Thread

[dw]

Jenny,

Thanks for the thread source. I looked at their website and am glad to have another source for Nymo (a nylon monocord that I prefer for bobbin).

I would note, however, that if you call Goldberg and ask for a thread chart, chances are what you get will so boggle your mind that you'll hard pressed to order from any other source.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[tommick]

Paul,
I've bought most of my thread from The Thread Exchange. They gave me a login and password and they set me up for a discount.

I get super fast shipping to here in FL. and they ship real fast after they get the order.

BTW - I have no personal interest or gain from The Thread Exchange.

Tom Mickel

[firefly]

Gang,

I received my thread chart from Goldberg today and I was impressed. It was well worth the $35. Very nice folks to deal with. I dealt with Courtney De Young. I mentioned that they had gotten some positive press on the forum and she said she would come check out the site.

It looks like they deal mostly with the small timers like Nike and Reebok so when I told her that the HCC would be comming at her she said they would beef up.

Thanks,

Mark

[dw]

Mark,

If you have a digital camera why not photo your thread chart and post it here? Photos won't be accurate enough colour-wise (especially on the 'net) to actually make selections from but it might help others decide whether its worth forking out the green for a chart.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[firefly]

DW,

Will do.

Thanks,

Mark

[j1a2g3]

I am having problems with my top thread unraveling after about 15 to 20 stitches.

I am trying to sew 7/8oz latigo upper, 3/4oz cream cow lining and 2/3oz latigo bellow tongue together. Also a padded collar between the upper and lining. The thread is Bonded Nylon #46. The Needle is 125/20 with a 3 side chisel point.

I was thinking of loosening the bobben tension which in turn would allow me to loosen the top thread tension. Is my guess correct, in that taking tension off both threads, the threads would go through easier?

I'm I correct in assuming that it is not the amount of tension you have on the thread but that both tension need to be equal

The machine is a Plaff Double Needle Post Machine if that helps any.

Thanks in advance for any advice, Joel

[artzend]

Joel,

Some reasons for this happening are that the leather is thicker than the machine was set for then the wheel can be forced over and hits the needle, cutting the threads. This usually happens a little way into the stitching. To fix this just move the presser wheel out a bit. You need to keep the pressure on so the work doesn't jump, but moving the wheel will fix this problem. It sounds as though you are stitching through a lot of thickhesses.

I am not sure about your choice of needle. The chisel point you are describing sounds like a patent leather needle. For most leather sewing the needle should be a two sided chisel needle, so the thread lays in a particular way on the surface.

Check that there are no burrs on the needle point too. That will shred thread too.

You are right about needing the tensions equal. You don't really want the other thread showing either on top or underneath. They should pull into the centre. You could loosen the thread and see what happens.

Make sure that the stitch length is long enough for the needles you are using.

Tim

[jesselee]

All

I am using a patcher thread designation E 20. It is a 2oz. I would like to go a bit thicker, and I know it was done with the old Bradbury that I use. The thread is run through a little bowl of Neetsfoot oil, which allows the thread to go through the leather, but I can't find the next few sizes up. I would prefer a linen. Also need to know the biggest (thickest) needle designation for a patcher.
I only have one Bradbury shuttle, so am cutting down (re-machining)some 29-K2 shuttles and bobbins to fit, for thinner and thicker threads. Any advice is appreciated.
JesseLee

[j1a2g3]

Tim

Thanks for your response.

I went back and looked at the needle shape with a magnifing glass and it is just two sided.

The Presser wheel doesn't move. It is held in place with a single screw and is not slotted.

The 20 stitches that do work don't have the bottom or top thread showing through. So the tensions are equal.

Also, this doesn't happen on thiner leathers and is becoming quite frustrating. I am so close to being able to put a boot together, if only I could get the machine to run right.

Tomorrow, I will try loosing the tension, top and bottom and will put in a bigger needle and increase the stitch length a little. With a little luck maybe everything will fall into place. Joel

[artzend]

Joel,

I still think that you need to slide the wheel away from where it is now. With most machines you don't need to loosen anything, just put some pressure on it with your hands and twist it. The shaft generally is not locked solid and this allows you to swing the wheel. You can swing it back when you have finished this job. Can you post a closeup of the presser wheel with a bit of the shaft showing?

