Looking for...

[mitch]

Wanted: leather stretching/ball and ring/bunion pliers, wholesale.

I'm looking for a quantity discount
supplier for a tool variously
called:

1. ball and ring pliers
2. hoke and ball pliers
3. leather stretching pliers
4. shoe [or boot] stretcher
5. shoe [or boot] stretching pliers
6. bunion stretcher

It is a locking jaw pliers or clamp which
has a spherical ball on one side and a
ring on the other, used to spot stretch
leather shoes and boots.

I've found several retail price sources, ranging from $22-$50, such as

1. http://www.shoeandfootcare.com/p/101-051-00/product-bunion-stretcher-p101-051.ht ml
2. http://www.emocs.com/stretchers.htm
3. http://cgi.ebay.com/Bunion-Shoe-Stretcher-Hoke-Ball-Ring-Cast-Spot_W0QQitemZ3700 92794270QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370092794270&_trkparms=72%3A1421%7C39%3A1%7C66%3 A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
4. http://cgi.ebay.com/HOKE-BALL-BUNION-Shoe-Stretcher-FREE-Liquid-Stretch_W0QQitem Z190257143972QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190257143972&_trkparms=72%3A1421%7C39%3A1%7 C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
5. http://www.shoestuff.com/Shoe_Stretchers-Ball_and_Ring_Stretcher.html

Any suggestions?



(Message edited by mitch on October 08, 2008)

[fred_coencped]

All,
After checking and continuing checking E bay,I am looking for a 5 hp Rotary phase converter for 2 machines.
Both are USM,
Model C Die Press,with a 1 HP motor 3 phase that can be wired to 220V and I am concerned of less power.
The other is of bigger concern,it is a Model D 12" Band Knife Splitter.The motor is 3 HP.I am skeptical to use a static solid state converter because of a 1/3rd loss of power and have always elected the use of the rotary style of conversion to 3 phase and I think the loss could be up to 10% in HP.And that is acceptable to me.

Any thoughts ,suggestions or leads to a used rotary phase converter or any thoughts to an adequate solution are requested.
Thanks,Fred

[large_shoemaker_at_large]

Hi Fred
Try Kay Industries www.kayind.com
They have been advertising in Fine WoodWorking magazine for a while.
Good luck
Regards
Brendan

[tmattimore]

Fred
If they are still there try Telco Electric in Albq. They used to be on 4 th st just north of Menaul. They have built rotary converters for me in the past for less then buying a new unit. There is also another outfit in Denver I will try to find the name for you if you need it. Shipping on these is a major cost any more.
Tom

[tmattimore]

P.S. even with a mechanical clicker on a rotary converter heat can be an issue you might talk to an electrician about a thermal overload switch. It should not be a problem with the band knife splitter.
Tom

[jask]

I use a home built phase converter in my shop to power several 3HP 3PH tools.
You or your electrician can build a phase converter.The only style I would recommend is the rotary converter( with an idler motor and potential relay)as they provide a much more stable voltage under load. The use of the potential relay automates the task of switching the starting windings on and off under load to prevent the voltage in the "false" leg from collapsing and stalling the motor.
The first link has a good design titled "simple rotary converter", while the second better details the capacitor balancing to hit target voltages on each leg.

http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/projects/phconv/phconv.html

http://waterfront-woods.home.att.net/Articles/phaseconverter.htm

If you are interested I can take pictures of my relay/ capacitor box to show you how simple it is. The most expensive part of this project is the potential relay, and they can actually be salvaged from old central air conditioning units!!

[fred_coencped]

Brendan,Tom and Jask,

Thank you all for your great responses regarding 3 phase.I am hoping to find a 5 hp used and building a rotary is definetely worthy of consideration.I have been consulting with several electricians ,shop owners etc.to get the job done right.

Jask,I have seen some of the control panels I guess with their capaciter banks and switching on ebay,that require a 220 motor.I am not in a big rush to get this equipment running therefore having time on my side.I will keep checking ebay and local electric motor co`s and the thrifty nickel.

Maybe I will get lucky and someone out there in cyber space will stumble across a 5hp rotary phase coverter and voila,irish luck......

OK,friends,Peace,Freddy

[jask]

If your largest motor on the load will be a 3HP then you do not need a bank, you can get by with about 3-4 easily found capacitors, a high value resistor, magnetic switch, potential switch and enclosure... find a salvage 3-5HP 220V 3ph motor and an hour of time and you are ready to go.

[fred_coencped]

Jask,
As another option I am told a 110 single phase motor set up with a idle pulley to start a 3 phase 5 hp motor will also do the job.After start up the single phase idle pulley is dis-engaged and only the idle 3phase motor is left running.Therefore with the 220 wired to the 3 phase idle motor and the single phase start up motor will generate the 3rd leg and the capacitors etc.are not necessary.

I am as confused as ever about all this and would like to know if there are plans for this easily found.What is your feeling or opinion?I do like your system and honestly feel the one motor is to my liking.Truely if I can find a used converter great.

Still I am going to look locally starting at the junk yard for a 5 hp 3 phase motor to start with.

Thanks for your help,Fred

[fred_coencped]

Jask,There are 2 items on ebay that look worthy of consideration.

Item # 250337745009 is a 5 hp rtary and item#310108375729is a new 5hp panel requiring a 5 hp 3 phasemotor.

I have not been able to determine the manufacturer of the 1st item.Do you think either is ok.

Thanks again,Fred

[jask]

Hi Fred
I can not comment on the Ebay items as I do not have any information on the design. There are a lot of designs of varying quality out there. The idle pulley system has several drawbacks; it is a bit of a rube goldberg mechanically, after starting if the 110 motor is still driven it will create electricity-this could be damaging or dangerous, and most importantly the 220 idler motor will generate the 3rd leg close to full voltage under no load-but when a load is added this voltage will collapse and either stall or damage all the motors on the circuit.

[chuck_deats]

Fred, Jask,--Just a comment that is not much help. I have a large (10hp) phase converter, built by a local electric motor repair shop, that has operated flawlessly for years. It is located in another room. Tried to put a light bulb accross one leg of the switch to remind me it was running. Worked fine until you turned the converter off. The back-feed from the spinning motor would cause the light bulb to get very bright and burn out. Just do without the light bulb.

[fred_coencped]

Chuck,
Is that converter of yours the idle pulley system type.If so I am leary of creating a serious flaw endangering my 3 phase motors.They are original 1930`s.

Jask,
Rube Goldberg sounds like a can of worms under load with the idle pulley system.

A 5 hp 3phase idle motor offers 125% of 2 motors of combined 4 hp.Could you send photos of your set up and maybe suggest specific info on the size/ratings for the capacitors,high value resistor,magnetic switch and potential switch.I am curious if those potential relay switches can be had from a heating/airconditioning supplier,what it looks like and cost new vs.salvaged.

Thanks again,Fred

[chuck_deats]

Fred,--Don't think it is an idle pulley system. No pulleys, no belts, just a self starting 10hp motor. Don't know much else except that it works well. Shutdown feed-back from the coasting motor should not be a problem with tool motors as they are turned off before turning the converter off.

[jask]

Fred, I will try to get those posted today.

Chuck,check with a motor shop or electric supplier for a 220-250V neon pilot (indicator) light. Neon lamps do not burn up the filament like traditional bulbs.I read a few years back of a woodworker that wired a relay into his shop lights; when he left the shop and turned off the lights the relay would kill power to his dust collection system.

[dearbone]

Fred,

Forgive me for saying this, but this whole conversation reminds me of a statement, you and i had a good laugh about it in Guthrie, to some of us "it is like drinking water from a fire hose".

Cheers
Nasser

[jask]

Here are a few pictures; sorry for the quality(I used a low setting on the camera to allow a small file)but I think they show how simple this is to do.
I would have posted sooner but this is in the back of an unheated garage ( -18C, -29C with the windchill...)so I apologize for the delay.

Here is an image of the "panel", a standard magnetic starter switch on the left and a project box with the capacitors, potential relay and bus bar on the right. ( note the AA battery on top for scale)

8335.jpg

The wires in the above image starting from the Orange wire on top; plug to outlet box, this functions as a disconnect and prevents the phase converter from being considered part of the buildings permanent wiring. > clockwise> lead to cap box> 20 foot lead to table saw on roller base 2HP3PH.> BX cable to 3HP3PH. bandsaw > BX cable to 3HP3PH. idler motor.

8336.jpg

8337.jpg

(Message edited by jask on December 16, 2008)

[fred_coencped]

Jask,Thank you again for your efforts.Most sources including the 2 articles suggest a 5hp idle motor for the highest 3 phase 3hp,as you probably know.So do you detect any loss of powerto your bandsaw and can you actually run your table saw too?You probably don`t have as much inertia to get passed as I do with the splitter.

Anyway,Does the Bx to your idle motor come off the "project box" and deliver the 3rd leg to the panel from the idle motor,and then get dispensed to your machine motors?

Also,is that 2 capacitors in the project box?I see the relay on top.Is that the Resistor on the lower right?

Lastly,is the "busbar" a connecting block?I guess the project box feeds the idle motor.

I called Grainger for their current catalog for components.
I am looking for a 5hp 3phase idle motor.So far there are 2 in Albuquerque for $150.used with new bearings.They are in 2 different motor shops.I am hoping to get one in Santa Fe,but no luck so far.I would like to find one for $100. or less.I think it is possible.

I have been studying both of those articles initially sent by you and agree of the importance of balancing the capacitors.I have a V.O.M. meter and plan to get accurate measurements of 220/240V incoming supply at the panel.

What do you think of 8 guage wire to the idle motor with 40 amp circuit breakers for power to a 5hp idle motor and 10 guage to machine tools with seperate 30 amp fuses.Both machines run on 10guage wire.

We are getting there!,Fred

[tmattimore]

Fred
If they are still there try the Kirtland surplus property sales yard.
Jask Great picks thanks
tom

[jask]

Hi Fred
The 3hp is more than sufficient for the task,because the idler motor works as a "flywheel" for the other running motor. While I was building this I wired the static components into the system without the idler motor and although it worked well I was irreversibly convinced of the benefits of a rotary system when I attached the idler to the system. Keep in mind that the potential relay kicks the start caps into the system any time the third leg voltage starts to collapse (under load) but cuts out as soon as the additional voltage is no longer needed. When I first built this I decided to torture test the system to see if I could bog down the motor;it was easily able to cut through 2" red oak and when I fed it a 4x4 of the same it slowed down but did not stall and easily came back up to full speed as soon as I reduced the feed rate of the wood.
Not sure what you mean about loss of power to the bandsaw? it is able to start and run well on the 3hp idler, it is an old English machine (Wadkins Bursgreen) and MASSIVELY built by modern standards.Last summer a neighbour cut down an elm tree and I was able to resaw 8" thick sections of that.
The idler motor is effectively wired in parallel to all the motors in the system, the project box would be a "branch" from the idler but also in parallel to the running system-with the magnetic disconnect between the pair of them and all the other motors on the system. I could theoretically run all the motors at the same time to create a greater "flywheel" if I needed to augment any one of the machines.
The resistor is tucked behind the relay and not visible, the black box on the lower right is a run cap, the large cap at the left is a start cap.
The busbar is a terminal block or connecting block to allow a tidy connection point for all the wires. If anyone is interested I can post values for the caps and a schematic.... if I can figure out how to post a scan of a drawing....

[marcell]

I have found some old tools in a Hungarian site:

http://www.vatera.hu/retro_suszter_szerszam_1925_116080364.html

someone want them? I can buy and send them.. (4500 + 830 HUF + post to US)
Marcell

[paul]

Hello Friends,

I need to find about 100 eyelets in size AA in brown.

I need at least 80 for this job, but you know...

Can anyone share a lead with me?

And while I'm wishing, a pair of flat (not round) brown mercerized laces in about 108" would be grand also.

Thank you,
Paul

[dw]

Paul,

Goldberg---that's where I get all my eyelets. Make sure that you ask for enameled "rolets." The rolets make a neat rolled back.

Then you'll need to figure out whether you want those on aluminum or brass (guess which is more expensive) and whether Phil can get them for you.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[das]

Paul,

I'll echo DW here--Goldberg/Trendware for eyelets. As to mercerized cotton laces, I get all of mine from AGS-CUDAS (shoe repair finders) in Ashland, Virginia. I usually go in person and sort through their bins and shelves, but if you call and ask for Andy or Cecil Jacobs, they will probably fix you right up.

[paul]

Thanks Guys,

I've started the ball. I sent an email last night.

Looks like it's going to take a call to both.

I appreciate the help.

Paul