The Crispin Colloquy

Oops...just saw Mack's post. I think the key there is what Mack said about which way the scraper runs best and not digging too deep. And since the Kiwi has less dye than the Meltonian cream, that might help a bit too.

The great thing is that I find things that surprise me about this business every day.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Mike,

Looking at your pictures the sole looks like it has been in a bad fight. Wonder what the other guy looks like.
Nice boots. First thing coming to mind on the sole is the stain being absorbed unevenly. That will happen if the grain is taken off in an uneven way. Still those spots are quite dark. Have you tried a piece of scrap leather and finish it. See if it's something in the leather (not likely) or something that happens to the sole after you put it on and before you finish it.
Sorry I can't be of more assistance. It could be something obvious you do but I'm not picking up on it.

When I scrape I hold the glass in one hand, not both hands as in your picture so I don't press too hard. As Mack suggested, feel the glass do it's work, don't go to deep. The purpose is to just take the top of the grain off, not to dig down to the flesh side. You probably have to re-break your glass to do a full sole, once piece will get to dull.
Maybe this image helps.
Leather is a preserved skin. The black line under the new skin layer on the image will be the grain of the leather once tanned. The remaining epidermis and most of the dermis is your leather. The subcutaneous layer is discarded by the tannery and made into Jello. When you scrape you do not want to go through the epidermis layer. The image is not to scale and the epidermis is not very thick.

Rob

Mack,DW and Rob

Thanks for the insight on my bottom finishing. Things were looking pretty good till I started waxing the bottom of the boot with my iron. I've got other pair about ready for soles so we'll see if I can get it right. I want to master the bottom finish in order make myself better. Thanks again for the help and feed back.

Mike

Mike,

If you don't mind I'd like to figure out why things are not working out for you and you may just have given another clue.
You mention they look pretty good till you wax with your iron. What do you do when you finish the soles? Base on your first picture it looks like you have already taken of the grain on the walking sole before you start scraping with your glass. After you scrape the sole do you tape up the clear part of the sole as you work on the waist?

I don't use Iron's on the surface of my soles, just the side irons and the sides of the heels. Still I assume you only use your irons on the colored section of the waist?
In your third picture the sole doesn't look all that bad, is that just the angle of the picture and did it get worse by just sitting there absorbing the stain or as you were working with it?

What is the white powder that seems to be on the heel and the boot after you dye the shank?
I do finish the heels and edges before I start scraping my sole to protect it from getting stained but that may just be me.

Somewhere in there is probably the answer and if only we could see you work it would probably be obvious to at least one of the readers but maybe we can figure it out be dissecting what it is you do.

Rob

Hello All! My name is Geri and I live in Illinois in the USA. It is my first day ever knowing about this site. I am so excited, that I can barely type. I am new at making shoes. I recently made a shoe last out of maple for my daughter who is hard to fit. My head is spinning when I read about all the info on this site. I am desperately seeking to advance my skill level. Any help is appreciated. I would love to share pics.

Geraldine,

Welcome to the Crispin Colloquy. You may want to introduce yourself a little more formally over in the Registry.

No matter, glad to have you aboard. We look forward to seeing those photos. The Gallery is the place for them if they are finished shoes.

Emmett

Rob,

The picture pretty much is right on. I take the finish on the sole off before I wet them before putting them on the boot. I then place them on the boot and trim and sew them. the next moring I peg them and then use the numeg on the shank area. Then I built the heel. I then sprayed some water on the sole and started scraping the sole. I then started using some 220 grit wet/dry sand paper with some water( white power looking stuff on the boots) I then contiued changing to finer grits until I finished with 800 grit. I then stain the shank area with dark brown dye. I then stain the forepart with a saddle tan dye. This might be were the problem is I then used a yankee wax stick with a hot iron to finish the sole. At frist it looked as if the wax was going to work well but as I worked on it more the dark areas began to show up. I hope this helps. If not I'll do a video on the next boot. Thanks again for the help.

Mike

Ah, ha! Now we are getting somewhere.

Why do you take the finish of the sole before you set it? If you leave the grain on it will protect the sole from dirt and smudges, not just the superficial ones that you can just sand off but also the ones that penetrate and potential interfere with your finish.
Set the sole, sew and peg. Now only scrape or rough the area you need to attach the heel to. Finish the edges and heel and only than scrape the grain off your sole, both in the shank and the walking part of the sole and dye your shank area.

The only other thing that I'm not sure about is using Yankee wax on the sole. With the wax it makes sense you use an iron to work it into the leather but if you try the polish Mack mentioned I bet you will have a much better result, if not near perfect. I have no experience using any type of saddle dye. Others may be able to give you the pros and cons on that.

I would still be interested to see a video of your boots. I know I will be able to learn from that and maybe even get brave enough to eventually try making a pair myself.

Rob

Mike,

The Yankee wax is the culprit!

Try using some "ink". I like Fiebings "Reliable". It's actually a wax burnishing ink.