You can see how it presses inward towards the needle if you sew slowly and if it does then this is your problem. Another thing to check is that the hole in the plate is smooth, if this is jagged from being hit by needles it can cut the bobbin thread. I am assuming that the top thread is your problem. Tension should not be enough to break a top thread, especially as you are using nylon.

Bobbin tension does not have to be the same as the top thread for stitching to work. If the bobbin is looser then the top stitching will pull it up to the surface and vice versa, but it will still sew.

Your cutting problem is different I think and has more to do with the pressure on the presser foot, but if you release the pressure the work will probably jump.

tim

[artzend]

Jesse Lee,

I used to have #21 needles for my patcher, that makes a big hole. Not sure that they would come much bigger.

If you use a #50 polyfil thread it is still strong enough to hold but you can get more on a bobbin.

tim

[dw]

Joel,

There is no hard and fast rule about this, but a size 125 needle is pretty big. A size 90 ought to be large enough especially with size 46 thread.

Tim has given you most of the reasons that your thread could be unraveling. I would, additionally, take the shuttle and the shuttle driver out of the machine and examine everything carefully for burrs and or excessive build-ups of dirt and "goop."

Put everything back together and try to sew with the needle plate off the machine...or if not the needle palte there is usually a bobbin cover that can be removed...so that you can see the way in which the bobbin hook comes around. Often you can see something that might not be apparent, otherwise--like the bobbin hook hitting the needle just slightly or trying to pick up the thread too late. Sometime machines like this need some timing after they have been used for a while.

Finally, what did you use for cement on the latigo? If you used a regular all-purpose or a rubber cement, you might find that it is the cement that is fouling your needle. Check after stitching an inch or so and see if there isn't "goop" built-up on the side of the needle. It will be subtle but a simple wipe with your fingers may get you another inch before you have to wipe it again.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[jesselee]

Tim

Is the #21 needle the one that is the same diameter as the shank? Or same diameter as shank with bigger channel for the thread?

I am only using cotton or linnen threads to be in period, so they may be hard to find.

I do know that the Bradbury A1 Stitcher like the 2 I have had an ajustable arm, that is to say the forepiece which holds the shuttle came in 2 sizes; One size was the common arm which sews with patcher thread, the other arm held a bigger shuttle dor heavier thread. They change with 2 bolts underneath. Pretty advanced system for it's time.

Jesse

[j1a2g3]

DW, Tim

Here are pictures of the presser foot and arm. I just realized it is in the raised position when I took the shots.

5214.jpg

5215.jpg

Tim I don't see how to bend the arm. I'm I moving the arm towards the front of the machine or away from the needle?

DW I was using 2 pieces of non-glued scraps so I could see if the adjustments were right. I never start sewing without checking how this machine is working.

Another thing I noticed today, is when the material is placed under presser roller there isn't much room left. I don't know if that matters at all.

Thanks for both your help. Sorry to say; I am not much of a Tinker. Joel

[dw]

Joel,

Two things...

First, I think from your description, you're just trying to sew more than the machine can handle as far as thickness goes.

When the needle goes down through the leather, it reaches the bottom and then (with some machines, not all) it usually comes up a fraction and then goes back down just a little. This creates a loop under the leather which the shuttle hook catches. Some machines don't have that up and down motion, just relying on the friction of the leather to create the loop. But, particularly with this latter type, if the "stack" is too thick for the machine, the loop is never formed (or formed too late) and the bobbin hook only gets part of the thread. This only has to happen once and every other stitch from that point forward will be stranded.

If the presserfoot is riding too close to the needle, as Tim suggests, and thus abrading the thread, you can slip a piece of thin cardboard--like index card material or matchbook cover material) between the presserfoot armature and the needle bar. That means you'll have to take the presserfoot off and fit the cardboard in there with a hole in it so the presserfoot can be bolted back on.

People are not always given their ideal choice about which machines they find or can afford, but I would not want to be in your shoes with that double needle machine. It seems like double troubloe to me. Just my take...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[artzend]

Joel,

If you push on the wheel in the open position (you can do it in the normal position, you just need to press upward a bit or it just opens) and it will generally move a bit. The grubscrew at the top never seems to be particularly tight. You are not trying to bend anything, just pivot the position of the wheel to move it away from the needle.

Try pushing and see if it works, the way that DW is describing by putting card in between would serve the same purpose of keeping the wheel away from the needle.

You can move it back again later.

