The Crispin Colloquy

DW,

Thank you for taking the time to explain the historical and the tradition hehind the making of the cowboy boots,looking at it from your perspective,i cann't disagree,Icon of the American history and the unique appeal,no doubt,i guess it all came down to the Oxbow or the flat bottomed stirrup and fiddleback vs flatback boots which also explains the the round vs the flat bottomed stirrup,I respect that,from the traditional point of view.

D.W.

That was a great overview. I used real talc and I dust the lasts before lasting. I still have not figured out everything that caused the problem. The lasts are plastic, hinged, jones and vining, size 11 1/2 D. I had to build one up a bit through the instep. It was the one that is salvagable. I have never experienced this kind of resistance. I like the 40d nail flattened out for a shank. I also like the rounded or fiddleback shape of the shank. I like the pegs a lot.

The peices of leather in the heel stack I destroyed might be salvagable. I sometimes use a press to hold the shape while the glue dries. I had used pegs and AP glue to hold the stack togather. I was amazed at how well the heel construction held up to the blows of the hammer. I was standing on the strap with my full weight of about 370 lbs and beat on the heel for several hours after wetting the boot and heating any overglue on the featherline. The heel did finally tear loose but not until after I had beaten a hole through the counter cover.

I have the book and DVD on making lasts. I will pattern my bandsaw cuts after the models on the book. These lasts are hinged and the cut will have to leave enough plastic to keep the hinge secure. The crisis is over and now back to work.

Again, I thank all who helped with the extraction. I wish you all well!

Larry Peterson

OK,

The modification on the first pair of lasts is complete. The front cone goes right back into place where it was cut with the band saw and is held with a 1/2 inch NC bolt that threads into the bottom 1 1/2 inch of the last.

One word of caution. When drilling, I assume it is best to drill from the top of the cone through the bottom at about a 60 degree angle, the tap drill size is best if the drill is long enough to make it clear through. I drill and tap before cutting the front cone. When drilling metal, a drill will usually follow a pilot hole. This is not the case with last plastic. The relief drilling to allow the body or shank of the bolt to pass through the top cone must be done very carefully or it will wander.

I also followed counsel and drilled a 1/4 inch hole through the rear cone to allow a wire to be welded to form a "D" ring from which one might pull the heel straight down. I notched the heel so it would not make a mark in the heel leather.

The 1/2 inch bolt is cut off so when it tightens the front cone to the bottom of the last, it does not come out the bottem. I welded a washer on to make a shoulder against the front cone top and a washer on top of the bolt to be able to twist the bolt out with a rod with a 90 degree bend to fit into the washer hole.

Ir works! I am tempted to make this modification on all the lasts I use. It takes a little time but it has the potential to save me a lot of grief pulling the boots off.

Thank you all for the assistance!

Larry Peterson

Larry,
How about a picture to go with the description of your handy work on the lasts?

Georgene

This is my feeble attempt to show the last modification.:

I am working on getting a correct sized picture. Please be patient!

Yhank you, Larry Peterson

Larry,

That's allright. I like your process. Step one: Get a BIG Hammer!

Chuck

Larry,

Somewhat after the fact (but after seeing your photo above) I thought it would be useful to explain how I get lasts from boots.

First, I have never encountered a last that I could not pull without destroying the boot or shape of the boot...and you remember what I said about my early experiences with too long pegs.

To begin...all lasts must have a hole drilled through the "comb" (heel) of the last, as close to the thimble as possible and at least a half an inch from the top of the comb. Some lasts even come pre-drilled.

Next, go to a company that sells equipment and tools to people in the construction trade. Purchase a length of "tie rod." This is used for cement work. Cut it to roughly 30" and bend a sharp, one inch 90° in one end. This angle can even benefit from being more than 90°. The other end gets a six inch bend that forms a long hook--so the bent end is parallel to the main shaft.

Now get a nice round rod, about a three-quarter in in diameter. It should be roughly eighteen inches long. File or grind a groove in the center of the rod all around the circumference. The groove should be a quarter inch deep.

When you are ready to pull the last, "break" or spring the last (if it is a hinged last) and then insert the tie rod into the hole in the side of the last. Obviously the end with the 90° bend goes into the hole.

Sit down.

Place the grooved rod on the floor in front of you, and then hook the tie rod on the grooved rod, so that the hook is in the groove.

Place the toe of your boot in your lap with a hand under the toe. Place the other hand behind the boot cupping the counter cover. Both hands may be used around the counter cover but keep the toe of the boot high and in the lap.

Place your feet over the grooved rod, one on either side of the tie rod. Hold the boot steady with the toe high and...with your feet only...push/roll the grooved rod away from you.

I have found, over the years that if the boot is not pegged hard to the last or glued in with cornstarch, this is the easiest way to remove the last from a boot as it provided a perfect angle and great leverage without placing too much of a strain on either your back or the back of the boot.

It's worth a try...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Also...at long last...the diagram of my last puller:


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

I am attempting to show the last modification. I shot the pics at the small size and please do not hesitate to remove them if I screw up again. And yes, I appreciate the helt shrinking my last boo boo.:

This is the last screwed down and ready to go.:

The bolt was not totally screwed down in the last pic. This might be a better shot.:

D.W.

Thank you for posting your last puller. That looks like a well thought out plan. I hope it is alright if I go ahead and build one.