Or you could use some shoe polish.

Just my two cents worth.

Good luck....Jake

Dee-Dubb,

Are you using any latex cement now? We use to use latex to inhibit any interactions with the wax on our inseaming threads. Since we're using dacron now, just wondering if there's a need.

Since my hiatus from the shop, most of my cements are ....well....solid! Such a shame because it amounted to quite a bit of money. Not quite sure if I want to spend more than I need on renewing my supplies.

Thanks in advance!

Jake

Dee-Dubb,

Been thinking....forgot about using it when working with oily leathers.

Hmmmm.....

Jake,

I still use latex...or water-based AP...for all the reasons you mention.

Midwest Chemical is where I'm getting mine, right now.

BTW, some of your cements, it they aren't too far gone might be able to be rehabilitated--press cement for sure, even if it's hard. Dual88, if it's still a little soft can be reconstituted with copious amounts of thinner. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything to be done about the water-based AP.

Hope that helps.

Rob and All

Here's a picture of the bottom of a boot which I repaired and then used your suggestion to finish the bottom of the boot. I think everything worked really well. Let me know if you see anything that might help to make things even better. Thanks again for the help.

Mike

I am resoling a pair of military Jump Boots.
The boots had two outer soles, the first leather, and the second neoprene. I have the soles on now what glue will work best to apply the hard formed rubber heals? I noraly use barge, will that work well with neoprene and rubber?

Thanks,
Joe

Joe I have had nothing but problems with these since Barge changed their formula. I have had luck by using neoprene cement for diving suits. Masters, dinardis, jet set all failed either at the toe or under the shank. As usual rough up clean with a good thinner apply cement let dry and stick. I have had better luck cold pressing with out heat activation but I use a last and a sole press.
LOL
Tom

Thank you for the tip. I have a dive shop in town and will try them for the glue.

Joe

Joe,
One other tip for those dense neoprene rubbers, would be to wipe it down with Acetone as a primer before applying all purpose cement.
Paul

I'm not sure where to put this question, so if it belongs somewhere else please move it.

I am almost done handsewing my side seams. I was wondering if you roll your tops dry or do you soak them first? Also do you roll the top of the uppers inside the boot or outside of the boot?

Thanks for any advice in advance, Joel

Joel,

Turn them dry if possible. Feel like turning them wet stretches the tops. That said, have had boots that required wet and a hammer to get them turned. I roll to the inside. Never even thought of rolling to the outside, might work.

Chuck

Pedestrian resoling question:

I have a pair of Alden shoes that I recently had re-soled. The mid-sole was not removed by the shoe repairperson as part of the job. Some sections of the mid-sole are heavily chipped, and the new sole does not seem fully adhered to the mid-sole.

Am I correct that the mid-sole should have been replaced by shoe repairperson?

Thanks.

Edward Andrews

Edward,

If you could maybe post a picture of the shoe it would help. If the mid sole is heavily chipped then I would think that I would have replaced it in my shop. But without seeing the shoe it's hard to say for sure.


Mike

Edward it depends on the construction of the shoe, in a disturbing trend I have seen a large number where the midsole is a molded plastic shape that is attached to the shoe by only glue and the shoe itself is only glue lasted. This means that when you heat the midsole to remove it the entire shoe may come apart. If the repair man does not have a variety of lasts and the skills of a shoemaker he may not be able to put it back together. Some of these are also only a plastic rim with a foam center. I have had more then one that turned from a half sole job into a completely relasted and soled shoe.
Tom

Edward,

The short answer to your question is that the shoe repair probably should have replaced the mid sole. There are some circumstances that may justify not replacing the mid-sole. Being quite familiar with Alden I know they do not use plastic mid-soles, injection molding and all those techniques that make repairs harder without damaging the shoe. Unfortunately there are many higher end men's shoe manufacturers that have resorted to those techniques to save a few pennies.
I suspect the repair person may not have had the equipment or skill to sew the mid-sole back without puncturing more holes in the welt. Doing this will make the welt weaker so if my suspicion is correct this shoe repair did you a favor by not causing more damage. Still you do want to find someone who can do the job properly. If memory serves Alden does offer their own shoe restoration program, this includes extensive repairs and re-lasting the shoe. Don't know if it's initiated through the dealer you bought the shoes from or direct with the factory, call them for details: (508) 947-3926

The walking sole should be securely fastened to the mid-sole. As Mike suggests, a picture would help to see to what extend the mid-sole is chipped and we may even be able to tell you if this is something you can let go till the next time you need repairs or if it needs to be addressed immediately to prevent further damage to the shoes.

Rob

Anyone know what this is? I suspect some type of heel seat measurer but would love answers from someone with old tool knowledge.
Thanks,
Georgene

Rob, Tom, and Mike:

Please let me have your comments on the whether the mid-sole should have been removed. See the photo. At one point in the mid-sole, the mid-sole can be separated very slightly from the sole using my hands.

Thanks.

Edward Andrews