sewing machines

[amuckart]

Terry,

Sorry I missed your mention of the Pedersen 308 manual. I would be very interested in seeing this, because some parts for the Pedersen are still available and I'd like to know what bits it originally came with. My SD-28 only has one foot and one bottom plate and I'd like to get more for it if I can.

If you could scan and email it to me at silver at where dot else dot net dot nz I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

[tjburr]

Alasdair,

I would be glad to email you the manual. I will try to scan it in tonight or tomorrow and send it out.

I did not think about it, but the part numbers may be different between the Pedersen and the Junker and it might help to have both.

Terry
HCC Member

[das]

All,

Landis 88 McKay chain-stitcher is going fine now. I lowered the "cast off" and drowned the head in oil, and voila!

Problem is I use this machine so infrequently--it sits for a year sometimes--every time I get to use it it's like starting all over as a beginer.

Project in front of me is chain-stitching 12 iron Cats Paw rubber half soles to 9 iron leather full soles before they are stitched to the (welted) boots (WWII Corcoran paratrooper jump boots). The McKay's "feed point" and presser foot have to be wedged open with a bit of scrap leather so the presser isn't holding the work too tightly, otherwise it binds and won't feed. I may just sew up several pairs of these damned two-piece bottoms to have on hand for "next time" so I don't have to go through this every time.

[tmattimore]

D.A.
I do not know if Landis made a foot for rubber but most of the german mckays have one, it has a small but flatter bottom with a small tooth underneath for a pusher. If you have an extra feed point you might try shortening a little and brazing a brass plate on with a small hole for the point to go thru. This would save readjusting the machine.
Tom

[das]

Tom,

I use my McKay so seldom I doubt I'd go to that length. The old boys I knew used a long tapered triangle of soling wedged into the presser-foot lifting lever assemble (on the lower right of the head) to raise the presser/feed-point so thicker work would feed smoothly without binding. So far this is doing the trick for me. No re-adjusting anything mechanical really, just slide the wedge in/out to get the drop you want looser or tighter.

The 88 is not my favorite machine, but sometimes ya just need that chain-stitch

[amuckart]

Hi all,

I have found a place (pedersen-spares.com) that can supply parts for the Pedersen 308 stitcher, which also fit the Junker & Ruh SD-28.

I am going to ask them about availability of/quote for parts I need to make mine fully functional again. Are there any other parts people would like me to inquire about? If so, please get back to me in the next few days and I will put a list together for them.

I don't know what they have or what quantities they would need parts ordered in to be worthwhile but I'll keep people informed of progress.

Terry has a scan of the Pedersen manual with the part numbers in it.

[tjburr]

Al/Everyone,

An email with a link to pictures from Alasdair got me really wondering about my SD-28. Specifically the stitching plate.

His has an entirely different stitching plate than mine. I know there are multiple plates, so maybe Al or someone else knows what makes mine different, or it's intended purpose.

10816.jpg

The person I purchased my machine from mentioned it used to be set up to cut a groove in the bottom of the leather as it sewed, but he had broke something off since this did not work too good.

It would be nice if my plate had the channel guide that Al mentioned above. Hopefully pedersen will have a spare part with Alasdair's research that I can take advantage of. Otherwise I will be looking at fabrication.

The interesting thing is my machine is an Junker & Ruh, but the previous owner sent me a pedersen manual. Looking at this manual my stitching plate is not pictured, though there are several parts not in the pictures.

I thought I would also post a slight modification I performed to my machine. I believe the initial idea came from a post on this website, by I am not sure.

I took a wax stripper from a sole stitcher and modified slightly to remove the excess wax from the thread as it comes out of the wax pot.

10817.jpg

So you can see my full machine

10818.jpg

Terry
HCC Member

[tjburr]

I forgot to mention

I had wondered if this stitching plate was originally intended to have a guide attached to the left hand side. This plate is mentioned in the pedersen manual but does not have a picture. The one thing I was not sure of was with the guide location, the guide would only be on the left hand side unless the piece wrapped around behind the presser foot.

Also for those people not familiar with this machine, I took this picture with the stitching plate rotated out to get a better picture.

Terry
HCC Memeber

[amuckart]

Thanks for posting your photos Terry. Your machine sure is a lot cleaner than mine!

The needle plate on your machine is very different to what I have as is the little bar of metal screwed on the front. I don't know what it is but mine's bevelled on top not flat like yours. Looks like we have the same presser foot though.

Here's the state my machine was in when I got it:

10820.jpg

Here it is after cleaning

10821.jpg

Here's a closeup of the presser foot and the front of the needle plate. You can see just on the right of the needle slot there is an upturned tag. I am assuming this is the channel guide.

10822.jpg

There are more pictures of it being disassembled and before and after cleaning on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amuckart/sets/72157623186612148/

These are neat machines. I think I might start a website about them and see what interest I can garner from the rest of the Internet.

In my hunt for needles I got to talking to to Gordon Disher about the machines. He's got a beautifully restored 7-series Singer I'm horribly jealous of.

[das]

Alasdair,

Great going lad! As soon as I get my Pedersen manual scan from Terry with their parts numbers, I'll see what I need; however, needles are the biggest immediate need. Do they still offer needles?

I chased the un-used Junker last seen in Richmond, VA to ground, and it's "gone" *sigh*. Might have made a good parts-machine.

PS--Sorry I missed your phone call. Not sure of the time difference, but let's schedule a day/time and try again.

[das]

Terry,

Your Junker needle-plate is the one for flat harness work. The empty screw hole held an adjustable depth guide with a roller wheel to keep the work equa-distant from the needle in line as it fed.

