The Crispin Colloquy

DW,

It almost seems to me that the context for that comment from Golding, would be relavant to factory lasting machines, and not hand work, which might require more lasting margin. Whereas factory made would be concerned with the amount of scrap, therefore reduce the margins.
What do you think?

PK

Paul,

Yes, you are absolutely correct. The context was, not necessarily factory, but how to cut patterns in quantity...for economy as well as funtionality.

The thing I was trying to focus attention on, was the use of the word "mulling." Golding goes back to the turn of the 20th century...so that's at least 100 years. And for a word and a usage to become so commonplace that it would appear in an authorative text such as Golding, I would guess that the word must have been in use for some time prior to the publication of Boots and Shoes...maybe a further 100 years.

Either way--in factory work or "bespoke" work--"mulling" would be an appropriate word for that process of wetting the leather and setting it aside in a humidity controlled environment to let the moisture even out.

Saddlemakers call it "casing". I've heard "tempering." But "mulling" it over, I think it's all probably the same thing.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW,

I too came across the use of the word mulling to describe the wetting of leather and leaving it in a bag overnight in the old texts.

Tim

All

I may have asked this question already but I guess when your learning something new you tend to need to be told a few times before you remember.

I am making another sandal and I am using some upholstery leather that I am concerned will have too much stretch in the future. can I line it with something that will reduce the stretching? my tailoring instincts are yelling interfacing but I know this is a whole different environment than sewing garments.

Wende

Wende,

You are probably right about the stretching. You can use interfacing but it is not really all that strong is it? You can avoid some stretch by using a heavy leather as lining, or you can put some sort of tape under the edge. Synthetic 3mm/1/8" tape is easily available and should work. Using a 10mm/7/16" backseam tape would spread the load a bit more.

Tim

Wende,

Since you were asking about very very narrow straps recently, you'll probably reject this idea. However...

What you could do is cut your leather twice the width you're after, then fold it over your interfacing tape, which would want to be an eighth inch narrower than your finished strap. Fold it into the center and preferably stitch it along each side, or just glue it real well. Roll it or hammer lightly to get a good seal.

If you have a good relationship with a skive knife, you might get a little cleaner fold by doing a full skive along both sides of your strip.
Another tip might be to stretch the upholstery leather as you glue it to your interfacing. Obviously this will reduce how much it will stretch later.

Practice first.
Good luck,

PK

Tape is a good idea. Ideal makes tape in all widths with an adhesive on one side.

But don't rule out "toggling" the leather either--wetting it...thoroughly, tacking it to a piece of plywood and stretching it as far as it will go before tacking it on the other end...or on the perimeter depending on what you are trying to achieve...and let it dry completely to set it. Let it "rest" a couple of days off the board (it will draw up some), then cut.

I often toggle the back lining for my full wellingtons simply because the front linings are gonna be stretched while blocking, so not only would the back (untoggled) have a different stretch factor but the surface texture would be different as well. It balances things out front to rear.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by dw on June 28, 2007)

I thought If I had a picture of what I am trying to acheive it would help. So I found a picture in a catalog similar to what I am making so that I can help you help me.

The upholstery leather isn't as thick as I want it so my first thought was to double it like the last sandal I made. gluing two layers together. But does it need more stabilizing than that for an upholstery leather?

Can I fuse a woven interfacing between the two glued layers?

Also DW,

can you explain what wetting the leather does I don't know anything about it. maybe on the kindergarden level explaination.

thank you kindly,
wende

Wende,

Because you are using a wide area for the sandal vamp you can do the same as you did for the other one, as the load is spread fairly thin all over. With the narrower straps you may need some tape but your interfacing with a heavy lining should be fine. It depends on the lining. The glue bonding the two layers also helps to stop stretching here. Images make specific explanations a bit easier as there are so many ways to skin cats...

Tim

Wende

Upholstry leather is ok for footwear. Just make sure to soak it and stretch on a board first. As it is bought there is a lot of stretch. But it's pretty yough. I have used Rolls Royse leather for boots years ago and they are still going strong.
JesseLee

Tim,

Is my interfacing idea the best or is there a even better way? And where do I find tape?

Can someone give me dirrections on wetting leather?

Wende

Wende,

What are you going to do when they come to take your internet away?

Ok there are a few answers here. First, if you use a heavy leather, or a stiffer one for a lining, for this sort of sandal you could possibly get away without an interface, rely on the lining leather for the anti stretch thing. You only need a strip of tape (you could possibly use a strip of fabric about 10mm/7/16&#34 laid under the edge where your foot is inserted into the shoe, between the upper and lining. You probably need some tape between the layers on the narrower side straps, but not the front edge of the upper.

