Tools of the Trade

[dw]

Jake,

I'm not that easy! First you got to send flowers! Then maybe some chocolate. Write me some poetry.

With regular stone wheels you want the wheel rotating *towards* the edge of the blade.That's the default way that the motors are set up. You need to set the blade on the wheel so that sparks are coming off the wheel below the knife. Then you change the angle so that the sparks are coming off the wheel just over the edge of the knife. Doing it that way ensures that you are grinding a correct, flat bevel and that you are also sharpening the edge. Of course that assumes that you already have pretty much the correct bevel on the knife.

With the paper sharpening system you need to approach the wheel with the blade edge down...so that the wheel rotates *off* the edge. (Turning the knife edge to sharpen like you would with a stone wheel, is an invitation to disaster, as the knife will catch on the wheel.)

To my mind, that was a hassle and seemed dangerous. I couldn't see the edge of the knife as well as I liked and the blade always had a force (the spinning wheel) pushing it at me. So I turned the machine around....tried to figure a way to reverse wire the motor but it's a cheapie. Once I got the machine turned around, I could see (and control) the edge better and the force imparted to the knife was always away from me. It's awkward to turn the machine on and I need to remind students that the machine is rotating opposite of what they expect but it's a good system once you get used to it.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[JP]

Hey Jake:
Nice photos, what kind of digital camera do you have...nice close up shots...

JP

[jake]

Hey Joe,

I've got a Sony CD Mavica with a Carl Zeiss lense. 3.3 megapixels and a 3x optical zoom lense, if my memory serves me right. By today's standards, it's "old-timey". It's hard to stay updated with electronics. It's moving way to fast for us bootmakers.

Glad to hear from you!

[jake]

Rosemary,

As D.W. stated, you need to approach the wheel with the blade edge down...so that the wheel rotates *off* the edge. Also, as with stones, you need to sharpen one side of the blade until you feel a "wire" on the opposite side of the blade. The "wire" is the edge getting so thin that it's rolling past vertical. Turn the blade over and then do the same thing to that side. Follow with some type of polishing compound on the right wheel.

Hope this helps!

Dee-Dubb,

Darlin', Darlin'
My true love!
Come a swoopin'
Like a dove!

That's enough!

[dw]

Jake,

[sniff} that's a start...still no flowers or chocolate, though. And I require lots of all three before I'll pucker up.

BTW, the paper wheel system is just for honing. Some people don't really understand that. Sure there's grit on it--I've re-gritted mine three times already. But the rough grind--the bevel--has to already be on the knife before the knife is ready for the paper wheel. Those of us who are mildly competent with the finisher can put the bevel on the knife with the bottom wheel and then move to the paper honing system. But I'm becoming more and more convinced that a good slow speed grinder is almost a required tool in a boot shop especially if you have really high quality tools that you don't want to ruin or grind away to nothing.

Oh, and another thing...always keep a jar or a spritz bottle of water nearby, both with the finisher and the honing wheel. And keep your fingers on the blade near where you are grinding/honing. Even with the proprietary(?) wax, the paper wheel can burn the edge of a knife, and the finisher will burn it in an instant. Having your fingers on the knife will help you pull away before the metel gets so hot it loses its temper. And having the water nearby will cool the metal so that heat doesn't build up and you don't burn your fingers...or the edge.

If you see that the edge of the blade has turned blue (even a tiny sliver of the edge), it's lost its temper and you might as well rough grind all that off, because it will never hold an edge.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[jake]

Dee-Dubb,

But the rough grind--the bevel--has to already be on the knife before the knife is ready for the paper wheel. Those of us who are mildly competent with the finisher can put the bevel on the knife with the bottom wheel and then move to the paper honing system.

Great that you mentioned that. I sometimes forget or take too much for granted. We have some knife makers around here, and they pretty much use a belt sander and a paper honing system to put an edge on a knife.

Now, I've been through Rolla, Missouri. I stopped by the local Waffle House, and I heard a different story than you're telling concerning your "willingness to pucker". Forgot exactly what they said, but "easy" was definitely mentioned.

[dw]

Hub,

Ah, Rolla...[sigh] I left there when I was about 13, you know. But I'm sure some of the girls...er, I guess they'd be "ladies," now and maybe even waitresses...remember me and all the good times we had down by the crick (or behind the old glaucoma clinic).

But "easy" when you're thirteen and "easy" when you're grown are two different things. I'd've kissed near anything that was female when I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen...and might have. Time I hit sixteen some of them were even kissing back.

'Course nowadays, you don't want to kiss anyone without written permission and a 30 day wait.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[gcunning]

I'M TYPING WITH one finger - left. I'm not going back and correct simple mistakes. Fight with 1/2" dimond plate, I lost.
-Jake - cut rail with big cut saw- @ 3hours.
next time wiill user BIG torch
Tex and all remind me closer to round up and if I have it I will get you some.

