The Crispin Colloquy

Hey Chris,

Thanks Partner! Good to hear from you. Take care!

respected sirs, very nice site with some impressive work shown. i would ask if anyone reading this would know where i might find some gold color thread suitable for hand stitching a leather holster for a gold trimmed revolver. any help would be greatly appreciated. regards

This isn't a solution using strictly regulation shoe thread, but have you thought of using six strand embroidery floss, doubled or tripled as needed to get the right guage of thread? Draw this over a wax cake to strengthen and waterproof. It comes in thousands of colors, is available in many retail outlets and is 100 per cent cotton. Nifty to use as contrasting hand stitching on shoes after poking the holes with a thonging/multiple hole punch.

Gerald,

First of all, WELCOME!

Second, please accept our apologies for not getting to your question a little faster.

Welcome to you too Georqene! Yes, I've heard of people using the embroidery thread. I've never tried it, but you sure would have a selection of colors.

Over the years I've gradually switched from linen to dacron (polyester). We won't go into all the reasons, but you do have a variety of colors to choose from. Here's a list of some companies:

A.H. Rice
(800)765-7423
www.ahrice.com

American & Efrid Thread
(704)827-4311

Barbour Thread, Inc.
(828)862-4215

Synthetic Thread Co., Inc.
(800)836-0525
www.syntheticthread.com

Ludlow Textiles Co.
(800)332-3698
www.ludlowtextiles.com

Maine Thread Co.
(207)784-7770
www.mainethread.com

Hope this helps! Good Luck!

sirs, i thank you for the quick responses. i had thought of sewing as normal and then chaseing the holes with emboridery thread. i will let you know how it comes out. again my thanks. gerald

Al,

Following up on your Feb/Mar 2001 postings on linen thread. Another source of the Barbour’s Hand Shoe Thread – Pure Flax No.10 – 4 oz clear tubes is SFS Associates, 5450 Highland Park Dr, St. Louis MO 63110 314-531-1830. A box of 12 lb, i.e. 3 lbs, costs about $116 with shipping. Also, I found the same thread at www.elpasoshops.com or www.paisanoleather.com (code BHST4) for $9.50 per tube
You never followed up with a report from your elves on their reasons why they don’t like this thread. I suspect Tim Wilson finds it easily tangles and kinks when drawing it from the tube. Also it is a real pain trying to untwist the thread just-so to break the thread with a tug of the hands to create the frayed ends.

Back in 1983 when Mark Sipson (Old Sturbridge Village) showed me how to make an 18th C. shoe I got my thread from F.J. Fawcett in Boston. They sold linen thread for the weaving and lace making crafts. They were bought out by Unicorn Books and Crafts, 1338 Ross St, Petaluma CA 94954 1-800-289-9276. The Fawcett literature had some information on linen thread language. A Lea is the count, or size, of a linen yarn. One lea equals 300 yards per pound. To find the per pound yardage of a single yarn, multiply the lea by 300. Thus a 20 lea single ply yarn (20/1) has 20 x 300 = 6000 yards per pound.

They used to carry an 20/1 half-bleached Irish linen thread, but that is long gone. Then they had an unbleached 16/1 Swedish thread from Klippan-Berga, but that company was bought out by another Swedish firm and the thread was discontinued. In 2003 Unicorn carried a bleached 16/1 Irish thread (stock 30100020) with the Viking label for about $14.
Roy Najecki
Roy@Najecki.com

Another source of pine pitch and rosin hand-wax (coad) is Russ Bigelow, 211 Richmond Rd, Winchester NH 03470 603-239-4123. Russ makes it himself in a choice of winter or summer mix. The balls are about golf ball size for about $4 each. This is as of Summer 2003 when I last stopped by his house.

I too have had troubles with Holt's Hand Wax flaking. I bought a carton of it shortly after Holt's was bought out by C.S. Pierce and moved from Albany NY to Brockton Mass. Since then C.S. Pierce in turn has gone under. I'll have to try one of the fixes mentioned on this forum, and maybe get some use of my Holt's.