Alasdair,

Your needle-plate has the little channel-guide "pip" sticking up, for shoe sole-stitching in a pre-cut channel or groove. Will not feed unless the work is pre-channeled/grooved to ride on the "pip" IOW.

I think there were two more plates made, one for crepe rubber soles, and another small plain one.

[amuckart]

Al,

Thanks for the info about the needle plates. I'm still very much in the dark with these machines and sadly the pictures of parts in the scan-of-a-photocopy from Terry are a bit indistinct. The text is all good though.

I got an email from a lady at Pedersen-spares today. They manufacture the parts to order which may mean ordering in bulk and paying a lot but we'll have to see what the quote looks like. I've asked about reprint or scanned-from-original manuals as well.

They don't do needles but I'm talking to Detlef about getting more from Göetz and I'm hunting down a supplier in Australia who may have some. The small sizes are near impossible to find - as you know - but size 7 & 8 are looking obtainable.

If you, or anyone else are after more needles just send me an email with what you're after and I'll see what I can get hold of.

Time difference between NZDT and Eastern is 18 hours. IOW you're six hours ahead, but a day behind me.

[amuckart]

Thinking about needles for these SD-28s -- how long do they tend to last, and what's the failure mode? Do they go blunt or break, or both?

I'm trying to work out what sort of quantities I should buy.

[das]

Alasdair,

Needle life: "it depends"

I've used mine as a regular back-up when my Landis 12-L is acting up (which is too often), and for odd flat jobs like pistol holsters. Bent a few needles, none have broken, and points can be re-sharpened (there're pretty big bits if steel). I'm not sure how much "production" or use you plan to put yours to, but depending on price I'd start with at minimum 2 doz. each size to "be safe", or double or treble that because they are no longer being made?

[amuckart]

Thanks. I figured it would be very dependent on usage.

My machine has the scars of needle points hitting both the needle plate and the shuttle (bobbin?) carrier. Presumably because of bad timing/bent needles.

Mine won't be a serious production machine by professional standards since this isn't my job, but if I get it running well it'll be my go-to machine for a variety of non-shoe stitching as well.

I have been wondering how hard needles would be to make out of spring steel wire with a dremel to cut the groove. Purely idle speculation until I've actually seen some though.

[tjburr]

Ouch! I was hoping I had a "lifetime" supply of needles, or close to, but I definitely did not go for 2 doz. of each size. Alasdair, I will have to email some idea of how many I would be interested in. Detlef was definitely a nice, helpful person and maybe he can help again.

I will have to ask my blacksmith friend about "unbending" these needles.

I will have to see what Alasdair finds out about the needle-plates. It is good to see a picture of the one used for putting the stitch in the channel. If nothing else, I think I have the skills to make a usable if not pretty version; nothing like putting a few rudimentary armor making skills to shoe making

What I have never quite understood was the description given in the manual about how to use the "channel" guide. The manual says "The Channeling is the most important preliminary work for machine stitching. The channel must be cut fairly deep and the lip must be well raised. The channel for machine work differs from the channel for hand work in so far as the channel bed should be substantially wider for machine stitching than for hand work. The channel should be cut at a distance from the edge of the sole in accordance with the work" and "The shoe is held lightly by the left hand, welt upwards, as in hand sewing and the channel, prepared in the manner previously described, is placed over the channel guide of the stitching plate."

Not exactly sure what that all means though. First, even with the picture of the needle-plate from Alasdair I could not see if the guide on the stitching plate is on an angle or more vertical. Even with that I was not sure of how a channel would feed through. The way I picture the description from end view is as follows, though I feel like I am missing something.

10836.png

Terry

[tjburr]

Sorry about the image size. I was trying inkscape and did not mean to make the image bigger than the drawing.

Terry

[tjburr]

Alasdair,

It looks like you done a great job cleaning up the unit.

I agree with you that I find this machine fascinating. It is really quite interesting how they put so much functionality in a little package. Through the years I have seen a number of very interesting hand operated shoe machines, and I wish I could get a small selection of them.

Terry

[amuckart]

This may help explain the chanelling -- there is a separate channeler that goes with the SD-28. Gordon Disher has one and sent me a scan of the manual from which I've cropped this picture of the unit.

I'm guessing the SD-28's sole plate is designed to work with the channel cut by this machine:

10838.jpg

[tjburr]

I was taking more looks at the channel guide and needle-plate. I was wondering if I was just not seeing the plates from the correct angle and the channel actually rides more like this.

10840.png

Terry

[amuckart]

Terry, I just finished stripping my SD-28 completely, down to its component parts, in preparation for de-rusting the corroded bits. Last time I only took it as far as the major sub-assemblies so I could clean it and figure out what needed done next.

I took photos of every stage and every component partly for my own reference and partly so I can put them online for other people in the same boat as me so I have better photos of the needle plate now. I think your second picture is a lot closer to how it works.

Tomorrow, when my camera has charged, I'll post photos of the needle plate here.

[amuckart]

Hi Terry,

Here are pictures of the channel guide tab I took last night while I was stripping my machine. I hope these explain it a bit better.

[the board threw an error, so I'll post them one at a time]

(Message edited by amuckart on January 13, 2010)

[amuckart]

SD.28 Channel guide
[The board seems to throw an error if there is a '-' in the filename.


(Message edited by amuckart on January 13, 2010)

[amuckart]

SD.28 Channel guide

10846.jpg

[amuckart]

SD.28 Channel guide II

10848.jpg