The Crispin Colloquy

Nick

It looks like shankboard glued to the insole. Probably for strength and/or stiffness. The lasts look fairly low heeled so I am not sure why it was done.

Tim

I recently got a sample of insole from Warkov Safeer in which the grain surface feels really soft, like you could use that for the finished product. Some questions come up :

1 - is it normal to use naked insole leather to finish the inside of the shoe, rather than apply a sock liner?

2 - how do you get around having a bunch of nail holes in the insole from the lasting/molding process? I might try using cheese cloth instead of nails to mold the insole.

3 - do you NEED to apply an oil or other type of finishing substance to the insole. If it isn't a need, then what are some common substances used to condition or adjust the aesthetic look, i.e., give it a bit of shine?

Nick,

It is actually preferable to use the naked insole leather for maximum moisture absorbing capability.

If you use a sock liner, the glue will prevent such good moisture handling. However, for appearance, you may want to add one.

You don't need to add oil to the insole but you can add tallow. This will actually make it somewhat shiny. The theory is that this will make the insole last longer. This is perhaps more relevant in heavily used footwear like work boots.

I use Vet-Wrap to mold the insole to the bottom of the last. This leaves no nail hols. There are 3 nail holes to hole the insole on, however.

You still have to use nails to last the shoe anyway right, so I dont know how you'd get around holes.

Well. one or two visible nail hole is better than 30 but, if you want a totally finished look, you'll need the sock liner.

can you last the upper without puncturing the lasting nails/tacks all the way through the insole?

I don't think so.

Nick

I always used a sole press to fit the insole to the last when it was wet, leave it then and it dries to shape ok.

Tacks leave a smaller hole, and cement lasting is the only way to do it without any holes except at the seat and toe, which require the pleating.

You would probably still need a seat sock, but that is all.

DW,

If you get the last into the forepart of the shoe and insert the shoe horn (preferably plastic) into the back of the shoe, then as you pull up on the toe of the last, pull down on the shoe horn and it will slip on easily. It should anyway.

Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com

Tim,

Why plastic?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW

Because it is flexible. I tried it with a metal shoehorn that I had that was about the same size as a plastic one and apart from it bending and staying bent, it was too rigid as it came to pull it from the shoe.

Tim

I am making a shoe for a customer who wants a storm welted sole. Since I am much better at rolling the edges of the thinner innersole than I am at channeling, I am attempting a marriage of the two. I also like the idea of a thinner overall sole - the idea being comfort and flexibility.

Has anyone experimented thus? If so, how did it work?

What kind of welting is this? Can anyone help?
If have some pictures to show the construction will be the best, thanks.

(Message edited by fishball on October 14, 2010)

(Message edited by fishball on October 14, 2010)

Sorry, my mistake. Here the picture:

I think it is the Norwegian style welting,Marcel posted picture/s of it last year sometimes and i if memory is correct,It is under "Bottoming techniques", Good luck.

Nasser

Alexander,

Who is the maker of the shoe above? Thanks.

Alexander,
I don't know what they call this style in English becasue there is no welt involved in the making but if it is then it's called as Nasser said Norwegian welted. Here in Sweden we call it pitch seamed with or without welt. The reason for that is thes method where mostly used for heave duty boots like army and farmers boots and the tread needed to be covered with a lot of pitch.

Here is a two photos where you can see some of the making. It is made of reversed waxed calf and JP Myhre, Oslo treated the skin with wax for me.

Nasser,

Stefano Bemer is the shoemaker.

Alexander's shoe looks like one of Limmer's single-seam shoes. They make/made the shoe with the closing seam on the inside near the heel. The Limmers use a Norwegian welt in their hiking boots, so it may well be one of theirs.

I am thinking this was not the easiest method for molding the insole - the 3oz tacks are very hard to get out.

I was wondering if it's a bit easier to use a larger tack, like 8oz, hammer it in half way, then hammer the tack over on its side?

Nick:

I do the latter. Furthermore, I find bending the nails over the outside helps to shape the edge of the insole to the feather line of the last.

Lance

Nick

It is easier to use a 1.25mm x 25mm bullet head nail. They will bend easily once they have gripped into the last and are easily removed. They only leave a small hole and don't normally damage the last.

Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com

Those black spots are areas where the leather's been damaged. Can you use brass tacks, or blued brads instead? I've had good luck with an Ace-type bandage, no nails at all. It increases the existing problem of drying the insole before mold appears, though, so helping the drying along with a fan is usually needed.

With the right tool, the nails are not hard to get out. However... I don't like using nails at all. It's a lot of unnecessary holes in your insole and last.

I'm a big fan of "Vet-Wrap". This stuff, or various knock off brands are readily available at any farm and feed store. Heck, they use it at my doctors office too!

My friend used bicycle inner tyre to do it

I form my insoles using an old sole press. The result is very good and it is clean, fast, and no nails are needed. I don't know if these are available in the US but if you found one buy it.
Janne