As DW says you may have too much material, and as he says the needle size may be too big. I would try a thinner needle, but it must be bigger than you would use for that thread under normal circumstances.

(Message edited by artzend on July 16, 2007)

[j1a2g3]

Tim, DW

I run the machine by hand with no thread or top cover plates. The roller footer isn't close to the needle.

I did notice that it seemed to get stuck a little when I turned the wheel by hand. I had to back it off a tad and then proceed forward everytime it would stick. I didn't see anything hitting in the bobbin casing.

So, I have become friends with a clobber who is just around the corner. He has let me use his curve needle machine. I think he is amazed that someone is trying to make boots. Anyway, he recommended taking it to his repairman and seeing if he could set it up right. So tomorrow it goes in to his shop. Joel

[artzend]

Jesse Lee,

I got hold of a repairer friend and he tells me that 24 is the biggest but you need to re arrange the plate for the bigger hole to be used. It would be like trying to use a pencil for a needle I reckon.

Tim

[dearbone]

Dear friends, I am badly in need of thread for hand sewn shoes,The kind I use is BARBOUR CAMPBELL linen single shoe, The small rolls,But I will buy similar thread as second choice.If you know where I might find the item, please leave me a message here or email me at nasservies@sympatico.ca My name is Nasser and I am a shoe maker in Toronto, Canada. Many Thanks.

[admin]

Nasser,

You can also do a "keyword search of the forum...for instance searching for "linen thread" with a match criteria of "all," and limited to "Open Forum" brings up 53 matches. Varying your search, such as "shoe thread" or just "thread" or using match criteria of "or" will yield even larger results.

Also the trick to posting photos is contained in the "formatting" instructions on the left hand side of the screen. There is also a "test" topic where you can experiment with posting photos. all posts in the Test topic are subject to deletion by Admin...at Admin's convenience. Photos should not exceed 640 pixels by 480 pixels at 72 dpi.

Yr. Hmb. Svt.

[lancepryor]

Nasser:

Welcome to the Colloquy. It is nice to have some shoemakers joining.

If you look at this e-bay listing (http://cgi.ebay.com/36-VINTAGE-1946-ACADIA-HEMP-THREAD-10-BALLS_W0QQitemZ1301623 84639QQihZ003QQcategoryZ28172QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), you will find a real bargain. This guy has been selling off a supply of this thread for a couple of years -- it is from 1946 or thereabouts! It is in pretty darned good shape, perhaps a bit brown but still strong and soft. I have bought a lifetime supply from the guy. This thread is also #10 and is equivalent to the Barbour #10 hand shoe thread. At the price, it is certainly worth a try, 36 balls for a buck a ball. If you do try it, let us know what you think.

I believe they still sell the Barbours in the UK, but the stuff made here in the USA is wet spun and is not nearly as nice.

(Message edited by lancepryor on October 14, 2007)

(Message edited by lancepryor on October 14, 2007)

[dearbone]

Dear lance, thank you for your message about the thread on ebay,I bid for a box of 36 rolls,I will let you know how it is if I win the bid.Thanks. How do I do without you!

[dw]

Dern! Lance! I missed that one. I would have bid on that myownself. Now Nasser has the high bid and I won't bid on it...if only because I know that I wouldn't get as much use out of it as Nasser.

But hey! If that guy offers any more of it, let me know...first!!

Oh well, I've got to go wrap some plum pudding I made for Christmas--they need to age and be "fed" with a little brandy for six weeks or more.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dearbone]

Dear DWFII, Thank you for letting me have this one, I am on my last roll of thread and I sew most of my orders using Irish linen thread which I waxed and twiste . I will let you know, If the seller has more.

[dw]

Nasser,

You haven't got it yet! There's still two days to go. I'm not saying that I'm gonna bid on it, 'cuz I'm not. But someone else might. Just keep this thought (if you don't mind a small piece of advice)...they ain't making no more of this. And if it's circa 1960 or earlier, it's probably premium stuff with a long staple yarn. No matter what you pay for it, you'll be getting a deal. That said, I hope you can get it for fifty cents a box.

I still have some very good Irish Campbell, but I've switched to dacron for my inseaming thread and as much as I respect those who still inseam with linen and as much as I love the old ways, I actually think the dacron is better.

That said, good luck!!(Here's some cheerleaders for you! "Nasser, Nasser, Nasser" )

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC