The Crispin Colloquy

I wish to add a 6oz underlay to ostrich leather for a box and I seem to recall reading elsewhere on this board that one does not glue the entire hide. Can anyone suggest a procedure?
As well, Barge has proven very harmful to me but I've heard about an adhesive, UPACO 1812 which is a recommended alternative. Can anyone comment re this item?

Ron,

I'm a little unsure what you are asking...if you are making shoes or boots, six ounce seems awfully heavy.

If you are making a box(?) then I guess it doesn't matter but it also doesn't matter how much of the hide you cement. Nor does it really matter what kind of adhesive you use--cement or glue. There are a number which would do the trick.

1812 is a water based neoprene contact cement that is about 80% as effective as the solvent based neoprene cements. If the solvents in Barge or Duall 88 bother you, 1812 would be a promising alternative.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

To All,

Since we are on the subjects of glues, cements et al. Does anyone still use the 'wallpaper paste' for linings? I find it excellent as it bonds great, cleans up so easy and does not bind the needle of my machine like cements do if you don't let it sit and cure. Also it allieviates stiffness in a fully lined boot. I have been using a product called 528 for soles and heels which works much better than the conventional cements and also cleans up very nicely.
JesseLee

Rob, Tom, and Mike:

Please let me have your comments on the whether the mid-sole should have been removed. See the photo. At one point in the mid-sole, the mid-sole can be separated very slightly from the sole using my hands.

Thanks.

Edward Andrews

Edward,

The picture doesn't look all that bad but it's not one of the best repair jobs. It was probably not pressed properly to get a secure bond between the out sole and mid sole. I do not see the chipped mid sole you referred to earlier but it's hard to see where the welt ends and the mid sole begins. This looks to me to be the foot balance model 312. If memory serves this model has a leather mid sole, I could be wrong on this but if it's leather and the mid sole is chipped these shoes have withstood some major abuse beyond normal wear. Chips in soft rubber mid soles happen but it should not happen in leather.

I obviously don't know if this was something that happened in the repair shop or before you dropped them off for repair. From what I can see you will not do any additional harm by continue to use the shoes unless the sole peals loose any further but for future repairs you may want to consider a different shop as this was not a great repair.
To answer your original question about replacing the mid sole, in this shoe the mid sole is of such a high grade that it should not be replaced every time the soles are replaced unless there is damage to the mid sole. you'll be hard pressed to find a repair shop that will put a new leather mid sole on and not charge you an arm and a leg only to end up with an inferior grade leather (at least my my neck of the woods, things may be better where you are). Having the work done by Alden may be your better option. Not that a firm rubber mid sole would not work just as well form a functional standpoint.

Just my

Rob

Hi All
I have been asked to make a Japanese Tabis Shoe. Thin leather used for Martial Arts. I Googled but not much info. Any one know how the pattern is made to accommodate the split toe. AKA the great toes has it's own pocket.
Help Please
Regards
Brendan

Check out this site, they make and sell leather Tabis.

http://www.leathertabi.net

Georgene

Georgene
Thanks for the site. I looked at it and it helps a bit. I still can't fiqure out were to put the seams so they don't rub or how the sole peice is attached.

Regards
Brendan

Brendan,
I give You a hint,you need a last(certain last) to produce the upper,by looking at the site of the tabe,i can produce it and make correction to the to what i saw, think hard and if you need more instructions, email me.Good luck.
Nasser

Hi All


Having Coffee, in great Deep thought this AM.
Went up to the shop. Took off shoes and socks wrapped right foot in 2 inch packing tape, including between toe 1 and 2. Drew front and back lines and sole peice. Carefully cut down back and front to in between toes and wiggled my foot out continued cutting around line. Layed on paper and flattened and tried to make a smooth line beteewn the toes for medial and lateral pieces. To intersect with the yet to be determinned toe slit on sole piece. Cut out of 1.5 - 2 0z. calf. glued and sewed flesh side for proto type ease. Started cementing at he heel and worked to keep edges lined up when I got to the toes i extended the toe slit back till every thing fit with no puckers. Sewed close to the edge for a turned butt seam and flipped inside out. smoothed edges and put on. Shocked as how the 1st fit felt. I will have to play with the toe slit as it is uncomfortable but not bad for a 1st shot. Instead of using velcro I used a lace.
about 2.5 hours start to finish, minimal head scratching, no cussing.
Regards
Brendan

Bravo, using your foot is that certain last with slit in the toe area i was refering to,the foot works just as well.

Drinking coffee,losing my thoughts over the orthopaedic shoe makers who are costantly seeking shoe makers knowedge without ever showing any of their own making to us here on this site, talk about looking down at the cobbler!we have few things to teach you docs.
Nasser

Amazon.com sells ninja tabis in various styles for between $35-39.00. Search on Ninja tabis and several pictures will come up that show other construction tips.

Georgene

Hi Nasser and Georgine
I guess this comes to understanding. Shoemakers have to be thinking outside the box. Can't fly to Japan to study, the original method. So out here I sit in the outback with one truck down with a bloewn steering pump and the other truck taking wife and kids to see the eye doc. Have to meet with client Wenesday . Have to keep moving. So I viewed the site and some others, most of them referred to a sock. Cotten or the like.

Through some idea I thought the top was 1 piece instead of two. As I worked thru the pattern making, I could not make the toe radius from one piece into the toe part. So looking at the web site the web site I realized that the two upper parts were shaped to accept the curve of the material to make a round edge and fit between the toe. With no seams on the planter edge. I don't wear thongs and the so I don't how it feels.

My daughter and wife put them on and were thrilled and wanted some . HUUUmmmm grass mowing?

I will share patterns best I can once I get the toe line figured out.

In the highest respect
Regards
Brendan

And Nassaer
How did you inlay the vamp on the black shoes with the smooth and pebbled leather. Mother of pearl or rhinestones?
Looks Sharp!
Regards
Brendan

No need to repeat myself,i gave a description on how the vamp was sewn,i think it is in the gossip thread around the same date.
Happy ninja day.
Nasser

(Message edited by dearbone on April 22, 2008)

Nasser,

First of all, there is definitely no looking down at cobblers! When I told my dad I wanted to step in the family tradition and become a shoe maker he send me to start in shoe repair. It's a great way, if not the best to learn how shoes are put together, opens one eye to different materials and all the different ways of assembly, it also teaches one to be innovative and think outside the box. All an all it makes a great stepping stools into the world of the cordwainers. I currently don't repair much other than the shoes I make but occasionally fill in at a friends shop and do enjoy it. I'm certainly not too good for that even if I choose not to make my living that way!

As for not showing off my work, your right. I usually don't do that. Looking at the shoes I make doesn't mean much until you know the story of the feet they are made for. They are much more function than fashion oriented. As this is a public forum I have reservations about putting such customer specific information on-line. If I made them for myself I'd post it all on the Colloquy but many of my customers are quite conscientious about their feet and foot condition and I choose to respect that, maybe to a fault.
I also don't think that most of the shoes I make reach the level of refinement shown in the gallery by you and others.

I am grateful for all the information that is shared on the Colloquy and you're right that you have a lot to teach us. That's why I'm here, to learn from all the makers out there generous enough to share their knowledge. In turn I will do my best to contribute to the best of my ability. Non of us knows it all. Some may think they do but only those willing to learn continuously have a fighting chance to excel in the gentle craft.
I will share my knowledge and experience with anyone who asks but if you want to see some of my work you'll have to come to my shop.

Thanks for letting me

Rob

(Message edited by relferink on April 22, 2008)

Rob,

You are a gentleman and scholar,point well taken about not being able to show your clients shoes,between you and me,i have few customers with polio and one even has a plastic foot, they come and order shoes or boots every year or two, one even said my shoes corrected his back pain,nothing against ortho shoe makers and maybe when the dust settles,i will come to visit your shop and others as well,i travel with a back pack and a sleeing bag and God's earth is vast.
Regards Nasser

(Message edited by dearbone on April 22, 2008)

Brendan,

I am currently making a pair of Tabis cause the ones I bought in Tokyo are too damaged. I unstiched one of them so see what the pattern looked like. I'll try to post pictures of it later today.

Nasser,

Looking forward to having you come visit, I'll make sure I have coffee brewing. Are you planning on going to Guthrie for this year's HCC annual meeting? It's a great way to get to meet a bunch of passionate cordwainers and put some faces to the names.

No surprise a well made shoe can help alleviate back pain or any other problem caused by poorly supported feet. Even if you don't incorporate any specific orthopedic features, the quality and fit of the hand made shoe can simply not achieved in mass production.

Rob

Oh screw it, I wont have time later... Here it is, hope it helps!! I dont know how to post an image though, so just click on the links

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Rob,

I looked up the distance from Toronto to Guthrie, 2000km and change, too far to walk it, don't like flying, but might be the only option,I will let you know soon,i already feel that i am going to a pilgrimage or something in that regard.I like to talk to my friend Rene,he might want to come along.
Regards Nasser

Joelle
Thanks for the pics. The seperate toe pieces would make a really busy intersection easier. What kind of closure do they have? I noticed they are lined do they have a firmer sole piece?
Nice to see another Canuck on the site.
Nasser
I didn't intend to infer your skills are lesser than mine. I would love to get an order for something fancy and focus on fashion instead of pain relief. That is just the way the market goes out this way!
I work in relative isolation, so I can't just ask the guy down the street. Also when you have a small victory you can jump up and down, but only my cats see this and probably think I am Nuts!. I also have no venue for feedback, good or bad. That is why I like this forum.
My Wife and kids are usually the critics of my work before it gets to the customer and they are also the "Guiana Pigs" when I have to try something I was not trained in.
I often try to think how something was made before industrial production methods. If they did it in Japan 1,000 years ago Hopefully I can fiqure it out!
As I refine the Tabis I will post all I know with the forum. So when the next shoemaker gets a request they won't have to wrap thier feet in tape or if they do It won't be working blind.
As the old saying goes "Invention is the mother of necessity" or to twist that futher "It is nessecary to have Mother's to have inventors" The mother that allows thier child to play, experiment and fail and get back up to try again, with loving support and guidance. is an inventor in progress. My late mother was born in a tar paper shack just before the Great depression. In south Sask with no trees in sight, they learned to make due with what they had and survived. They passed this on wether it was intentional or not. Which leads to my motto
They used to call me cheap, now they call me enviormentaly friendly.

Regards
Brendan

Brendan,
the idea is to bring into the fold,and to communicate with us in brotherly/sisterly manner and that is achieved, As for working in relative isolation,i think most of us do work in isolation,even if you are like me surrounded by 4 million souls,who come with their bagage too.i was gonna suggest something about producing a good upper for that tabi,if i may,i think i better send you a picture instead,if you can spare to cut into a last, you can produce a well balanced forme(upper)by taping the last and through the toe area.

Nasser
Thanks for the Pic
I just got off the phone with the client and they want something more like a ballet slipper. They want 3 pair for an upcoming dance/theatrical performance, and I have a short time line. One dancer in Vancouver one in Regina and one in New york. So when they start rehersal May 2, I have to get the leather flying so I can make them before the performance starts. I won't have time to make lasts especially from measerments taken from afar. So I am thinking of more of slip lasted method, using their feet as the last.
and the foregivness of light leather.
I looked on the Gossip about how you made the inlay in the upper of the black pebbled shoe and it seems to have been moved on to the great digital heaven.
Did you attend the PAC meeting in Ottawa last month?
Last thought, Have you looked into Via/Amtrack. They have trains that used to run from Union Station in Toronto to Chigaco, and with the dollar being in better shape this might make your trip less of a problem. I wished I could go the the conferance but no cash.
Pics of todays proto-type
Regards
Brendan