Hi all..
a fellow Kiwi is looking for parts/needles for his machinery as I am also..the Junker and Ruh sole stitcher he has, has been modified somewhat .. I had read that needles were still available?
will post photos ..
thanks
Gordon [New Zealand]
(Message edited by gordond on August 03, 2008)
sewing machines
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gordond
Re: sewing machines
junker and ruh
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gordond
Re: sewing machines
some more photos of Jeff Murray's Junker and Ruh ..unusually deep [previous owner modified] ..but this machine is quite different from others we have seen/own..does anyone have or seen one like it?
(Message edited by gordond on August 04, 2008)
(Message edited by gordond on August 04, 2008)
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das
- Seanchaidh
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Re: sewing machines
Gordon,
Very interesting and neatly-done modifications for flat or harness-type work. They may have buggered it up for shoe sole stitching though. Does it still take the various needle plates for soles (crepe rubber, channeled, w/depth gauge, etc.)?
Gotz in Germany still sell needles for these in several sizes, as well as the correct sizes/twists of spooled linen thread (spools fit the the spindle, which incororates part of the upper thread tension). Pederson of DK were making repros of the machine up until the past 10 years, and those parts inter-change with the Junker & Ruh. Mine likes to run with Solari's liquid wax in the wax pot to lube the thread, but very messy, as it spatters everywhere.
Nice to see it still has the bobbin-winder crank and the leather feed return-spring cover.
As far as I know, Junker & Ruh only made these from circa WWI until the Allies destroyed the Junker Works in 194?--they had switched to making the Stuka [sp?] dive bombers.
Very interesting and neatly-done modifications for flat or harness-type work. They may have buggered it up for shoe sole stitching though. Does it still take the various needle plates for soles (crepe rubber, channeled, w/depth gauge, etc.)?
Gotz in Germany still sell needles for these in several sizes, as well as the correct sizes/twists of spooled linen thread (spools fit the the spindle, which incororates part of the upper thread tension). Pederson of DK were making repros of the machine up until the past 10 years, and those parts inter-change with the Junker & Ruh. Mine likes to run with Solari's liquid wax in the wax pot to lube the thread, but very messy, as it spatters everywhere.
Nice to see it still has the bobbin-winder crank and the leather feed return-spring cover.
As far as I know, Junker & Ruh only made these from circa WWI until the Allies destroyed the Junker Works in 194?--they had switched to making the Stuka [sp?] dive bombers.
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gordond
Re: sewing machines
Hi D.A.Saguto,
the flat plate does remove and a normal needle plate can be installed.. can't recall how this locked into position..I'll get Jeff to answer that one.
I have a Dania [looks similar to other Junker and Ruh],but made in Denmark.
Acquired a channeller [as shown in the Junker manual ..again another clone].
We are both use/d braided thread on these machines..
however; thanks for the lead on the correct twist thread supply and the needles from Gotz[Goetz]...are they easy to deal with??
regards
Gordon
the flat plate does remove and a normal needle plate can be installed.. can't recall how this locked into position..I'll get Jeff to answer that one.
I have a Dania [looks similar to other Junker and Ruh],but made in Denmark.
Acquired a channeller [as shown in the Junker manual ..again another clone].
We are both use/d braided thread on these machines..
however; thanks for the lead on the correct twist thread supply and the needles from Gotz[Goetz]...are they easy to deal with??
regards
Gordon
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johnabt
Re: sewing machines
Sirs;
If Goetz sells the needles, does anyone have the part number for it from Goetz?? New England Needle can not get the supplier to answer yet..
John Abt
If Goetz sells the needles, does anyone have the part number for it from Goetz?? New England Needle can not get the supplier to answer yet..
John Abt
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johnabt
Re: sewing machines
Sirs;
Do you have a supplier for these, or part numbers?? Thanks!
Gotz in Germany still sell needles for these in several sizes, as well as the correct sizes/twists of spooled linen thread (spools fit the the spindle, which incororates part of the upper thread tension).
John Abt
Do you have a supplier for these, or part numbers?? Thanks!
Gotz in Germany still sell needles for these in several sizes, as well as the correct sizes/twists of spooled linen thread (spools fit the the spindle, which incororates part of the upper thread tension).
John Abt
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gordond
Re: sewing machines
Hi all
the reply I have received from Gotz.......
Dear Mr. Gordon Disher,
thank you very much for visiting our web page.
Unfortunately we do not have any parts or needles for Junker or Pedersen machines anymore.
If you wish other articles or have any questions ref. our programme, pls be so kind and contact Mr. John Mallard
from the Texon company, phone 09/6361380, in Auckland.
