The Crispin Colloquy

Thanks for the welcome and the advice on wax. Cooked up a batch of wax using just powdered rosin and beeswax. Melt the rosin first. I probably over heated it. Darker than it should be. (Caution: Do not do this in the house for better domestic relations.) Best I have had so far. Tacky but not sticky, if that makes any sense. Wax may be a little hard but it does not seem to flake. May soften it with a little Corona...No, not the drinking kind...a lanolin based veterinary salve available at most feed stores and good for cuts, scrapes and dry skin in animals and people. It also contains a disinfectant

Ed,

For inseaming, I'm gonna use the Teklon. It's classified as a 11 cord on their website. For handsewing the outsole, I plan on trying the poly #346 stitcher thread. That's what I have in my Union Lock stitcher. I believe the #346 is equivalent to a linen #6 cord. The #346 will do nicely for the sideseam too.

Since D.W.'s excellent demonstration on making a taper on the Teklon, I've had no problem with tapering any of the poly stitcher threads. I played with some stitching yesterday, and with my new handwax, I can pull a tight stitch with the poly.

Keep us informed on your findings.

Ed,
This guy had a bunch of old awls for sale at Wichita Falls. He had several square awls in the box. I bought one just because I'd never seen one. I'll send it to you if you want. If you want more you might call him and see if he still has any.

Keith Pommer
605-372-4523

Lisa

Lisa yes I would appreciate that awl blade and I will contact Keith.Thank you
Ed

Ed,

Had time to fool around with some stitching today. Here's some Bulldog #6 poly shoe thread stitched 7 spi with the new handwax and nylon bristles. I'm excited! Those stitches are tight!

Erick,

Inventory reduction? How about linen and metal needles?



This looks promising to me.

Jake
That looks real sharp to me too I will get some of that #6 poly thread from our finder,right now I have been using #6 linen.That's a real...... nice set of stitches.
Ed

Ed,

I appreciate the kind words.

I've always had a problem with the synthetic threads not being able to tighten my stitches. With this new handwax, I can sink'em down there. They really pull tight! It's been one reason why I've stuck with linen so many years (been doing saddle work for 22 years). You could pull your stitches so much tighter with linen, even with beeswax.

And even if a person is into production, he can machine sew, and then hand close the loose ends.

I mentioned the color factor the other day. Don't know if any of you have dyed your linen to match certain leather items, but I have. It can be done, but it's time-consuming, messy, and a pain. With the synthetics, there's many colors to choose from, and no time for preparation (other than creating your tapers).

Call me a kid, but I'm excited about this new handwax!

I've been at a job for a couple of days, so I haven't been able to respond.

Jake,
It's not so much that I want to cut inventory, I'm just begining to learn some of these techniques, and I don't know what's going to fall apart on me. Until now I've only used the beeswaxed nylon I think I bought from Tandy - I always thought they didn't pull tight enough, and I understand why now. I've mostly done stitchdown construction, now I'm trying to learn a whole different aproach to the shoes I make. It just never occured to me, to use diferent size cords - there is so much discussion about threads and size, it seamed like something being taken into consideration. I don't have a curved needle machine - mostly because I don't have a permanent space right now. It was bad enough moving the Sutton 296a that I never used.
So, Heavy thread on the inseam , less heavy thread on the outsole?

Needles - I just bought some 40lb. line. Before I was making needles from wire - less than Ideal, but I could buy a spool of wire from any hardware store and twist 'em up.

As long as there is still talk about the hand-wax - I bought one of those "Fry-Daddy Jr." deep fryers - any opinion? It seems like it would get the mixture to a boil, and I can just run an extension cord outside.

Thanks
Erick

Erick,

So, Heavy thread on the inseam , less heavy thread on the outsole?

Correct! Like I said, I would use unwaxed Teklon 11 cord for my inseaming, and 6 cord for my outsole work. The stuff you got from Tandy was probably nylon tape. Stretches like crazy!

COOL wire needles! Good job making them! I don't see anything wrong with them, if you like using them.

As for the "Fry-Daddy Jr.", can you control the temp? If not, a "hot plate" and extension cord would have worked. If it's got a temp control, I don't see why it wouldn't work. It's teflon coated too! Let us know how it goes.

I've never seen galvanized wire. Your bristles look great! How do they hold up? What gauge wire do you buy? Here's an alternative for the musically inclined... .010 stainless guitar string.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

DW

I'll come out of my usual lurkdom mode to mention that I have been using broken top (high) E and B guitar strings to make the twisted wire needles. At one time Southern Leather in St Louis were selling the wire needles in both plain and twisted styles. I don't know if they still carry them. When I had used up my last one and needed some in a hurry, I remembered that I had some broken strings in my guitar case and experimented around. From that time, I haven't had to order any more commercial ones since I have a number of musician friends

Stephen Ratterman

Stephen,

Hey, good to see you come out of the shadows (is it true that *only* the Shadow knows? and what does he know? )

What guage are E and B strings? I played the clarinet off and on twenty some years ago but I've got no talent to speak of and it was always hard, hard work for me. I love swing era jazz and when I got to the noodling of Nola, I hit my limits.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is wondering whether the E and B are larger in diameter than the .010?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

DW

High E and B guitar strings gauge depends on a couple of factors most of which center around the maker of the strings and whether they are for acustic or electric guitars. That said, the general span of high E string gauges run from .008 to .014. B strings gauges run from .010 to .018. A complete guide for all stringed musical instruments is the Ernie Ball String Gauge Guide ( Box 2117, Newport Beach, CA 92663) Most guitar strings have the gauge imprinted on the pkg as well.