Jake marking insole IS easier ,for me at least.
Looks like way I was taught

Sharping has many facets Rough edge, dull,semi sharp. As many problem solvers, buffer,stones, grinder-paper wheels, grinder.
Cooling/keep temper - water, M mystry oil, bar and chain, ever see red you have gon to far.
Be carful of reg. grinder using oil- causes glaze- overheats and can shater.
Sorry so criptic- not good with one finger typing

[jake]

Gary,

Hope you're not hurt too bad. Don't worry about mistakes. We'll wade through'em. Just keep on "peckin'"!

[gaid]

D.W.
-------
On the other hand, I got to tell you I've seen so many insoles...beyond count...more than I care to remember...that have broken out along the inseam when the insole was channeled with the knife.
-------

Do I read you right, are you saying that you have seen so many shoes/boots where the maker have ruined the insole when channeling it? Didn't I tell you before that the use of a stip of canvas glued on the insole (what do you call the technique?) is a good thing;-) Seriously, if a maker have a problem with making the insole right or if there is a problem to find good insole leather this is a good technique. I have so far never, ever, seen a boot broken out along the inseam made this way.

I know that this is kind of a "provokative" technique since setting up the insole by hand is perhaps, a trade mark. But I can't see any reason to cling to a technique if there is a risk to ruin the boot by using it. Having said this, I use both. Another thing, if a customer ask if the boot will hold up longer by using the old technique I have to tell them I have not yet noticed any different.

JEM

[cmw]

Janne

Are you talking about putting a "geman" on the insole?

A Cold Texan
CW

[dw]

Janne,

What I have seen is that when the insole is channeled using a knife held at an angle, the insole tends to break out along the lowest level of the inside channel. I believe this is partially because the insole gets dried out and cracks along the inside channel just because that's the point of least resistance. And partially because cutting the inside channel with an angled knife leaves the insole cut nearly in half and puts the stitches (where so much stress is applied as the stitch is being tightened down) so close to the grain surface.

All things being equal, an insole will crack on the grain surface no matter what you do. If you have a pair of shoes or boots that are older than...oh, let's say a year old...reach into them and feel the grain surface of the insole. Depending on how much perspiration and heat your feet generate, chances are good that you will feel tiny cracks in the surface of the insole particularly in the joint area. These cracks...this drying out of the insole...only gets worse as time goes by. That's one of the reasons I tallow all my insoles--to create a reservoir of conditioning to ward against this drying out and cracking. Left untreated, or with techniques that create "built-in obsolescence," a boot or shoe may be lost long before the vamp and/or uppers have lost their beauty much less their usefullness.

As for "gemming"...I've seen as many, or more, boots where the gemming slipped and the fit and the integrity of the boot was irrevocably ruined with the gemming techniques as I've seen boots lost to cracking insoles. This may be due to the way that the gemming is applied and/or used--you may have a technique that I've not encountered but over the years I've come to regard gemming as a technique that yields a far lower quality than any other method of preparing the insole for inseaming.

On the other hand, I have never seen nor experienced break out of the insole when the inside channel is a shallow groove as opposed to a cut. Keep in mind that I used the cut method for more than 20 years before I switched.

For me, the choice was obvious and clear cut once I started looking at the data...once I brought to bear the years of knowledge that I had accumulated both in making and repairing.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dw]

An additional thought or two: Bear in mind that I, and Jake, and many bootmakers use an insole that is roughly 10 1/2 - 11 iron thick. Individually cut and prepared from a belly or shoulder strip. However, this is significantly thicker than most commercial bootmakers use and thicker than most bespoke shoemakers prefer. And if you buy your insoles precut, chances are very good that they will be more like 9 iron than even 10.

Using a knife to cut an inside channel on an 11 iron insole is a very different proposition than using a knife on a 9 iron insole. By the time you've channeled the 9 iron insole, how much substance is left between the threads and the grain surface of the insole? For those pondering the question at length, let me jump right to the answer--very dern little!! Maybe as little as a sixteenth of an inch. Sometimes you'll even see the inseaming threads "ghosted" on the grain surface of the insole--even on cowboy boots.

While watching Al Saguto prepare an 8 iron (maybe even an 7 iron) insole for inseaming I was waiting with some trepidation [one hates to see a friend demonstrate such severe character flaws as poor judgement ] to see how he would handle the inside channel...because I knew dern well that I wouldn't use an 8 iron insole on anything. Al's solution was to make the inside channel with a *pencil*...period! The inseam began on the flesh surface of the insole...no cut, no groove ...nada! That's when the light bulb went off.