If you have problems to get them, you can contact me anytime.
Kia ora
Mary Ann
i.A. Mary Ann Wanzek
GÖTZ Service GmbH
Zillenhardtstr. 2/2
DE-73037 Göppingen/Voralb
Germany
Telephone: ++49 (0)7161 61 02 505
Telefax : ++49 (0)7161 61 02 994
the reply I have received from Gotz.......
Dear Mr. Gordon Disher,
thank you very much for visiting our web page.
Unfortunately we do not have any parts or needles for Junker or Pedersen machines anymore.
If you wish other articles or have any questions ref. our programme, pls be so kind and contact Mr. John Mallard
from the Texon company, phone 09/6361380, in Auckland.
If you have problems to get them, you can contact me anytime.
Kia ora
Mary Ann
i.A. Mary Ann Wanzek
GÖTZ Service GmbH
Zillenhardtstr. 2/2
DE-73037 Göppingen/Voralb
Germany
Telephone: ++49 (0)7161 61 02 505
Telefax : ++49 (0)7161 61 02 994
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das
- Seanchaidh
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Re: sewing machines
Yikes! This sounds like bad news. Do any of our Euro-colleagues have any suggestions? Glad I bought 2 dozen Junker needles of all 3 sizes when I did. Some smaller suppliers might have old stocks of them, or the needle manufacturer [Grotz Beckhart?] might still? Let us know, now may be the time to buy that life-time supply.
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johnabt
Re: sewing machines
Sirs;
Junker & Ruh
There are 46 left at the manufacturer; the want to sell in large lots but the ones they have are 5 Euros apiece plus or minus. Groz-Beckert in Germany has them.
John Abt
Junker & Ruh
There are 46 left at the manufacturer; the want to sell in large lots but the ones they have are 5 Euros apiece plus or minus. Groz-Beckert in Germany has them.
John Abt
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johnabt
Re: sewing machines
Sirs;
Detlef Scheidt has a lin on the last needles; nice fellow, can be reached at FSB40_85@Yahoo.De and he will handle purchasing and reshipping. He takes PayPal.
John Abt
Detlef Scheidt has a lin on the last needles; nice fellow, can be reached at FSB40_85@Yahoo.De and he will handle purchasing and reshipping. He takes PayPal.
John Abt
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das
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Re: sewing machines
Okay....
Here's what I have on Junker needles: the Gotz (umlaut) catalogue, distributed by MacPherson Leather, Seattle, WA page 212--Gotz #797 0290-6 (size 6), and #797 0290-7 (size 7). The Groz Beckert wrapper label (10 pack) says: 10 1551 No.7 109/ HN 86/69.210.46 G 201; the size 6s says: 10 1551 No.6 067/ HN 86/69.195.46 G 201.
I bet if we look hard enough and smaller shoe-repair-suppliers in the UK or Europe, we're likely to find new old stocks of these still on the shelves and for less than 5 EUROS per needle.
BTW, Gotz has(had?) needles for the Frobana-Gritzner, hand-cranked sole stitching machines too, #797 0280-4 and #797 0280-5.
If anybody finds us a cache of Junker needles at a good price, PM me, I'll go in on a few 10-packs of each size just to have a "lifetime" supply, since it seems there are now obsolete.
Here's what I have on Junker needles: the Gotz (umlaut) catalogue, distributed by MacPherson Leather, Seattle, WA page 212--Gotz #797 0290-6 (size 6), and #797 0290-7 (size 7). The Groz Beckert wrapper label (10 pack) says: 10 1551 No.7 109/ HN 86/69.210.46 G 201; the size 6s says: 10 1551 No.6 067/ HN 86/69.195.46 G 201.
I bet if we look hard enough and smaller shoe-repair-suppliers in the UK or Europe, we're likely to find new old stocks of these still on the shelves and for less than 5 EUROS per needle.
BTW, Gotz has(had?) needles for the Frobana-Gritzner, hand-cranked sole stitching machines too, #797 0280-4 and #797 0280-5.
If anybody finds us a cache of Junker needles at a good price, PM me, I'll go in on a few 10-packs of each size just to have a "lifetime" supply, since it seems there are now obsolete.
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johnabt
Re: sewing machines
Sirs;
My associate Detlef Scheidt called the Groz-Beckert main office. They had an unopened cache of 96 needles, and plan no further production. They bought the stocks form the old company, and consider themselves the sole distributor. I have an order for some of these and I am told another member of the list is also making an order of these.
The U.S. subsidiary has none of these needles in their inventory. They referred me to Germany.
