Seeking knowledge or survey

[marc]

Let's try for something a little less blurry.

5795.jpg

Marc

[amuckart]

Thanks for posting that, it's really good to have visuals to aim for.

Just to help me understand what I'm looking at better, what is the undyed bit down the middle of the seam, and what sort of awl was that done with?

Cheers.

[marc]

As I recall, he scraped the top of the seam to help flatten it (me, I just a hammer), so that's the undyed leather.

As for the awl, I *think* he was using one of those science fictiony bent awls (as opposed to a good straight stabbing awl).

Actually, for practice, use a small bent/curved awl until you get a feel for the leather, before you start messing with the straights, since they are much easier to work with.

Something I do suggest to students as an exercise is to take scraps of leather and sew them together, even if they aren't making anything. A the work shop at the end of July, they took about three inch rectangles, cut them up and reassembled them. Then edged them for top band practice.

Marc

[headelf]

I'm anticipating ordering some kangaroo skins. Any general guidelines on what to look for? What should I expect in terms of weight, yield/waste, price per square foot, etc. My first priority is to use it for beading.

Any tried and true sources you'd recommend for color selection, service, congeniality?

Thanks,
Georgene

[artzend]

Georgene,

Just bear in mind that kangaroo is a wild animal, not farmed, and is likely to have a lot of scratches and marks on the skin which may cause a lot of waste, but that shouldn't matter for beading.

Tim

[das]

Georgene,

I've gotten some loverly 100% veg-tanned, heavy roo in naked finish black and browns, struck through, from John Fong in CA. Nice big skins too. If you get a clear piece it's almost a ringer for coarse calfskin, but has the highest tensile strength of any leather. Way too nice, and strong, (and expensive) for mere beading IMO. Try making some uppers out of it--you should like it.

Fong has no website that I know of, but I think his phone number is on the CC someplace in archives perhaps.

[jtoth4]

Georgene,

John Fong's phone is (415) 441-3519
Call between 12p.m. and 4p.m. PST
I have been to his shop on Hyde Street in San Francisco. He is very easy to work with.
The last item I purchased was Tejus Lizard for knife sheath accent.
I have also bought elephant from him.
He will also send swatches, $3.00, and a self-addressed envelope. Also try Charles Hardtke, Inc. to compair price, (888) 353-0101
I hope this helps.
Joe

[dw]

Georgene,

Sheridan Leathers has 'roo in many different colours...it is what a good many folks use for inlays and sidewelt, beading, etc..

Charles Hardtke (915.590.0088) carries two types of 'roo...they have an Italian kangaroo that is aniline dyed and very beautiful. I have not used it much because I wet last and the wax finish tends to disappear with the water, but it might be very good for shoes if they were dry lasted. the "table" finish on this leather is just extraordinary.

Hardtke also carries another type...called "teck," I think. It has a more opaque finish and actually resembles another kind of kangaroo that Hardtke used to carry--Bilby--which I used a lot when they had it. I'm just finishing a pair of ostrich boots with a "teck' 'roo top. I like it. I'll post them when I'm finished.

All three types are fine for beading.

Also, both Hardtke and Weaver Leather carry some nice veg tan 'roo which is good for plaiting and even footwear perhaps. And Hartke carries a veg lining in 'roo. .

Kangaroos are wild animals. They fight. So a few scars on the skins are almost inevitable. Most of the really good 'roo I've seen and used was in the neighborhood of 2-3 ounce. The neck and the flank are, like any other hide/skin usually of marginal quality. But even that leather can be used for incidental applications. I once saw an Australian whipmaker take a veg tan skin and trim off just the corners of the hide and then begin to cut a thin strand around the periphery...cutting round and round until what was left was smaller than a half dollar. According to him, every inch was both strong enough and of good enough quality to be used.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[headelf]

Thanks guys, I'll make inquiries based on your advice.
Regards,
Georgene

[mmboots]

All,

I would like to get some input on using toe bug on heavy gain leather. I have finished some boots which I choose not to put on a toe bug because of the leather and then during the lasting process the leather has almost lost all the heavy gain look. I'm just finishing a pair(which I'll post on Monday) which this happen to. The boots really look good but, now I think that with no toe bug I missed on them.

Mike

[paul]

Mike,

My fist thought is it's in the eye of the beholder. I personally don't care much for toe bugs, but that's just me. If they really look good and your customer doesn't mind, let it go.