Sometimes, it's the little things...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[texrobinboots]

DW, Jake, et all,

I am sure that this channeling subject will never be resolved on this forum because as I have said before, talking boots is not the same as making them. No real pun intended. But here are the facts as I see them: I have been using the inferior channeling method that you are trashing out here for nearly 50 yrs. Yes, nearly 50 years. Not 20 or 10 or any other number. I have seen other makers claim that it is no good any more. But I say that is mainly because something else is easier or some tool has been made to obsolete the plain old knife. I have not seen the problems with my boots that you speak of here. Yes, maybe with the thin insoles, but not with 9 and 10 iron ones. I hate to pull rank on anybody here but I am after all speaking with the most seniority on the subject. Aren't I ? Has anybody been channeling their insoles with the old method longer than I have? I will stick with it!.......TR

[gaid]

D.W.
I cement the gemming on the insole with all purpose cement. Then I hammer it down to be sure it sticks to the insole. I have used this technique for 25 years and I have never had any problem with it. It was also used in the orthopeadic trade in Sweden for more then twice that time and I have never heard any complains about it.

Regarding to the thickness of the insole most bespoke shoemaker use, I can only speak for my self and I choose the thickness of the insole depending of the weight of the client. For an heavy client I choose an heavy insole and for a light client there will be a light insole and so on. Normally they will be between 7½ up to 10½. I use the same kind of insole leather when I use the gemming technique but I split them down to 6 iron.

Chris
"Geman" could be the same as gemming.

JEM

[jake]

D.W.,

Using a knife to cut an inside channel on an 11 iron insole is a very different proposition than using a knife on a 9 iron insole.

Could not agree with you more! Good point! I wouldn't even consider using the diagonal knife cut with a thinner insole. Not even with my new knife with a shoulder to help.

I wish someone (Janne would ya?) would post a pic of the gemming in action.

[texrobinboots]

Jake,
E-mail me....TR

[dw]

Tex, all,

You're right...nothing will be solved here in this discussion. Fact is, it's a fundamental mistake to think that the forum, or any of these discussions exist to resolve differences of opinion. That was never in the works. These discussions exist simply to compare notes and preserve techniques and perhaps to generate some study and deliberation on any particular subject.

Beyond that, as much as I admire you, Tex...and I believe I treat you with as much deference as I treat anyone I admire...I don't accept your right to claim precedence due to seniority. Never have, never will. Nor do I accept anyone's "I've been doing it that way for x number of years and never had any problems." Next, someone will claim they've been making boots for 75 years and never had a misfit. I don't even extend that kind of credibility to my ownself.

What I think is useful is an explanation. Reasons why a technique may be good or why it may be flawed. The emphasis here is on reason and reasoning. If I can show, through logic, or even test data, that iron nails rust and rust is a slow fire and heat destroys leather then my assertion that "iron tacks rot boots" is every bit as credible...in fact, more so in my opinion, than a "I've been doing it that way for..., etc." Those kinds of statements are, in my view simply a cheap way to say, "I'm right and I don't want to talk about it anymore."

I don't mean to offend and my comments are not aimed specifically at you, Tex, or Janne, or anyone else but at attitudes that destroy trust and sharing and learning. If I have offended you with my forthrightness, I sincerely apologize, and ask for your forgiveness. But, bottom line is, I put more stock in results than in claims or reputation or any of that.

Tell me in detail, and with descriptions, why you think your techniques work so flawlessly. Or if that's not enough tell me why and where you think my reasoning is flawed. I promise to listen and consider your words seriously. *That*, to me is the utmost respect that I can give...or that anyone deserves.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[texrobinboots]

All,

Can anyone tell me where to get the clear plastic(not plexiglass)to make patterns and what it is called? Gary....Carl uses it......TR

[texrobinboots]

DW,

I don't think I should need to explain in detail why I do a certain procedure. I think my reputation should explain that. And I do think that almost 50 yrs of making boots means something. What I personally think is that you just don't believe that there is anyone at all in this whole bootmaking world that can possibly do anything better than you or can know anything that you don't believe you can have the last word
on.....

[texrobinboots]

DW,

I don't think I should need to explain in detail why I do a certain procedure. I think my reputation should explain that. And I do think that almost 50 yrs of making boots means something. What I personally think is that you just don't believe that there is anyone at all in this whole bootmaking world that can possibly do anything better than you or can know anything that you don't believe you can
have the last word on. Neither you or I is the bootmaking god or know it all.......TR

[gaid]

Jake
I didn't have any order comming up with an gemmed insole so I arranged this one for you

2584.jpg

I will try to remember and send a photo next time I have a pair on the table.

JEM

[jake]

Janne,

Thanks for the example!

That looks like a thick cord with a canvas backing. That will stand up to your inseaming with just cement? I'll be dog! I've heard about gemming, but I had never really seen any.

Once again, I sure do appreciate your time and consideration.

Take care!

[gcunning]

Tex I got mine at Lowes. I Don't remember the nme
but its over with the all-thread and rod stock. I'll try find name.

[gaid]

Jake
You are welcomme!
Right, it is a thick cord with a canvas backing and it will stand up during the whole process with cement only. I use to back it up in the toe area with a piece of insole leather during the lasting. If you don't trust the cement you could secure it by using the patcher. I'll send you a yard if you want to test it. Just let me know.
Janne