New England Needle confirmed none were forthcoming to the U.S., and was quoted an $18 per needle price if ordered in small lots, a bit more than Detlef was quoted. Detlef was buying in bulk and getting a much better price. I suggest if you are interested you contact Detlef and get into the bulk buy. His email is FSB40_85@Yahoo.De . He will not charge any fees for his services, and can document all his costs for repayment. I have been acquiring items through his efforts for years and can vouch for his honesty and integrity. He also facilitates German Ebay purchases and shipping for others if you are interested.
Detlef called Goetz and was told they have none of the Junker needles in stock and do not plan carrying them. He also uses another wholesaler who said essentially the same thing.
That is what I know as of now.
John Abt
My associate Detlef Scheidt called the Groz-Beckert main office. They had an unopened cache of 96 needles, and plan no further production. They bought the stocks form the old company, and consider themselves the sole distributor. I have an order for some of these and I am told another member of the list is also making an order of these.
The U.S. subsidiary has none of these needles in their inventory. They referred me to Germany.
New England Needle confirmed none were forthcoming to the U.S., and was quoted an $18 per needle price if ordered in small lots, a bit more than Detlef was quoted. Detlef was buying in bulk and getting a much better price. I suggest if you are interested you contact Detlef and get into the bulk buy. His email is FSB40_85@Yahoo.De . He will not charge any fees for his services, and can document all his costs for repayment. I have been acquiring items through his efforts for years and can vouch for his honesty and integrity. He also facilitates German Ebay purchases and shipping for others if you are interested.
Detlef called Goetz and was told they have none of the Junker needles in stock and do not plan carrying them. He also uses another wholesaler who said essentially the same thing.
That is what I know as of now.
John Abt
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johnabt
Re: sewing machines
Junker & Ruh Needle Update;
Groz-Beckert has searched and has the following in stock for this model;
60 #5 needles
9,000 #8 Needles
96 #7 needles, of which most are spoken for as of this date. The price varies with a discount, but my friend in Germany was able to get them for under 6 Euros apiece in bulk. None are planned for future production.
Goetz confirmed on the telephone none are in stock or ordered, and recommended calling Groz-Beckert.
John Abt
Groz-Beckert has searched and has the following in stock for this model;
60 #5 needles
9,000 #8 Needles
96 #7 needles, of which most are spoken for as of this date. The price varies with a discount, but my friend in Germany was able to get them for under 6 Euros apiece in bulk. None are planned for future production.
Goetz confirmed on the telephone none are in stock or ordered, and recommended calling Groz-Beckert.
John Abt
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michielvanlierop
Re: sewing machines
I got an ancient Singer treadle powered machine from my girlfriend's dad. It's a 29K-1 which to me seems to be more or less the same as the more common 29-4. I took it a part, cleaned and oiled the entire machine (I have very little experience with sewing machines and was surprised by both quality and brilliant simplicity of the machine). Now it's running smoothly but it's not stitching properly. I asked an expert and with one look he said there's far to much wear on the shuttle carrier driving mechanism (I can turn the shuttle carrier freely for about 45 - 90 degrees...). I don't want to be the one to bring this old machine to the junkyard (it's already given me so much pleasure just fixing and cleaning it) so I wanted to take the shuttle carrier driving mechanism a part. I got al the pinions out easily, except for the Shuttle Carrier Driving Pinion which seems to be connected to the shuttle carrier with just a single sprocket. Before I start hammering out the carrier (it's connected real tightly) I would like to know if that's the way to go and whether you think it's worth the effort anyway. And if anyone knows of a good (preferably European) place to get Singer 29K-1 parts at a fair price it would be of great help.
Thanks!
Michiel
Thanks!
Michiel
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das
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Re: sewing machines
Michiel,
Before you bring out your hammer: the shuttle-carrier driving pinion has a set screw holding it to the shuttle-carrier post that passes down through the arm. This is accessed from underneath the machine. Rotate the shuttle carrier until the non-toothed portion of the driving pinion is aligned with a small "u" shaped cut-out in the cast iron arm (I think it's to the rear of the arm on the old ones). Use a good large jeweler's screwdriver to remove the set screw, working through the cut-out in the arm, then gently tap up on the shuttle carrier from below with a pin-punch. It should pop right out. If the set screw is frozen or rusted, try kerosene on it over night. If it's still frozen, carefully heat the driving pinion with a propane gas torch just until you see oil smoke, then while still hot try to back the screw out.
