Seeking knowledge or survey

[lancepryor]

DW:

Thanks for that great video. It is very enlightening to see the proper use of the hand-leather and the thumbstall.

I have 2 questions that I thought of while watching, and I hope you won’t mind answering them.

First, I noticed that you are not removing any lasting tacks as you inseam. Do you glue the upper to the insole when you last? If so, any details would be helpful, since I can’t quite figure out how you would do this.

Second, regarding the pulling of the thread with the second bristle -- the ‘maker’ I spent time with simply pulled both bristles simultaneously, I guess the thinking being that each thread is sort of gradually getting thicker, so neither bristle has the very thin/weak/easily dislocated section going through the holdfast alongside/contra the thick part of the opposing thread, and hence has an easier time of it. So, can you say why you do it the way you do? Have you tried both approaches and found your way to work better? My impression is that you rarely if ever lose a bristle, so obviously your approach works well for you, but I’d love to know your views and experience in this matter.

As always, thanks.

Lance

ps Please feel free to move this post to different location if that would be appropriate.

[dw]

Lance,

Re: removing the lasting tacks...first, I wet last. This means that when the leather dries it pretty much has a "set" to it and won't pull back much, (if at all) when the tacks are pulled. Second, I wipe most of the forepart when wiping the toe. I don't pull that wiping strip until I am ready to inseam. Third, I edited the video to eliminate shots of me pulling what few tacks were left in for perfect security's sake. (It was just extra footage that wasn't critical to the technique.)

Regarding pulling the thread...the maker I learned from pulled both at the same time as well. And that's the way I did it for about thirty years.

I started pulling first one side then the other when I developed a bad case of tennis elbow a couple years back. It's hard to explain, but it helped. And when I recovered and saw that it didn't slow me down at all, I just never went back. If there is any question of the bristle breaking or pulling off this technique helps. It doesn't eliminate the danger but it helps.

Thanks for your questions and your remarks.

I'm glad the video helped.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dw]

I am thinking seriously about making some dress shoes...maybe alligator. I have made shoes...and mostly rather dressy lace-up boots...before but when I get the the part where you set the eyelets I get crazy. I went to a lot of trouble to locate and purchase real high quality, baked enameled rolet eyelets. And I bought a German eyelet setter. But it still chips the enamel.

Now, I also have a blind eyelet setter and some blind eyelets and I'd like to use it on a pair of dress shoes. But I've never seen it done and I'm not sure how to go about doing it...or when in the sequence the eyelets are set. Someone told me that blind eyelets are set after the holes have been punched and the lining and upper closed--right before lasting, in other words. Frankly, I can't see it...I can't picture how it would be done...and it has created a twenty year mental block.

So, if anyone is familiar with blind eyelets, I'd appreciate any advice, tips, or cautions you can give me. Or even a step by step tutorial.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[romango]

DW - What I do is glue in the liner, along the top line, leaving the eyelet area unglued. This holds the liner in position. Then add a reinforcing piece of leather, skived and glued to the liner. Then punch your hole through all 3 pieces. Set the eyelets through the liner and reinforcement. Then glue the outer over the eyelet area. The holes will already be lined up but you can adjust any creep by using a round awl to keep everything in line. Then you are ready to sew the liner to the outer.

Hope this makes some sense. I'll bring a pair of shoes with me that have this arrangement. Also, I'll make sure to take some pictures next time I do this.

[dw]

Rick,

I thought it would be something like that...the trick of cementing the liner place, except for right along the facing, is very smart, however.

I wonder what was done before modern cements came along? I am not sure of the timeline but maybe modern cements and blind eyelets were contemporaneous?

thanks..

not long now

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[romango]

I would think that eyelets were a relatively modern invention as they are made from stamped metal. They probably post date cement by quite a bit.

[paul]

Wow Rick,

Thank you. I enjoyed your answer. I've often wondered about blind eyeletts myself, looking at them off and on for 25 years of shoe repair.

I have an order for a pair of oxfords later in the year, and I'll use your technique.

Thanks for sharing.

PK

[shoestring]

Rick,

Reading your explanation on the "blind eyeletts" I got a wild thought while testing my knowledge and did just that using the manner described sort of.I put the eyeletts through the reenforceing piece than put everything together.In other words you can not see the eyeletts on either side. But I did not know that there were special eyeletts for doing that.Where can they be found.