I try not to influence every choice in the design process with the customer. However I have expressed myself about toe bugs on heavy grained leather, such as bull hide. That grain is going to find it's own 'wrinkles'. It may look smoother after lasting, but within a few wearings, it'll go back to textured. And it will flex in all the right places if it's a good fit. So the function of the toe wrinkle is mute, IMO.

But don't listen to me. My first redo was a pair of black french calf, which I thought was going to look just so 'clean'. So I chose not to put the toe bug in the customer had requested, and instead left it without one. His Dad objected! I had to make another pair for him, but I did get a sample pair of boots in the process.

Paul

[mmboots]

Paul,

Thanks for the input. I will just let it go. Sometimes I might over think things. I just try to make each new pair of boots better than the last pair. And the toe bug is one of those area I struggle with all the time. I would like to have your input when I get the boots posted tomorrow. Thnaks.

Mike

[skb]

Pardon me if this is a bad place to post this, but does anyone understand the perforated markings on hides? I am looking to identify a veg tan hide that I have.

Gwen

[dw]

Gwen,

It's a fine place to post, but I'm not sure what you are referring to when you cite "the perforated markings on hides."

Maybe you could be more specific?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[skb]

Well, I have a hide and I am not sure what it is. I don't have a digital camera but I stuck it in my flatbed scanner and these are the images.

6301.jpg

6302.jpg

[artzend]

Gwen,

They look like brand marks, put on to identify the animal during it's lifetime and also the owners of said animal.

Branding is normally done on cattle.

Tim

[skb]

Hello again Tim,

I'd agree with what you are saying but these marks are not only on the grain side but the flesh side too. That can't be with branding can it?

I've also seen other hides that have numbers like these along with a picture such as a deer. which leads me to believe that they are some sort of mark used for identifying the leather in some way.

I should also mention that the pictures that I posted are of the same hide.

Gwen

[bjohnsonleather]

Gwen,
The black stenciled numbers on the flesh side are the size of the hide in square feet and fractions. I beleive most hides are sized by 5ths of a foot. The last number would be how many 5ths.
The perforated numbers on the front might be a preslaughter tattoo or a perforated marking sytem done by the hide processor. I have been away from the slaughter industry for a while, but trace-back identification is probably more of an issue than it used to be.

[artzend]

Thanks Bruce

[marcell]

The first one shows how big the hide is - thats why it is in the flesh side, the other one is burned to the animal alive. I guess they didn't count that someone who wants to use the leather. There are many types of "mistakes" like this. Actually a whole topic in the leather books.

Rest in peace cow No. ?587!

[skb]

Thank you,
You guys are the best!

That answers my first question, now can anyone tell me how to measure this piece to determine its square footage?

Gwen

[relferink]

Gwen,

The way I measure my leather when I need to take an inventory is to use painters tape on my cutting table or even on the floor and lay out square blocks, each one foot long and one foot wide. Depending on the type of skins you are measuring a 5 by 7 works well for me. When laying the leather out count how many squares are covered and make a judgment call on the partially covered ones.

Or if it's an uncut skin just look for the stamp on the back telling you how many square feet you have
Good luck counting

Rob

[bjohnsonleather]

Gwen,
Looks like this particular piece has the size stencil a bit incomplete. I would guess the first number is a "2", making it 29-3/5 square feet. Now most hides are computer measured. In the old days surface area in the packing plants was measured by a grid system. A clear plastic template was placed over the object, and the full squares counted. Any squares over half full were counted as one, and the less than half were ignored to kind of average it out. Hides were sold by the pound, piece, or square foot to the tanneries, depending on what they were.
Skirting is sold by the side mostly now. I can sort of rectangle the major part from the shoulder to the butt and then measure the length and depth. Once I have that, I eyeball the part outside the "rectangle" and estimate that. I subtract the flanky pockets and then get a usuable size estimate for figuring my square foot pricing on it for repair parts. Side leathers usually have a size on them and are sold by the foot. I haven't bought shoulders in quite a while so I don't know about them.

[sharon_raymond]

Greetings, I am interested in what the "studs" on the Ariat strathmore clog are made from - they look like the heads of very short shoe nails. Thanks and wishing all much happiness in the new year, Sharon

[headelf]

Sharon,
Those look like tiny pronged studs to me ( I looked up shoes on zappos.com) Looks like what you'd find at Standard Rivet. Google them, they're in New York area and historically have supplied all the studs and spots you see on rock star clothing.
Georgene