The hole in the cast iron arm of the machine the shuttle carrier oscillates in may be worn too. The best fix is to drill it out and install a steel bushing to fit your new shuttle carrier and driving pinion--if you have a machinist nearby who can do this. Otherwise I've had luck using very thin "shim brass" sheet, cutting (with scissors) various shapes, washers, etc., myself and installing them to take up the slop in these old patching machines. The shim brass wears fast, and grinds away, but in moderate use you should get a year out of a brass shim.
Potentially there's wear in the rack tracks in the cast iron arm too, so when you install new racks (one long, one short), the new driving pinion and the new following pinion, check this carefully. There must be a certain amount of "gear lash" (looseness) in how the racks and pinions mesh, so the shuttle carrier will always have some deflection if you wiggle it by hand, but it shouldn't be more than maybe 1/16" either direction. If once reassembled with all new parts, the shuttle carrier is still too wiggly to and fro, you can try ever so gently and carefully, bending the racks at the toothed portion into just a tiny bit of an arch so they bear tighter on the pinions--be very careful at this of they will bind when you reassemble and run the machine, and thy will break if you try to bend them back straighter. Another cheater solution for looseness in the racks/pinions is to lubricate them with heavy black automotive wheel-bearing grease instead of oil. This thicker lube will pack the teeth and keep the shuttle carrier from slapping too far due to gear lash", but it's messy.
These are fun and simple old machines to work on, and if you can't ever get it to stitch reliably again, it will make a nice decor item in your living room, or use it to put plants on. I have an old one in the garden with pumpkin vines growing on it.
Parts: I only know of Pilgrim Shoe Machines, in Quincy, Massachusetts, but they will probably ship world-wide, or they may know of a parts supplier in your region.
Before you bring out your hammer: the shuttle-carrier driving pinion has a set screw holding it to the shuttle-carrier post that passes down through the arm. This is accessed from underneath the machine. Rotate the shuttle carrier until the non-toothed portion of the driving pinion is aligned with a small "u" shaped cut-out in the cast iron arm (I think it's to the rear of the arm on the old ones). Use a good large jeweler's screwdriver to remove the set screw, working through the cut-out in the arm, then gently tap up on the shuttle carrier from below with a pin-punch. It should pop right out. If the set screw is frozen or rusted, try kerosene on it over night. If it's still frozen, carefully heat the driving pinion with a propane gas torch just until you see oil smoke, then while still hot try to back the screw out.
The hole in the cast iron arm of the machine the shuttle carrier oscillates in may be worn too. The best fix is to drill it out and install a steel bushing to fit your new shuttle carrier and driving pinion--if you have a machinist nearby who can do this. Otherwise I've had luck using very thin "shim brass" sheet, cutting (with scissors) various shapes, washers, etc., myself and installing them to take up the slop in these old patching machines. The shim brass wears fast, and grinds away, but in moderate use you should get a year out of a brass shim.
Potentially there's wear in the rack tracks in the cast iron arm too, so when you install new racks (one long, one short), the new driving pinion and the new following pinion, check this carefully. There must be a certain amount of "gear lash" (looseness) in how the racks and pinions mesh, so the shuttle carrier will always have some deflection if you wiggle it by hand, but it shouldn't be more than maybe 1/16" either direction. If once reassembled with all new parts, the shuttle carrier is still too wiggly to and fro, you can try ever so gently and carefully, bending the racks at the toothed portion into just a tiny bit of an arch so they bear tighter on the pinions--be very careful at this of they will bind when you reassemble and run the machine, and thy will break if you try to bend them back straighter. Another cheater solution for looseness in the racks/pinions is to lubricate them with heavy black automotive wheel-bearing grease instead of oil. This thicker lube will pack the teeth and keep the shuttle carrier from slapping too far due to gear lash", but it's messy.
These are fun and simple old machines to work on, and if you can't ever get it to stitch reliably again, it will make a nice decor item in your living room, or use it to put plants on. I have an old one in the garden with pumpkin vines growing on it.
Parts: I only know of Pilgrim Shoe Machines, in Quincy, Massachusetts, but they will probably ship world-wide, or they may know of a parts supplier in your region.
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jask
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- Full Name: jask
Re: sewing machines
here is a link to a 29U manual. Have a look at the shuttle timing section.
http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/29U171A_172A_173A.pdf
http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/29U171A_172A_173A.pdf
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tjburr
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- Full Name: Terry Burress
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Re: sewing machines
John,
I wanted to thank you very much for putting us in contact with Detlef to obtain needles for the Junker and Ruh.
He was very helpful and his responses to emails were extremely quick. There were still size 5, 7 and 8 needles available and they were shipped to me this week.
He was nice enough to put the invoice in my name (helps with the IRS) and was very helpful in setting up the purchase and accepting payment by paypal.
