sewing machines

[das]

Olaf,

Singers have a small lozenge shaped brass plate pinned to the front pf the upright portion of the head (the end the fly wheel is on), and the class and model number is stamped into the brass, e.g. "236W100", or "11-17", etc. Once you have picked the machine you like, then you can view or download the owner/service manuals from the web here: http://www.cuttersexchange.com/IPinstManuals/

[olandrea]

Ok I found it. It is a Singer 236G131. Does some one have info about this machine? I m looking for a all around sewing machine for hobby shoe making. How does this singer compere to a Pfaff 471 or 491?
Thanks Olaf

[lancepryor]

Olaf

If you use the 'keyword search' function on the left side of this page, and search for '236' you will find a number of comments about these machines. I don't own one, but they are very common and popular with shoemakers. My impression is that, when properly set up, they are wonderful, but they are a bit finicky because of the design of their 'driven' upper roller wheel. This feature is very helpful in sewing leather, but it does make the machine more susceptible to problems. So, before you buy one, make sure it is in good working shape or that you can have it tuned up by a good sewing machine mechanic (this is good advice for the purchase of any sewing machine).

Lance

[das]

Olaf,

I run a 236W100 as my primary closing machine. These are fairly "modern" manufacture--I think the 236 class was introduced in the 1950s. It's a great running machine, at least mine is. I bought it out of an old shoe factory and it needed some tender loving care. One detail on these people might be glad to know: the upper and lower drives are powered via rubber belts inside the head. On a whim I painted the 3 belts with a heavy coat of "belt dressing". The improvement was immediate and dramatic! Not only did the machine run silently there after, but it was ever so much more sensitive to the power pedal. So, before your write one off as "junk", or throw a lot of $ at buying new parts--try painting those rubber belts. I used the automotive, black, liquid "belt dressing" and a 1/2" paint brush, and coated all surfaces liberally. The excess soaked in over night.

Another advantage to these, they are so recent that parts are easier to find than many of the older Singers, many of which date from the 1930s, and are "obsolete" in sewing machine circles.

[big_larry]

Olaf,

I use a Singer 236 and I totally agree with what Lance said. I also appreciate the belt dressing tip from D.A.. I really like the 236!

I would suggest that you pruchase a magnetic dish to keep your tiny parts in and to remove the basket tray, It holds the bobbin, and clean the area directly under it. On both of my 236 machines I found a flat wafer of tightly wound thread. It looked like a minature LP record. I cleaned out the post internal area in one machine but then realized that the broken needle tips, lint buildup, and debree were not endangering the mechanism.

These machines are wonderful when they are tuned and tensioned. Stitch length is set with the lever under the left or needle end of the base. A floor screw is removed that allowes you to see the stitch gage. You engage the lever and hand rotate the drive wheel to get the desired stitch length. Some times this mechanism is a bit sluggish but a little patience and a little rocking back and forth will usually get the job done.

Timing is also accomplished through the base plate after removing a floor screw. There are two set screws that you work with to loosen and tighten the timing gear.

D.W. posted a reference to get a manuel.

Good luck!

Larry

[olandrea]

Thanks Larry and D.A. for the info!
are the 236 not a little bit on the fast side?
I could get one for about 200€ so I don't know if I should go for it or wait and go for a Pfaff 471 or 491.
Thanks Olaf

[das]

Olaf,

Yes, the 236 is a "high speed" machine, and this can scare newcomers--it did me. The thing wants to take off on you, but careful adjustment of the clutch motor transmission, or as others have suggested, putting a tennis ball under the pedal to resist your foot pressure will get you accustomed to it. And, like I wrote, after I applied belt dressing liberally to all the internal rubber belts, the head got a lot more sensitive to the slightest pressure. I can run mine in "slow motion" with the clutch motor now, even go one stitch at a time.

Too bad you're not across town... I'd pop over and set yours up like mine for a few beers

I have no personal experience with Pfaffs. My 236W100 is the "newest" machine in my shop--the rest are all old black Singers from WWII and before.

[olandrea]

Some replace the motor. But good to know that it would be possible to set it up like yours.
Olaf

[olandrea]

What would be the differences between the 236W100 and the 236G131. They are looking not the same. And I can't find any info or manuel of the 236G131
D.W. has only info on the 236W.

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo127/gespliessteD/Singer3.jpg

PS: I still have to find out how to at photos
Olaf

(Message edited by Olandrea on March 12, 2009)

(Message edited by Olandrea on March 12, 2009)

(Message edited by olandrea on March 12, 2009)

[das]

Olaf,

To be honest I'm not sure. The 236W is the basic single needle post-bed machine. The "100" or other suffix numbers usual have to do with special features or attachments added to the feed area, like binding feeders, lining trimmers, etc., which can are have usually been swapped around, broken, or removed (or are not needed) on old factory veteran machines. The 236W is the important part.

As far as the speed of operation and the motors--these can be changed, adjusted, or reverse-engineered to go slow, but you might need an experienced person to set it up for you--but it is possible. The 236W (head) will go slow, it's just in how the power stand is set up.

[olandrea]

But that the G stands for Germany is a myth? Even the 236G is made in Germany. Because if this would be truth for what country would stand the W for?
Olaf

[frank_jones]

The discussion about the meanings of various parts of the Model Numbers on Singer Industrial Sewing Machines has been fascinating. I have done a little checking up and so far have found the following.

The letters :-

W for made in USA
G made in Germany
K made in UK (in fact at Clydebank a suburb of Glasgow)
U is for Japan.

