The Crispin Colloquy

Since I have my ticket to the AGM squared away for October, I'll pass along my research for others.

There are connecting flights to Oklahoma City from both Chicago and Dallas.(at least on American and United) Guthrie is just a little further along the main road from the Oklahoma City airport.

For reference, my ticket from Los Angeles to Dallas and onto Oklahoma City was just under $400 and there may be better deals for those of you who don't have to come as far as I do, or have mileage to turn in. Now is a good time to check it out and plan to attend.

I arrive in the early morning on Friday since I'm taking a redeye and meeting up with Jenny from Chicago to drive to Guthrie. So, allowing time to screw around with luggage and rental car acquisition, will probably depart the airport around 11:30 a.m.



Georgene

Brendan, Now you are fully informed and equipped to make your tabi in any way you like,slip cast last will work,forgot you can make cast any time.
Forgive my ignorance,i don't know what PAC meeting is,going from toronto to Chicago by train seems to be a little off distance,if i can catch a train from toronto to Bufflo and bufflo to Okahoma that will be ideal,i know trains are not cheap as they used to be,i will look it up.i will send you the deacription of the invisiable seam on the vamp later.
Regards Nasser

Joelle,

What book are you using for the patterns?

Tim

For Tabis?? I dont have any. If you're referring to the french book I was talking about, it's "Le manuel technique du cordonnier-bottier et du cordonnier-réparateur" from Émile Drumez (1955)

Mule ear pulls. This is a question for you Western boot experts out there. What is the theory and practice behind the mule ear pull and how does its construction and attachment differ from the standard one? On the forum I've seen ones that are loose and flappy and then ones that appear to be stitched down somehow.

I'll use this picture of Shane's recent posting to illustrate where I need clarification.

Thanks,
Georgene

When I try to search mule ear pulls, I get this message: Error 500 internal server error. FYI
Georgene

Georgene,

I can't tell you that there's any right way or wrong way. I've done them both ways.

Historically, I think they tended to be short and loose and would either hang, flapping, outside the boot or would be tucked inside the boot top.

It probably wasn't too long (but into the 20thcentury, at least) before makers started tacking them down to make a loop type pull. Like the Shane's boots.

I've also seen (and done) them long...very long--all the way to the sole...just tacking them down at the top to create the pull loop or sewing them down way down towards the bottom.

I think Blucher or Hyer used to even rivet them.

a far as theory...I just think they were pulls but rather than be straight (which might slip out of your hand) they were widened to create a good grip. And I don't think that what we know as "straddle pulls" were used or maybe even known back then. Certainly, I've never seen really old boots with straddle pulls...none earlier than the '30's...if that.

Some of the earliest pulls both mule ears and cloth were even mounted behind the sideseam.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

And if I may add...

Functionaly behind the side seam is really all that is necessary to straighten out the heel slide so the foot can enter.

My customer with the fringe boots recently, reports that the holes I put in her tops behind the seam, are working just fine.

Function leads form.

Paul

The pair I made are purely for asthetic reasons, and are stitched down. I have made plenty with long and loose ears. One benefit of long mule ears is that you can pull on your boots without bending over so far. Shane

DW,

Can you remind me where you got your blind eyelet setter and blind eyelets?

I'm wanting to get a flatter result than I can get with my standard eyelets.

Rick,

The setter was given to me. It is English but I haven't been able to find another.

Eyelets are easy. Even Goetz carries them.

I eventually came to the conclusion that eyelets were not needed, and actually made the shoes coarser in my opinion.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Greetings, A random tip, I just learned how to make the "aglets" that go on the ends of shoelaces - if you ever need to create shoelaces from something without the tip, or to shorten them - in the electrical section of a hardware store, there is polyolefin heat-shrink tubing - cut a piece off, slide it over the end of your lace and pull your lace through, heat it, cut off excess lace and voila! You've got ends on your shoelaces! best wishes, Sharon

Excuse the novice. I have been into the archives and attempted to find the information I’m seeking but have come up short. I’m not familiar with the terminology so I may even be searching in the wrong category. I travel a lot to a lot of weather zones and much of the time in remote locations. I have to travel relatively light over a bunch of different terrain. Shoe integrity is important to me. It seems that every trip I experience some sort of delaminating. This experience is mostly with athletic type leather shoes with a rubber toe cap (lightweight climbing shoe), but mountaineering and hiking boots too. I have been searching for a flexible, strong cement (or is it called glue?) to repair these breakdowns when there is little help close by.

I have taken this problem from the east coast to the west (and portions of South America and Asia) and all help thus far hasn’t been reliable. What can I use to repair flapping toe caps, separated soles, leather to leather and leather to rubber problems? I likely won’t have machinery, but (this will read badly) I could hire a person act as a clamp and hold it in place for an hour or more if that is what is required.

Thus far I have tried 3M, Gorilla glue, Renia, Barge, Eco-Flow, rubber cement (other than Barge), epoxies of several names, construction adhesive, silicone, Goop, to name a few. I have used electrical tape, gaffer’s tape, cloth glue backed tape in pinches. My enemies are wet, cold, rocks. I need a recommendation from people who know about these things. North Face suggested Barge. Adidas and Asics ignored my query. Please, is there something better than Gorilla and Barge which seem to do the best job—at least so far.

Gary,

With a life time of shoe repair behind me, sometimes I'm still stumpted. That delaminateing is really a problem. And sometimes it's more difficult to close up little gaps than big ones.

You say you're using Barge. That's what I've always had the best success with. You said something about rubber cement, but you diffinetly want All Purpose Cement. Technique is most important so I'll address that.

First your gaping surfaces have to be clean, and roughed up. Use the edge of a knife to scrape, or an awl, whatever it takes to get it clean of all dirt and grit and then rough it up. A little folded sandpaper of about 60 to 80 grit will work well.
Then you want to put on two thin coats. Heavy coats will hold bubbles which can work their way to the edge and start another gap. Prop the flap open with a toothpick so the glue in the tight areas can get some air and dry. You might need to use the toothpick to remove some of the glue from where the surfaces meet. Don't scrap it all out, just remove any puddles. Then do a second light coat, especially if the surfaces are porus.
Once it's dry, press it together. I don't know what that job would pay, but strong shoulders would be a big help. If you can't hold a press for a long time, then just press it good all around and let it sit overnight. Barge takes several hours to cure and reach maximum effacacy.

We have other members who are experienced with other kinds of glue. Maybe more help will come.

Good luck,
Paul

Gary,

Did you mention "super glue?"

Good luck,

Larry Peterson

Hi Gary
The strongest home repair might be with "Freesole" or "Seam Grip" by Mcnett Corp. It can be used with an accelorator, to hasten the cure time, when on the road. (Careful about flying with it though. The cure time is usually overnight or so. Prep the surfaces that need bonding as Paul described, then apply Freesole and if needed tape the delaminated pieces together, let cure overnight. You do not need to tape the parts tightly, just get them close. One warning, though, any grease or waterproof applied in the past will likely damage future bonding.


David

Gary,

I much agree with the previous posts. In stead of repairing a problem it may be good to consider doing some preventative maintenance before you leave on your trip. For sneaker where the toe piece may come loose, sew it to the shoe.
On other seams that you know are prone to separation run a thin beat of super glue over the seam before you go. Will not prevent all separation but may slow the process down long enough for you to make it back home.

Rob

Muk Luk Boots.

My son wants a pair of lace up Muk Luk type boots. I am going to use reindeer hide as the lining leather fur side in and Chrome tanned leather as the outside. Does anyone here have experience with lasting fur on the inside? I am wondering how Tight I will need to last and do I trim the fur off the lasting allowances. We were also planning to use Sheeps wool as a sock liner. And do I need a stiffener on leather going up the boot? Also. All the Muk luk type shoes that I see are moccasins. I have experience with moccasins but never lined. Is that possible? Geri

Geri,

Cool! I'll be interested in your progress. I have been sitting on some sheep skin for boots for some time now. I was thinking of Uggs, but your questions are relavant.