About 15 years ago I bought several pounds of Rausch’s pitch and rosin, but never got around to making the stuff myself. It’s just one of those things that I thought I should buy because I might never find it again. Kind of like that gallon of Sperm Whale oil I’ve got. About the same time I got some rosin from Woodworker’s Supply, which no longer carries the item, but apparently it is used in the woodworking trade so that’s a potential avenue to explore if Rausch should cease production.
Roy Najecki
Roy@Najecki.com

Roy,

Welcome aboard!

The "problem" with the Barbour's in the plastic jars is, it's "wet-spun"=very hard twist. It's hard to fray into a "taw", whether you back-twist and pop it, or drag it under your knife. It is very strong though. We're still able to get the soft-spun "hemp" in little balls out of the UK through HCCer Peter Schweiger

Al,

Thanks for the thread source info. Next time you're going to place an order could I piggyback on the order? Also, perhaps this thread is something Peter Oakley would want to stock for the HCC sales? When I spoke to him last spring he didn't have any thread at-all.

I've used the Barbour's plastic jar thread for classes I've given to Brigade members on how to make waxed ends, and stitch cartridge pouches using traditional techniques. As you said, the back-twist and pop isn't easy, and very frustrating when you're trying to show someone brand new to working with leather.

Cheers,
Roy

Roy,

I think Peter Schweiger will gladly sell a "tray" [20-24 balls I think] of the old style soft-spun Barbour's to anybody. Just e-mail him and ask at: peter@schweiger.freeserve.co.uk.

I don't think the HCC needs to get into importing it just yet, it's not that hard to buy

Good morning all,
Does anyone have a source for silk thread in B or C weight, preferrably C weight?

Thanks,
Carol

Carol,

Wooded Hamlet Designs may be able to help you. http://www.woodedhamlet.com/threads_pins_needles/sewing_thread.htm 717-597-1782

Size B is not on their website, but it is listed in their 2001 catalog. They may still have it.

Regards,
Roy

Al,

How many plies of Barbours No. 10 (plastic tube type) are the CW staff (Ken, Tim, etc...) using when they make their waxed ends for upper closing use? Three plies seems adequate, and five too heavy. It is my understanding not to use an even number of plies as they do not roll together into a round cord, but into a squarish cord.

Roy

Roy,

Tim, Val, and Andy (current staff) use a thinner linen yard for making closing threads. We get it from WEBs yarns up your way (New England). The wet-spun Barbour's in the plastic jars is too hard and stiff for closing thread, but if you had to, I'd say 3 strands of that would be okay.

Al,

Thanks for confirming the 3-plies. I stopped by WEBS two Saturdays ago and picked up some unbleached 20/1 and other thread for costume use.

I have recently purchased a New Old Stock box (36 2 ounce balls) of 1946 Acadia Irish linen/"hemp" #10 shoe thread; having received it, it seems quite good. It is slighly browned compared to the current UK Barbours but seems to remain very strong and free of any dry-rot weakness. I compared it to the current US Barbours (wet spun) and some current UK Barbours "linen single shoe" thread (dry spun?). It seems to be of at least comparable quality to the latter, and when dissected seems to have as many or more strands/fibers than either of the Barbours. To a novice, it seems to give a pretty good tail when broken (your mileage may vary).

The seller has told me he has something like 20 - 25 boxes remaining, which he seems to be selling one at a time; if you bid his opening bid, he will give you a second chance offer at your bid price if you aren't the winner. If you need linen thread, it's a great price. Works out to about a buck per ball, including shipping.

His auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=28172&item=8188057719&rd= 1&ssPageName=WDVW

I am not affiliated in any way with the seller.

Lance Pryor

(Message edited by lancepryor on April 28, 2005)

Lance,

Thanks for the tip! Makes me almost wish I still used linen yarn. That looks like great stuff. You won't find anything comparable soon. If I had a use for it I'd buy it all--all that he has left--regardless of the price.