I don't think you need interfacing for this one unless you are using a very light lining. I used it on fabric and pigskin suede which has no strength, but not on anything else.

If you have to wet leather which doesn't take water easily because of oils and waxes, I always put a little (very little) dishwashing detergent in the water as a wetting agent. I think I saw someone in an earlier posting talking about something like that.

You may be able to get tape to use as topline tape from a newsagent or gift wrapping shop. The nylon tape that people use to wrap up gifts is fine and you may get a wider one than the 3mm/1/8" that I was using as topline tape. It just has to have no stretch and you can cut it, dip it in glue and hang it off a bench to dry while you glue the upper it is going to fit to, and then you place it close to the edge of the upper and then press that onto the lining. Press down all over to push out any air and stitch the edge. That should do it.

Tim

Tim,

I don't know why they haven't disconnected me yet, I cancelled it almost a month ago. I am kinda happy that I still have it though. even if it's only for a little while longer.

can I use seam binding or a light weight twill tape?

can anyone explain how this sole is made?

SKB,

What do you want to know. It is a leather sole with what looks like a leather (thin) insole glued directly to it.

Tim

How do you make it?

SKB

You would need to make a pattern of the insole and make your upper and attach it, then using the same pattern, cut the soling leather a bit bigger (about 5mm/3/16" - 10mm/7/16" so you can grind it back to the insole shape and it gives you a bit of leeway when you place the insole on the sole.

With a heel that high you probably need a shank in between the two layers, but if you are using a heel under 25mm/1" you probably don't need one.

Tim

Is the insole, the soling, and the heel made out of veg tan?

SKB,

The insole is usually some sort of veg tan but is different from the soling which is much more solid because it must resist wear. It doesn't matter what veg tan material you use for the insole really, I would have used a bridle leather for that because it can be bought already dyed. That gives a better look than hand dying but there is nothing wrong with it. If you use a plain undyed insole it will shine like glass after wearing for a while and looks really good.

The heel can be made using lifts from a grindery merchant or bits of soling, but will be heavy. You may be able to find an existing heel at a grindery merchant or buy an old pair of sandals at a thrift shop, and either pull them off yourself, or get a repairer to do it for you. If you do it yourself you need to hammer a screw driver in from the front of the heel and lever it off. Sandals like this are normally wider than a closed shoe but not always so check the size.

If using an existing heel you will have to make the back of the insole and sole the same size and shape.

Tim

Tim,

What sort of veg tan do you think would be a good choice for this type of soling?

Gwen

Gwen,

The soling leather is sold as soling leather, it is hammered and rolled in the tanning process and has oils added at that time. It is hard and generally reasonably thick, but that depends on where you get it. It is usually cow hide I think. Which country are you from and maybe someone else can help with your choices. Remember that soling leather is usually sold by weight and the pieces are quite large. There is no reason that you have to use leather and can always use a synthetic for the sole. Something like a resin rubber is cheap and light and you can get it in a tan colour. I am assuming this is your first venture into this, but if not please tell me.

Tim

Is there a guideline for the proper possitioning of the sole when glueing it to the upper and insole?

I am working on a sandal, similar to the styles on Sharon Raymonds web site using a similar vibram sole. Not knowing the correct positioning I felt this was the best place to inquire.

I havn't any pictures to post yet but if necessary I will look into posting some.


Gwen

Gwen,

After applying two coats of glue to the separate parts you should really reactivate the layer on the sole once it has dried completely. Do this by heating it. When it is warm again, start from the toe and place the toe of the sandal in position on the toe of the sole. Keep the rest of the sole and upper apart and flip the whole lot over, and then lower the sole onto the upper while looking down between them to make sure that they line up all the way to the heel. Then press together or hammer.

Tim

Tim,

the smallest sole I could get in this style was a mens size 8. the sandal is a womens size 9.

I am going to need to cut this sole down, and I am assumeing the best time to do this is after I attach them. right?

in light of all that is there a specific point on the sandal that the heel of the sole should begin?

Gwen

Gwen,

You can probably place the heel around 1/4 of the last length measured from the seat of the last. This may vary a bit. With a sandal you need to cut your insole back about 5mm if using a shoe last, to avoid having the toe curl up. Sandals are shorter than shoes as you don't need to worry about toes hitting the end.

You can generally lay your sandal insole onto the larger sole unit and draw round it, you can then trim back to that line if you like, when you fit your upper to the sole you have a definite mark then but by all means trim it later. It doesn't matter.

Tim