pieces of dowel in.


After bolting the last together, I file down the dowel rod pieces so they are flush with the surface of the last. The two pieces at the top of the cone stop the heel part from shifting backwards, and the piece coming up from the sole keeps the heel piece from shifting to one side or the other.


Aside from the extra work involved, I'm quite pleased with the way it works!

Jenny

Great idea Jenny. Simple to execute and effective. What are your lasts made of?

They are made of "Liquid Last"--a mixture of Bondo and polyestor boating resin. If you're interested, I can give you the exact recipe. Some may be under the impression it is only Bondo, having purchased some and peeled the "Liquid Last" label off, revealing the Bondo can. However, it has had the boaters resin added to it.

The downside is that there is about 2% shrinkage. So if I get the last exactly how I want it, make a mold of the last (I use Durham's Water Putty, which doesn't shrink), and then pour Liquid Last into it, the new lasts will be slightly smaller than the original.

The other downside is that the stuff is REALLY SMELLY until it dries.

The UPSIDE, though, is that it takes tacks really well. I think it is the polyestor resin added to the Bondo that may allow that--I think it makes it less brittle. Also, another plus, it isn't hugely expensive to use.

Jenny

Interesting. I've been using 300Q, 2 part polyurethane from Smooth-on. No smell, no shrinkage (.001%, actually), pours like water and hardens in 30 seconds. It's a little bit expensive. About $30 for a pair of lasts.

I may give that a try. Not that much more expensive than Liquid Last, really. What do you make your molds of, and what do you use for mold release?

Jenny

The Smooth-on 300 series is fantastic stuff - you can screw into it, drive tacks into it, sand it...

They make veriations that harden slower as well to give you more working time with less stress.

My only criticism is that it's very sensitive to moisture in the air, which will cause small bubbles to form.

Craig

For molds I've used Smooth-on's VytaFlex 30 with Mann's Ease Release 200, which is a good general purpose release.

Craig

I am using STS casting socks and green dishwashing soap as a release. I usually destroy the sock removing it but is does release. A more careful person could probably rescue the sock. http://www.stssox.com/

The casting sock sounds like a much easier solution than using a rubber mold for creating something like a last - if you need to create anothing copy, I guess you could always place a new casting sock over the last.

I've used Green Soap before as a release - doesn't foam like dishwashing soap though not as cheap.

Rick, how did you break your wooden lasts? It looks like the two cuts don't meet each other.

Jenny

I cut the two lines so they don't meet but are close. Then smack the last on a table and it splits between the lines.

Question? After making the model of the foot from the mold how do you turn that into a working last? Toe shape, cone, etc, etc????
Thanks in advance, Joel

I use Apoxie sculpt from http://www.avesstudio.com/ which is very easy to make the toe but a little tough to nail. Or use Bondo (car repair) which is has much more difficult to shape but easire to nail.

What I'd really like is some additive to Apoxie sculpt that makes it easier to nail.

No cone, just use the leg shape. Define the feather line a little by sanding and you're good to go.

Why don't you create it out of more smooth-on 300?

There's a material called Cabosil that can be used as a filler and is inert so it shouldn't effect the setting up of the apoxie sculpt - I've never used it, just heard about it. Might change the density enough to allow it to take a nail. Also, smooth-on makes a product called Plasti-Paste that might work for creating a toe shape.

re bubbles...don't know if this would work with the 300Q, but it works well with the Liquid Last, which I have also had bubble problems with.

I mix the ingredients in a disposable plastic pail. I have a corded electric massage gadget (not sure what it's called), and I turn it on and hold it against the bottom of the pail. You can see the bubbles coming to the surface. Sometimes I have to stir the very top lightly to break the bubbles. I would say this has reduced the bubble problem by about 90 percent!

Jenny

300Q is a very mobile liquid, suitable only for pouring into molds.

The Apoxie Sculpt people just told me to try mixing their A/B parts 60/40 to get a more nailable result. I'll post if this works. I really love this stuff otherwise.

All,

I've never tried the Smooth-On brand PU foam, when I was looking into the Smooth-On a local dealer for their products had some samples of it and I thought it would be to soft to make shoes on. If I recall they had samples of all the densities offered in the foam-it rigid series. Not sure if I saw a sample of the 300Q. A quick search on their website shows a 300Q in the smooth cast section, not with the foams. Is that the product mentioned above?
I would imagine the Smooth-On is cheaper than the Otto Bock foam that I've been using, I'm not sure how much that runs per last but it's quite expensive. Does a hazardous material charge for UPS get added when they ship this to you?
To get a sturdy toe elongation on the last I make my last first out of plaster, add the toe elongation and make sure all the measurements are correct, than I cast that plaster last and from the cast make my PU last. It's an extra step that takes time but I have had to much trouble with the toes breaking of the last otherwise. The elongation you add with another material or even PU foam on a separate pour have more than once come loose on me and it always happens at the worst times.

Rob

Rick, I was thinking of a subtractive approach - mold an extra "plug" of Smooth-on onto the last and then sand down to shape. Let us know if the 60/40 works.

Jenny, conceptually like a concrete vibrators! Worth trying. You'll want to use Smooth-on 320 if you're going to try this out. It gives you about 30 minute before it sets up.