The Singer 236 suffix numbers mentioned in earlier posts above are :-

100 the standard machine with no extra fittings. The early models had an almost flat top to the post. The later ones had a more rounded top. Both are marked as 236W100

131 was fitted with an oblique lining trimming knife.

I am reasonably confident my sources are reliable - unless YOU know better?

Frank Jones - HCC Member
frank.jones@noblefootwear.com

[jon_g]

Thanks DW and Nasser, I received my roller wheel today and installed it on my 31-15. It took a little work but it works beautifully and now I'm waiting for the gimping attachment from Dick.

Jon

[j_johansen]

Athan,
I bought a Pfaff single needle from Pilgrim shoe supply after Shoe School. It was expensive, being totally reconditioned, but in the three years I've had it--- no adjustments, no proplems. I've bought other machines from Melanie in LA also. You might want to ask other shoe makers (I make boots) but I also love having my Singer 31-15, which was very inexpensive from a private party.
Welcome, J.

[athan_chilton]

Thanks, J, that's all good news. I've sent Pilgrim an email reminding the owner of our phone conversation & indicating I'm still interested in the machines we discussed.

Will check out Melanie, and welcome the suggestion about the Singer. What sort of machine is it? Or should I say, what's it do best?

(I'd like to try my hand at boots someday, too.)

[j_johansen]

Athan,
The 31-15 is a flat bed, single needle, roller foot sewing machine specificly designed for tailors and those sewing leather uppers.
I use it alot becase most of my upper sewing is done when the leather is flat. You should ask the shoe makers on the forum if the flatbed or post machine has more utility when making shoes, or if you'll eventually need both.
Cheers, J.

[athan_chilton]

Hi J,
I wonder if the 31-15 is more or less like my Adler Durkopp 267? Not sure about the roller foot--I don't think mine has that--but it's otherwise a flat bed single needle mid-range machine (I mean it sews up to mid-weight leather). I use it for anything flat, like sewing quarters to vamps. From what the ShoeSchool told us, the post machine can do everything the flat bed can do, and much more.

[dw]

Athan,

I don't know the Adler but if it is a bottom feed machine, chances are that a roller foot is made for it.

Most bootmakers and some shoemakers do almost all their assembly work on a flatbed such as the 31 class Singers. He'll correct me if I'm wrong but I think Tim uses a flat bed pretty exclusively.

Post machines are great and in a pinch they'll do most anything that a flatbed can do and more besides. But that's not to say a post will do it as nicely as a flatbed. If I could close shoes with precision on a flatbed, I'd use it/choose it over a post. As is, I do as much as I can on the flatbed and only resort to the post for the final closing sequences.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[athan_chilton]

Stitches, this is really interesting because the instructor at the shoe school feels exactly opposite! He uses his post machine (w/a treadle) for everything, apparently.

Why does the post machine not do things as nicely or precisely as the flat bed? My flat bed is only now starting to feel 'broke in'. At first, despite changing the pulley, it still went way too fast for me. Now sometimes I can get it to go nice and slow & can control it w/my foot, and sometimes by using my hand on the wheel too.

I've heard of 'serval' motors; do you know of them? Supposed to be infinite speed variability.

[dearbone]

Athan,

Welcome to the colloquy, I sew all my uppers on an Adler arm(cylinder)machine,although a shoe maker can get by by a flatbed,but once one starts to make ankle boots or higher,a good post or arm machine is a good idea,it takes some time to get used to the speed,but the folks here use a tennis ball to control the speed,flatbed is indispensable to the cowboy boot maker because of the amount of elaborate sewing they have make on the boots,so it is easier done on flatbed instead of the post or arm machine when we hold the work in the air to feed to machine.The best made foot wear(uppers) i have seen were sewn by hands.

Nasser

[dw]

Athan,

Mind you, I own and use both flatbeds and post machines...have done for over 35 years.

But when the work is supported across a wide surface it is easier to lay in a line of stitching both evenly and smoothly.

If you're stitching on a post machine and you raise or lower the surrounding leather significantly, it will minutely alter both the angle and the position of the needle as it enters the leather.

Now someone who is good with a post machine is probably not going to have much trouble in that regard but when you're doing ornamental stitching of the kind that is done on boot tops and you're putting in five to ten rows, closely spaced, a post machine is a disadvantage.

After all these years I will take the flat bed for a clean line of stitching over a post any day...although it may be that the discrepancies I obsess about wouldn't even be noticed by anyone else.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[athan_chilton]

Hi Nasser,
I am sure you are right about the best work being done by hand! I like sewing by hand though probably am not good at it yet. I can well imagine that the flat bed would be best for that fancy stitching on cowboy boots though.

[donrwalker]

Athan

I will add my 2 cents worth. I also use both a post and a flat bed. I make mostly western boots and would not like to give up either machine. As DW said, I might be able to do a creditable job of fancy stitching on the post but I'm much more comfortable on a flat bed for that job. Also since I top stitch and assembly stich with different sizes of thread, having two machines elimanates the need to adjust when changing thread size.

Don

[athan_chilton]

I hope it's true that one can't have too many machines...I'm still making changes to my Durkopp Adler flat bed, and learning about the Pfaff post machine...but today I wandered through a nearby Antique Tractor show/flea market & found a 1956 Singer, quite small but not the featherweight model, made in Scotland. It will sew leather, seemingly with no trouble. I am wondering if I could get a gimping attachment made for this little machine? I can post a photo if that would be of assistance. Can a machine be cute? If so, this one is. Maybe useful too!

[dearbone]

Athan,

contrary to common belief that Dick's gimping tool fits only on singer 31-15,i fitted mine on my Adler 69 arm machine and it works well.

Nasser