First, I would think you'd need to trim your lasting margins. Your instincts are probably good on this. Obviously it will need to adhere to your insole, so it would need to go. Although, if you whip stitched the lasting margins to your insole, which might be a good idea, maybe you wouldn't need to. Hmmm.

As to how tight, I think that's a good question too. But I can't speak to reindeer fur. I'm guessing it lays down, more like deer skin, rather than stands out from the skin as sheep does. If you were lasting sheepskin, I'd agree you'd have to consider the compression over time, which is probably what you're thinking. But I don't know that you'd have to worry so much about the reindeer. Bu you're going to want to allow room for heavy insoles anyway,and maybe even heavy socks, so I wouldn't think you'd want to last too tightly.

Muc Luk boots are a center seam design, aren't they? If so, I'd think you wouldn't need a stiffener. The seam will reinforce the tops, I'd think.

Sorry to be just participating in your questions, and not providing answers. However I bet you can shake some experienced comments out of the wood work if you stay with it. I hope so, because afterall, we're not just about shoes and cowboy boots.

I'm curious, how did you select Civil War Shoemaking for your thread choice?

Good Luck,
Paul

Geri,
I to am very curious how your project goes. I've thought quite a bit about trying to make a sheepskin lined boot. Keep us updated on the progress.

Paul,
Have you considered trying to line a dress welligton? Someone must have done it before.
J.

J,

I'm sure it has. As a matter of fact, I can see your boots done that way.

I would think that the real drawback would be that the sheepskin lining would not last as long as the boots. So, imagine charging your regular price plus a little maybe, and then 5, maybe 7 or 8 years later, the customer calls you and says the lining is shot at the ball, or some such.

So I don't know. I can see doing it for myself or my wife, but I'd be hesitant to doing anything more than some moc/boot for a customer.

Just some thoughts,
Paul

Paul,
I don't think I'd put the sheepskin on the insole. In lined boots I've owned I put a felt insole in that can be replaced every year or two. For under ten bucks you can have a warm cushy new insole as often as you need.
J.

Geraldine

Don't forget to allow room for the thickness of the hair on your linings when you make your patterns. You can't use the same allowances that you would use if making the same boot with a conventional lining. The overall size of the upper will be larger to accommodate the extra thickness. At least that is what I found doing this with sheepskin inside and assume that what you are using is also quite a bit thicker than normal lining leather.

You should also trim/shave the hair off the area to be stuck to the insole, and that includes right up to the feather edge or you won't be able to define the feather edge very well because of the give in the hair.

You should also trim the lining back, to less than the lasting allowance you have for the upper. This is so the upper can stick to the insole solidly without having to rely on a potentially weak bond of the shaved reindeer.

It may also be useful to put a reverse counter lining at the heel to grip properly.

Tim

I have moved the sheepskin boot lining over here.

Civil War Shoemaking is properly reserved for shoemaking discussions that are appropriate to the time frame of the American Civil War.

This is doubly pertinent as "Civil War Shoemaking" is a sub-topic of "Boots and Shoes in History."

I wouldn't doubt that some boots were sheepskin lined in the mid-19th century but it is apparent that modern construction and modern techniques are the subject of this thread.

Yr. Hmb. Svt.

Dear Admin,

Thank you for moving this discussion. I wondered about that.

Tim,

Great! I was hoping you'd have some input.
I can see that triming the hair back a little more than the lasting allowance would indeed help to create a more deffinite line at the feather edge of the insole. All with an interest toward getting a better edge for the sole, right?
What do you think about inseaming? Would there be a better way, of the choices one could make?
Could you please discuss the reverse counter lining? Are you refering to just turning the flesh side out on a counter lining, with a pocket design.

Thank you,
Paul