Detlef; I know I have thanked you by email, but if you are reading this, thanks again.
Terry
I wanted to thank you very much for putting us in contact with Detlef to obtain needles for the Junker and Ruh.
He was very helpful and his responses to emails were extremely quick. There were still size 5, 7 and 8 needles available and they were shipped to me this week.
He was nice enough to put the invoice in my name (helps with the IRS) and was very helpful in setting up the purchase and accepting payment by paypal.
Detlef; I know I have thanked you by email, but if you are reading this, thanks again.
Terry
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gordond
Re: sewing machines
Junker and Ruh needles
My thanks also to John Abt and Detlef for organising this.
I have had 2 quotes since and they are all more expensive
[even for the very few "old" stock needles .eg/ @ 7 Euro each or easily more]
thanks also to D.A.Saguto for the serial /stock number..wouldn't have got anywhere without this.
Singer 97 needles
I have had a few "off the forum" replies regarding these 97X3 [round point] and 97x4 needles for the Singer Class 97 machine.
Groz was holding the following stock:
sku :703762 97x3 size 250 [27] Available 3,800 needles
sku: 702412 97x3 size 280 [28] Available 8,100 needles
sku: 703772 97x3 size 300 [29] Available 2,100 needles
no 97x4 left [note: Maico has none]
Price: 109 Euro/100 [Germany].
There are few 97X3 held in the US [size 28,29,30] that I am aware of [I think they are cheaper ~ usd$100- $120/100 pcs].
I would like to split 100 unit packs with anyone who is interested.
I have have seen 97x needles for sale ;but defined as 2-3/4" long.
[this is incorrect as they are 3" inch long]
One could use these in the machine [or a 794 system?],but being shorter obviously means that only a lower thickness can be sewed.
A Schmetz 1000H is apparently being used [could be longer then the 97x?],however it is a scarfed roundpoint needle ,stock of size 29,30 showing.
the 2-3/4" are likely to be for a Class 7 machine .
My thanks also to John Abt and Detlef for organising this.
I have had 2 quotes since and they are all more expensive
[even for the very few "old" stock needles .eg/ @ 7 Euro each or easily more]
thanks also to D.A.Saguto for the serial /stock number..wouldn't have got anywhere without this.
Singer 97 needles
I have had a few "off the forum" replies regarding these 97X3 [round point] and 97x4 needles for the Singer Class 97 machine.
Groz was holding the following stock:
sku :703762 97x3 size 250 [27] Available 3,800 needles
sku: 702412 97x3 size 280 [28] Available 8,100 needles
sku: 703772 97x3 size 300 [29] Available 2,100 needles
no 97x4 left [note: Maico has none]
Price: 109 Euro/100 [Germany].
There are few 97X3 held in the US [size 28,29,30] that I am aware of [I think they are cheaper ~ usd$100- $120/100 pcs].
I would like to split 100 unit packs with anyone who is interested.
I have have seen 97x needles for sale ;but defined as 2-3/4" long.
[this is incorrect as they are 3" inch long]
One could use these in the machine [or a 794 system?],but being shorter obviously means that only a lower thickness can be sewed.
A Schmetz 1000H is apparently being used [could be longer then the 97x?],however it is a scarfed roundpoint needle ,stock of size 29,30 showing.
the 2-3/4" are likely to be for a Class 7 machine .
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das
- Seanchaidh
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Re: sewing machines
Gordon,
So, do I get a few dozen Junker needles as "commission" for hooking you up there? (just kidding)
So, do I get a few dozen Junker needles as "commission" for hooking you up there? (just kidding)
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mack
- 2
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- Full Name: Jim McCormack
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Re: sewing machines
Hi All,
Came across these during a clearout.Dont know if the needles and the packet go together as they were all loose in a bag.Needles are not in perfect condition, some surface rust on a couple but I think they are useable. Also a handle for winding bobbins or spools ? that looks very like the one in the foreground of Gordon Disher's picture of Junkers machine.
If they are of any use to anyone you are welcome to them no charge .
Regards Mack.
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mack
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Re: sewing machines
Sorry ,got it wrong on the picture size somehow.
Delete it all if it's a problem.
apologies Mack
Delete it all if it's a problem.
apologies Mack
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jesselee
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mack
- 2
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Re: sewing machines
Jesse,
Sorry you have been beaten to it,seems these needles are quite popular.Glad to know they will be of use to somebody.Thanks to all who showed an interest.
Regards Mack.
Sorry you have been beaten to it,seems these needles are quite popular.Glad to know they will be of use to somebody.Thanks to all who showed an interest.
Regards Mack.
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jesselee
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