I hope someone here on the forum gets it!

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

trying after it now DW it will look nice in my hand sewing.

I have a question about shoe thread nomenclature that I hope someone can answer.

I have several different types of linen shoe thread, including:

Coats Barbour (UK) Linen Single Shoe Thread -- no size specified, but I assume #10

Vintage Acadia #10 linen shoe thread -- made in N. Ireland

Vintage Barbour #15 linen shoe thread -- made in N. Ireland in the 50's

Vintage Barbour #3 linen shoe thread (the one in the cardboard box with the hole in the center of the lid) - made, I assume, in the USA

So, my question is this: what does the size mean? What I don't understand is that the UK #15 looks pretty similar to the US #3; both are thinner than the #10. Also, specifically how would the #15 compare, in terms of number of fibers, to the #10?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this mystery.

Can someone give me a source for pre-wound cotton bobbins they are for my 30-70 Adler.Thanks
Ed

if this comes twice sorry

Lance,

How has the Acadia Hemp Thread you bought via eBay worked out? I was about to bid on a carton of thread, but thought with a few months experience you might have second thoughts on your purchase.

As to the difference between #10 and #15 linen thread, I think I have the answer at home. It has to do with the lbs per thousand yards of thread. A more complete answer hopefully tomorrow.

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, I wonder if Rausch Naval Yards, from which some of bought rosin and pitch, is literally washed away.

Roy Najecki
Rhode Island

Roy:

I've only done a bit of sewing with the thread, but so far I like it. I sold on a carton to Ed Shirley, and he has indicated it has exceeded his expectations. At the opening bid price plus shipping totalling less than a dollar per ball, I think it's a great deal.

I look forward to the info on the #10 vs #15 thread.

BTW, I too am in RI, in Providence. Where are you located? Perhaps I could let you have a ball of the thread to test it out.

Thanks.

Lance

Lance,

I live in West Glocester (Rt 94) and work at Leviton Mfg in Hillsgrove (Warwick). My wife Debra works at Lifespan/RI Hospital (Providence).

I'm surprised that Al Saguto hasn't bought all the Acadia thread to supply the Colonial Williamsburg shoe and harness shops.

Cheers,
Roy

Lance,

I believe the #3, #10, and #15 refers to the Lea, or count or size of the linen yarn. The European standard is one lea = 300 yds/lb. Thus the #10 shoe thread is 3000 yds/lb and the #15 thread is 4500 yds/lb. Thus a higher yarn size number means a finer (smaller diameter) thread. I can't explain the #3 other than perhaps this is a USA sizing system.

As a test I weighed 100 ft of the No.10 wet spun shoe thread (the stuff in the 4 oz plastic tube, see my Jan 26th posting above) and this sample came to 5 grams. A 4 oz tube = 114 grams, thus 114/5 = 22.80 x 100 = 2280 ft or 760 yds per tube. Four tubes of this thread = 1 lb, thus 760 yds x 4 = 3040 yds. Close to the 3000 yds expected from the Lea size system.

I repeated this with the 2 oz rolls of dry spun Barbours shoe thread from Peter Schweiger. A roll is 58 grams, and 100 ft again weighed 5 grams, giving me 387 yds/roll or 3096 yds per pound. Again, pretty close to the 3000 yds/lb for 10 Lea thread.

So your #15 thread is finer and allows you to use more plies for a desired diameter of thread. In other words, I think you can use 5 plies of #15 thread, instead of 3 plies of #10 thread. The resulting waxed end should be about the same diameter, but because the #15 has more plies (and more hand wax) I would expect greater overall strength.

Regards,
Roy
401-736-1315

Hi,
Does anyone have any experience of SoMac linen threads http://www.somac.co.uk/. I got some from http://www.bowstock.co.uk/ but being a total newbie, having it in my hands tells me absolutely nothing.

Cheers

Gordon