Seeking knowledge or survey

[dw]

Larry,

I guess it depends on what your goals are and what your training is.

On the most fundamental level, learning to make boots is a good preparation for learning to make shoes. Frankly, I would be a bit intimidated...and would surely seek a mentor...if I did not have the knowledge and skill that my business and experience have provided me.

But what kind of shoes? That's the question...

I am new to shoemaking. Yet my aspirations are to make the best shoe I know how to make and have the skills to make. That means using techniques that some would consider obsolete or too time-consuming or hard.

I use all leather toe boxes.

I am using a very old technique to make a sewn seat. Then I peg the heel seat piece on.

I am hand sewing the outseam in the waist, at least, if not all the way around.

And there's probably a dozen other techniques that I use which are nearly lost...and even considered 'well lost', by some.

Most of this comes natural to me because I make and teach techniques that were common a hundred plus years ago.

If a person learns to make boots (or shoes) using nails instead of pegs, or celastic instead of leather for toe stiffeners or heel stiffeners, it is much harder to make the transition to the techniques that characterize high-end bespoke work than it is to reverse that concept--to downgrade a pair of shoes by using nails instead of pegs, for instance.

So to some extent what you learn, initially, either prepares you for a further development of your skills and an easy transition to whatever level of work you aspire to, or it doesn't.

And it is not just in physical skills that we develop and evolve....it is just as important to learn and cultivate an attitude that respects and even reveres techniques that are almost...almost...universally regarded as the hallmarks of quality. Equally important is cultivating the patience and perseverance to not only take the extra time to do the techniques but to learn them in the first place.

I am sure that there are those that will take issue with me...no big deal. It's a big world out there. But that's my take on it. It's not written in stone and your mileage may vary...yada yada.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dearbone]

Some time ago we had a discussion on the making of cycling shoes,which i do not remember where and kindly ask any one who remembers to guide me to it because i have a long over due order possibly orders for cycling shoes,i am looking for a source to supply me with some of the hardware,like stiff insoles,soles. Thank you.

Nasser

[erickgeer]

Nasser,

Check over in Outsoles, under techs, crans, vis...

Does this customer want to use clipless pedals?

Erick

[headelf]

Hi, I'd like to build upon Paul's remark about Shane's Mule Ear Pulls. Fabulous boots!

"It won't be long before them ears are layin' where they're supposed to be."

Is there a secret technique that makes ears lay flatter, rather than flapp'n? Is it pattern making, cut, construction, or beating them into submission?
An inquiring mind........

Georgene

[big_larry]

If I may,

There are definate "points of quality." Two years ago I was experimenting with the techniques required to successfully "PEG" the boot. I ended up reading and searching out everybody's opinion that I could get to respond. After practicing on the shank area of the outsole and just pounding a few for the sake of practice, I made a pair of boots and pegged the entire outsole and heel. I am still wearing them and I'll admitt that I am a bit surprized at just how perfectly well they have held up.

I just finished a pair for my wife with pegs and am bottoming a pair of full wellingtons today with pegs. I move from one isolated skill to the next and do not try to do them all at once. D.W. told me that "the world is a big place and is big enough for both of us." I was trained in fundamental boot making and I hope that I am climbing that ladder of quality.

"***WARNING*** Boot & shoe making can be addictive!

I want to thank all those who are willing to give their oppinion and share their skills. And, oh yes, Paul, you make a beautiful boot!

Larry Peterson

[dw]

Georgene,

I think there is and always has been two approaches to mule eaq:

One is ornamental and one is functional--the latter pre-dates the former, I'm sure.

If the mule ear is strictly functional, it will almost always be left loose as in Shane's boots. And it will almost always present a fairly wild aspect if left on the outside of the boot. This last bit is by no means a given as often mule ears were intended to be tucked into the boot after use.

If the mule ear is more ornamental than functional it will usually be sewn down at roughly the same point that a regular straddle pull will be sewn down and sometimes if the mule ear is very long it will be tacked down with a stitch at the bottom as well...sometimes.

I suppose that one could "set" the mule ear into a more close lying configuration during the treeing pro0cess...in fact, I am sure of it as this is what I have done on occasion. All it would take is a clip of some sort at the top to set the fold and then a swath of gauze or something wrapped around the ears and the tops, to hold the mule ear close and flat while everything dried.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[donrwalker]

Georgene

All of the boots I make for myself, except packers, have mule ears. With my arthritis I find it painful to get my fingers in regular side pulls or holes. With the mule ear I can get a whole fistful for pulling. If I plan to wear my pants tucked into my boot tops as I sometimes do I stitch a small piece of velcro to the end of the mule ear and to the corresponding position on the side seam. I could take a picture and post it if that would help.

Don

[paul]

Georgene,

To address your supposition about a technique to cause the ear to lay flatter against the boot, I have used the "orange peel effect" to good purpose. You know, where the inside diameter of a curve is less than the outside diameter.

When I'm applying the lining, I'll stretch and pull it tight as I lay it against the outer part of the ear. I install linings on belts the same way. The consequence is the it will actually curve the end in on itself.

Then clipping or folding it such as DW suggests will set the fold. And consequently when it's stitched on, it will lay flatter from the start.
However, any that I have left loose for the customer, have eventually come back to be stitched down because of the annoyance of the "flappin'".

Paul

[headelf]

Thanks for the tips guys.
Don, I'd like to see your Velcro picture, to see if you do it, like I think I'd do it.
Paul, I can appreciate the flappin of the ears when not stitched down.
I find the pulls on regular boots can be annoying when wearing a skirt--they sometimes collide on the inner shaft when walking which is not a problem when wearing pants.
Georgene

[donrwalker]

Georgene

Hope this helps. here is a picture

[donrwalker]

Georgene

Hope this helps. here is a picture

9490.jpg

, here is a picture

9491.jpg

[headelf]

Thanks for pix, we're on the same page. Love the piano teacher's sandals. Do the notes play a song dear to teacher's heart?
Georgene

[john_ralston]

Donald,

How on earth did you keep 10 rows of stitching parallel!?

Nice work.

John

[mac]

John,
I have the same question!
Sean

[donrwalker]

John and Sean

Just like getting to Carnegie Hall, Many years of practice, practice, Practice.

Georgene

Yes, Its Bach as I recall, but I don't remember for sure.

Don

[big_larry]

Don,

You are truely a "Master."

Larry Peterson

[donrwalker]

Thanks for the compliments. I need to post more often. Its good for the ego.

Don

[sean_oneil]

We have just been given a movie project to build footwear for. The story is a loose remake of Moby Dick and is set in the 1850's. We met with the wardrobe designer today and got marching orders for a few pairs of boots for lead characters and identical copies in sizes for stunt and photo doubles. The order will exponentially grow as people get cast.

One look that the designer is trying to find without much luck (nor did we have anything in our library) is a men's work shoe: lace up, latchet or buckle appropriate to New England whaling and associated dockside trades of the 1850's.

Does anyone have photos, drawing, links, etc. that they would be willing to share?

Thanks

Sean

[athan_chilton]

DID the whaling crews wear shoes while sailing? I'm fairly sure that earlier in the 1800s the British Navy sailors did not wear them, except for shore excursions. Dockside workers very likely would have worn them, one would imagine.

[sean_oneil]

Athan,

Quite a few of the sailors will be barefoot on camera. I'm looking for typical footware for the stevedore, chandler, carpenter, etc. More the dockside trades than shipboard.

[chuck_deats]

Sean,
Those whalers went from Greenland to Antarctica, so they wore some sort of shoes. Probably about the same as shore people. Don't have pictures but 1850's military brogans would not be far wrong. I am sure there more knowledgeable people on the forum.

[jkrichard]

I think this is just as fair as a place for this question as anywhere else...

Here is a bit of a problem that I find myself in at times: I tend to rush.

Largely in part because it's part of the American culture and work ethic to get as much done (now!) as possible, also largely in part because of an instilled military work ethic of get it done (now!).

I've made great leaps and bounds to try to calm down when I'm at school/shop---but I still find myself juggling 2-3 pairs of shoes and 2-3 pairs of boots at the same time...and setting ridiculous daily goals of how much work to accomplish --- in honesty, I know the craftsmanship suffers because I'm still 'driving production,' as we would say on recruiting duty. It's not for a lack of pride in workmanship, but rather, pride in quantifying accomplishment.

So I ask my fellow cordwainers: how have you managed to teach yourself to slow down and make every stitch count? Are their certain tricks or games you employ with yourself? Also, how do you explain to your customers and clients (especially those new to ordering bespoke footwear) as to why they are going to have to wait so long?

Thank you,

-Jeff

[marcell]

"this is bespoke business Sir" - that all.

[artzend]

I'll second that, I didn't think there was another way.

[dw]

Without being too self-promotional, I suggest that you read a couple of essays that I wrote--first post in each link:

diamonds on the soles of her shoes

and this one

and this one

I know that reading this will be tedious and will take more than a minute or two but it's the closest to an answer I can give and maybe even the closest you'll get here. At the very least it will give you something to think about.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member