I have been a bit consirned about using other folk's patterns for my inspiration sewing top patterns. I also wonder if it is right to go ahead and build equipment without formal permission. I think I have already copied lasting clamps and a lasting stand. Maybe at some time in the future we could discuss ethics and just how far we can copy other folk's stuff and still be honerable cordwainers.

At any rate, thank you for posting your last puller.

Thank you for tolerating me, Larry Peterson

Larry,

Go ahead and copy, improve, modify and use the last puller. That's how we go forward.

As far as copying patterns, etc., I seriously doubt that there is any pattern that is 100% unique. My philosophy has always been: study a pattern, maybe even copy it out on paper, then forget about it for a while.

When next you go to design a pattern of your own some of what you have studied will come out. But because it went in you head and mixed in with your own thoughts and sensibilities, the results will be as much yours as anybody's. A pattern may even end up looking remarkably like the original but as long as you didn't sit down and copy it line for line, no harm, no foul.

Finally, I have to say I cannot see why you should have had problem removing that last from a boot. There is nothing particularly unusual about the last or the build ups. It should not, ever, be necessary to cut your lasts like that and I think...just as a free (take it for what its worth) piece of advice based on 35 years of experience...I think you will come to regret it, especially if you do it to all your lasts.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

I'm in the process of making a pair of lasts for high heel woman's boots, and just about to cut them. I was wondering if they could be cut in two pieces as shown in the pic. For me, they could work. But I'd like to hear any advise from you who really know about this.
Thanks,
Angel

Sorry, here goes the pic

My Last Stand,
This is what i use to break last of boots or shoes, i have a shorter shoe stand as well,the bolt on these never bend,but to the all-mighty,even if you drive your pegs deep,not recommanded.

Larray,

I agree with with DW, please don't cut all your lasts and if you decide to go ahead anyways,i will take a close look at those lasts beside the stand in the picture,a wood screw is made going stright and a dual is made to secure the lower part of the cut area.

Nasser

Angel,

I would cut a little different. Doing it the way you suggest will cause the last to twist around the screw and not be lined up securely.
Here is how I do it:
Make two cuts, one from the top and one from the bottom. By having different angles you will get a more secure joint. Do not cut the connecting piece, just take a hammer and break the front and back part of the last apart. If you do this after your last is made you have to fill in the saw cut, a piece of 1/8” EVA works well, if you do it before finishing the last you can just screw them together and finish the last to the measurements you need.
I also prefer to use a lag bolt with a washer, a wood screw will not hold as securely over time.

Can't wait to see what you are going to make with those lasts.

Rob

Thanks, Rob
I had also thought about the twisting. I was going to try with a wood key inserted somewhere. But your idea seems very good, specially that of hammering to cut the connecting piece. I had discarded the 3 cuts way because of the difficulty of cutting this piece. I´ll try your way!
BTW, what is a lag bolt?
Thanks a lot
Angel

Larry,
Here's all you should need to pull your lasts

The puller I made was from two rods from home depot the smaller is 1/4 inch diameter

This rod fits into the last- drill hole your hole like this

Regards, J.

Some of you may have seen or own this type of lasts,this one is an odd one and a favourite,my lasts are of the breakable type,the picture is intended for those who may find the need to modify lasts,the dowel(sorry for misspelling it earlier) in the lower part is an important function,it is the stoper and it goes all the way to the bottom of the last,the wood screw on the top is only one & quarter inch long and is made stright and still holding after more than 50 years later,the last is made by G CARE LONDON.
Nasser

Angel,

A lag bolt is simply larger than a wood screw with a heavier tread and a square top to be used with a washer aimed at providing pressure between the washer and the screw thread.
Like this but I don't use the self drilling tips on mine:

You want to try and have the threaded shaft only in the front part of your last, this way you can tighten the halfs more secure.

Spenle has a nice diagram on their website showing the different ways to cut a last: Last dividing.

Rob

Rob,
Thanks. Now I know. We call those screws "tirafondos" in spanish.
And with your 3 cuts system the screw could be placed more vertical, easier to unscrew when the last is into a high boot.
I can't see the advantage of the 3 pieces cut in the Spenle diagram.
What is it for?
Thanks a lot,
Angel

Angel

The three cut has two side by side smaller wood screws connecting the heel part to the toe part in the center of the lats. When secured these are covered up with the third part that's held in place with a dowel, usually steel and a small wood screw in top of the cone, just like the last Nasser showed above.
The picture isn't that great but you'll get the idea, the most forward line is a pin holding the cone in place.

Since the last does not “break” as with the fold cut there is the potential to putting a lot of stress on the vamp point when pulling a 2 part last. By dividing the length the pressure on the vamp is not so high that the leather will rip when pulling the last.
Don't have one in my current last collection to show you. May be more of a European thing anyway. Also works well for orthopedic lasts where you have to “twist” the forefoot to pull the last, mostly due to bunions or other deformities.

I have heard the name “scoop last” used on the 2 part cut as shown by Nasser above. Is this a name anyone else is familiar with or “slang” I have picked up along the way?

Rob

Rob,

I have always heard "scoop cone" as well. So don't feel all alone. I don't know if that term is technically correct but in this case it's like what the old hand said when asked if he was a 'real cowboy'..."no, but I'll do til a real one comes along."

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member