The Crispin Colloquy

Jake,

It ain't...but if it were me, I'd return them and ask for my money back. I'm a firm believer in supporting suppliers and the people who support us but I'm also a firm believer in calling them to account when they screw up. Think of it like this....every dollar is a vote. If you pay them a hundred dollars for "substituted" goods, you vote to approve of their substitution. And the next time someone...me, you, Al, or some unfortunate beginner, orders from them, they'll be more likely to do it again.

I'd write them a letter and complain vociferously. Tell them these awls will not do...that they aren't a reasonable substitute if only because the awl will be weakend by the hole. And ask that they either replace the awls with what you actually ordered...at their expense, shipping included...or return your monies, shipping included. I know that's probably more hassle than it's worth, but it just that reluctance that they're counting on. For the good of the Trade...they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Some years back I placed an order for pegging awls with CS Pierce. What they sent me was size 30 patcher needles that had been broken off and ground to a dull point. I immediately called them back and told them in no uncertain terms that this was tantamount to fraud and that I wanted my money back. I never got my money back despite repeated assurances that the "check was in the mail." But even though it was a small amount, I harassed them at least once a week for several months (on their toll free number) and, to this day, I tell everyone who'll listen that not to deal with CS Pierce because they are a bunch of crooks.

I'd hate to put Barnsley in the same category as Pierce but this is how it starts...

Sorry for the sermon.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Jake,

Oops! My mistake...it wasn't PCI, it was CS Pierce. It was too early in the morning whan I posted that!

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

D.W.,

Yeah, that sounds like CS Pierce!

I guess I'll write Barnsley & Sons a letter. It going to be a pain in the back side! Hell, it's a pain just to order from them.

Everyone,

Sit-up and take notice!!! The order I received from George Barnsley & Sons WAS exactly as stated on the "Quotation Proforma Invoice" before I wired the funds to them.

This was an oversite on my part! I had ordered the regular 3" sewing awls. They substituted the "eyed" awls. I had plenty of opportunity to notice the change, or substitution. I was gathering all my paperwork for this transaction and noticed the substitution this morning.

For those who have never ordered from them, let me run down the process. First, you send them an order via fax or mail. They send you a "Quotation Proforma Invoice" to make clear what the total charges will be. Then you have to get a bank draft in pounds to send them, or they can accept wired funds now, also in pounds. Then they will send you a "Sales Invoice" followed by the merchandise. This whole process took me about a month, and I utilized the fax machine and wired funds procedure. It's a pain in the &%*#@!

I have ordered from Andrew Barnsley on several occasions the past few years. I have always received exactly what I ordered. They have always treated me courteous by sending samples and helping in any. Their shipping department is the very best I've ever seen. They hand wrap every single piece of merchandise! Very impressive!

I just wanted to make sure everyone didn't get the wrong opinion concerning this company. They are truly one of our best suppliers any where in the world.

Jake,

I've ordered from Barnsley yearly myself for nearly 30 years, and they haven't ever made a boo-boo, so I was shocked to hear of the eyed-awl mess. I'm sure they'll straighten it out for you.

Heck, I wondered if you were planning on hand-stitching rubber soles, seeing as you were moaning about your curve needle. And no, I haven't forgotten your query on all of that, just finding the "spare" time to type a sensible lengthy reply hasn't come up just yet. Be patient dude. I'll reply

Al,

Well, I may end up sewing some neoprene! But honestly, I may just keep the awls. I sunk one into a haft today, and I don't think they're hurt one bit. Doubt if they would break. I actually use a "sewing" awl to inseam, instead of the "inseaming" awl Barnsley sells. I use their "inseaming" awl for whip-stitching the shank and heel.

I'm most interested in your reply concerning hand stitching outsoles. I've got a pair of boots just waiting for your instructions. Glad you're getting your thoughts together. I believe you're drawing a crowd who's anticipating your comments. By the way, I'm still pissed at my curve needle. Don't know if I'm gonna divorce her or not. I believe she's jealous of you!

Thanks for not forgetting about me!

I almost forgot
thanks for the advice about the tools and oil

CW

Jake,

I just wanted to thank you for clarifying the situation with Barnsley. It's bad enough that there are companies out there like CS Pierce but to think that Barnsley might be slipping into similar practices is almost scary.

Good on you!


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

I might have a few of these for your holiday amusement...here's a look back at the near origins of some of the equipment and tools that form the basis for our Trade:

This is c.1880 but the Amazeen upper skiver was there probably a quarter century previous.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Goodyear outsole stitcher c.1880's...looks like an early curved needle--in fact, I think I had one of these machines in my first shop!


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

A couple of crimping machines...

This first one is for shoes, but I can't visualize what part of a shoe would need to be crimped or look like the blade of the machine. Maybe the tongue?


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

This one is for boots, full wellingtons most likely...if the traditional accounts hold true. There's still a few of these around and even some attempts to make new versions.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Pegging machine...

"...adapted to all classes of work, especially High, Round and Crooked Shanks. Works by Foot or Power."

"Speed, 500"


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

D.W.
Where did you get the piture of one of my crimp breaks. The one I have like this came out of the old Ray Jones shop at Lampasas, TX. I think he said he had opened there at the end of WW 2.

Len,

Lucky you!! My old teacher--Mike Ives--has one of the old crimping machines like the second one pictured above. I'd love to have it. But he knows it's worth something and has sworn to sell it dear or give it to a museum.

I have several old catalogues...that's where I'm getting these old lithographs. I clean them up a little before I post them but it's really facinating to see the way tools and equipment have evolved. To see the early skiving machines, for instance, and then think about how they have evolved to the modern Fortuna type....I mean the very concept of a skiving machine is no small thing, in itself. And to get one to actually do clean consistant work is even a bit of a chore with modern machines (you've got to be ready to sharpen and adjust and tweak them constantly). So I ponder about how good the early models were and wonder if they weren't so good how they ever survived to become the modern type.

Anyway...I'm glad you're enjoying the pic and I'm jealous of your old crimp break.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Here's a powered insole channeler. I wonder if anyone has ever seen one of these. Do they cut a slit (angled or otherwise) or a groove or what? Channeling gouges for channeling the insole by hand were quite common at this time and they were essentially a guideless race or groover.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

An early McKay...it's a monster.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Here's a rotary peg float. Man, would I like to get my hands on a working one of these. The idea just strikes me as so clever and so practical. And the machine could be operated by foot power so that when the entire North American grid goes tips up, you'd still be in business.



Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

On the other hand, some things don't seem to change much in 125+ years...


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

And here's the equivalent of a modern day finisher--in four parts....

Here's the scouring section:



Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Here's the brush section:



Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Here's the trimmer section--can you believe that? Rotary edge trimmers in 1880?



Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

And here's an early Naumkeg...wow!


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

And, finally, for those with limited shop space--an early jacksander--complete with 3" sandpaper belts and what looks to be a dust collection system.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

I would trade my left one for the peg trimmer. It is too bad most of the old machine companies in the thirties and earlier would take this stuff in trade strip it and scrap it to keep it out of the market. Larry was telling me that when USM bought Hudson they scraped almost all the old stuff to do the same. Then came WWII and anything not nailed down went to the scrap drives. D.W. great pics
Tmattimore