When I acquire a broken string, I sorta get a "feel" for the string and decide if I can do something with it.

I, too, really like Big Band Swing and Traditional Jazz. I never could acquire the talent for wind instruments and envy those that can play that kind of music.

I do lurk and read the postings. Sometimes it is better, at least for me, to sit quiet and learn at the proverbial knee of those that are considered Masters in the Art and Mysterie. To read the debates and opinions of the aspects of footwear making, to soak up what I can, research what I am confused about, and if the topic is well above my learning and experience(which it often is)to remember and hope for the time that it will become pertinent. Sorta like the traditional Greek or Medieval college approach. At this point in my advocation (I still have a 'day job' for now) I am still in a learning mode. (does one ever leave it) My orientation is demonstrating traditional early 19th C shoemaking techniques at museums and historic sites thruout the summer months on selected weekends. Have awl, will travel. It does give me a neat thrill to read that Al or Marc or Tom et al have come up with (validated) the same traditional solutions to problems that I have, not to say that I am even close to being in the same league they are. It does verifiy to me that I am in the right thinking area.

Stephen Ratterman

the wire is cheap, 28 gauge. Like I said in an earlier response, it doesn't take much for the ends to start getting caught on bits - Though keep in mind that when I did do a welted construction, I was mimiking factory welts using a twill tape "rib" - it's just asking for the wire to catch the threads. the needles are disposable, they wear out after maybe two shoes, but you would spend little over a dollar for the spool of wire - I've never twisted guitar string - I imagine it's much better - in the second picture you can see how it holds what ever shape it gets bent in, I imagine you want something that is light weight and springs back to straight.

Rusty,
Welcome. I am glad that you have chosen to join the CC. I use Maine thread products and have been well pleased with them.

Here's some follow-ups I promised:

All these were hand stitched with #6 linen @ 7 spi.

Jake,

Your hand stitched outsoles look really good. Heck, if I could do it that good I might have to sell my old nemesis--my Landis "F" --actually, she's a sweetie-pie and has put up with me and given me good results for a long, long time.

Now all's you got to do is get it up to 16 SPI and you'll be cooking...least-wise that's what some of the old books say was standard for high quality work, I've got my "F" set for 10 SPI and it looks pretty small to my eyes...I can't imagine 16 to the inch much less imagine doing it by hand!

Good work!


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

Dee-Dubb,

Well....Thank Ya Ol'Buddy! I've had some good guidance from you and Al.

Using the 3" sewing awl and 6 cord, it's about as close as you can do, in my humble opinion. To place any closer, you would have to grab the square sewing awl, which I have used. And I plan to experiment more with it on some of my boots (hopefully this summer). Nobody around here wants to pay me the bigs bucks for fancy boots, so I'm gonna make me some "eye-catchers" one of these days.

Don't believe I'll ever get to 16 spi, but 10 would really be nice.

I must say, all this experimentation and work has been brought forth due to my inability to use a curve needle stitcher. I hate to admit it, but it seems like I have a mental handicap with the beast. If there's something I hate, is to have a pretty boot, and mess up on the stitching. My success with the curve needle has been roughly 50%. That's not acceptable in my opinion.

Having said that, I do like hand sewing. I know, I know, I'm weird! But I tell ya, it's becoming a selling point. When customers see it, they like it! HAND MADE so to speak! And it is a skill I want to master. I used to hand sew ALL my saddles.

You never know though....16 spi is do-able. How many can do that?

Take care!

Jake
That looks real dapper,a person can really go "Up Town"sporting those.That sewing is just right fancy.

Ed

Ed,

And it was actually fun to do! Thanks!

As D.W. stated, we need to up the "ante" now...10...then 12.....etc. I had better start practicing with my square awl.

Thanks once again for your most gracious comments.

Ed,

I've been meaning to mention something I told you a while back. #346 dacron stitcher thread is equivalent to #5 linen cord, not #6.

Sorry for the confusion.

Jake,
I don't know which I more impressed by, the stitching or the photos! No contest really. It's the stitching for sure. I've run a curved needle for 32 years and tho I've not gotten into the fudge wheel much yet, your work blows me away. I'd have to see the outsole sitching done by hand to say if you're crazy or just in love with the subject.
Really good looking boots, pard!
PK