Ed

[romango]

Nothing special about the eyelets. You can get about any diameter and barrel length you like here: Fastener Supply

5108.jpg

[mrs_hill]

Can anyone give me some good advice on fixing a ladies belt for one of my customers?

the belt is one that is glued together with brown on one side and black on the other. I began to use Master's all pourpose cement to glue it back together but it wasn't holding! then I looked and it is "man made materials". Would it be better to use vina-bond or something else on it? Or maybe I'm not applying the master's correctly.

Wh

[paul]

Wendy,
My recommendation would be to clean off the old glue as well as possible, scratch both sides some and use a glue specific to man made materials.
Good luck,
PK

[shoestring]

Wendy,
I have used rubber cement on man made belts with good results.Do as Paul stated and use two coats let the first dry over night then the other until tacky,place a heavy object on it again over night then let them have it.

Ed

[mrs_hill]

Thank you, now I have another belt repair that I need help with. I need to replace the end of this belt and I happen to have an almost perfect match of leather. I had a friend take some pictures for me so I am going to try to post them but if they dont show up I'll try again.

I need to know how I can make the edges look like this.

5124.jpg

also there is some plastic stuff in here. Does anyone know what it might be and where I can get it?

5125.jpg

[mrs_hill]

OH those pictures are bad, they are way too big!
HELP --I don't know how to make them smaller.

I'm surprised you all let me be on this forum thing.

[paul]

Wende,

Big is good for my old eyes.

It looks like we're looking at a braided belt, with a billet that has broken out at the most frequently used hole. Am I right?

Kind of hard to explain this. Because I have no idea of your familiarity with leather terms. SO I'll just dive in.

Billets like this I make with 5 ounce leather, which will give you 10 ounces for a finished billet. For an edge like this, as you ask, you want to use veg tan leather. You'll be able to slick the edges with something like gum tragacanth, (you can get it at a Tandy store) or even saddle soap. I've even seen a credible job done with just water and a piece of brown paper sack all crumpled up. I use an old piece of canvas and gum trag.

Put dye on your edge first, rub off the excess and let it dry. Sand it as smooth as you can with maybe 400 grit wet/dry sand paper and redye it. While that's drying, burnish it with your canvas rag or whatever, to a polish. Follow it with Leather Sheen or another flexible acrylic edge coat, either in clear (it'll look white) or black, whatever color your edge is.

As to your question about the plastic filler, you can use any kind of flexible filler you might have on hand. A strip of 3-4 ounce chap leather would work. Cut it narrower than the billet by about 3/16 on each side, leaving a margin to stitch it close between your layers of veg tan.

An edge tool is best to use to trim the fuzzies and fibers off of the billet edge, but you can also burn some of that off carefully, and then go ahead and dye and slick as described above.

Remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and either way he doesn't like it. So go ahead and give it a try.

And another thing to remember, the first one is practice, and all rest are too.

PK

[sharon_raymond]

Greetings, I would like to make a sandal held onto the foot with a long thong that wraps around the ankle several times. I am wondering what leather might be best to cut into long strips about 3/16ths-inch wide, for this purpose; something soft and comfortable, not too "hairy", but that has some body and won't stretch "too much". I'd appreciate any suggestions, thanks, Sharon

[paul]

Sharon,

Ooh, that's narrow! I don't know what leather would be good for such a narrow strip as 3/16". Maybe an English Harness leather. I'd worry about stretch though, with something so narrow. There might also be a problem with it twisting.

Sorry to be negative, but it's not commonly seen that narrow and there might be a reason.

Good luck,

PK

[mrs_hill]

sharon,

Have you considered leather lacing? I looked in a catalog of mine and they sell 3/16" glove lacing and tassel lacing. Would that work for you?

[tomo]

Sharon,
3/16" won't be very strong and it will roll up.
I'd cut a strip of veg - even russet or skirt or brible or maybe a veg latigo 3/16" and 3/16" thick, wet it then roll it under a board or pull it through a rein rounder until it was like a thong. You could dye russet or skirt the right colour before you rounded it. You could also take the 4 corners off with an edge tool to assist rounding first. If you use a board - say a smoothh cutting board or similar place the damp leather on a smooth surface and run the board back and forth across it until it rounds, doesn't take long.
This method will be way stronger than flat leather and far superior for the job and it definitely won't be hairy!
In fact you could cut it smaller than 3/16" and it'd still be stronger than flat thonging - even Kangeroo which is the strongest you'll get for it's size

More power to y'awl
T.

[relferink]

Sharon,

My guess would be the horse strips, similar to what's used for welts. I agree with Wende, why not use a leather lace. The type used for baseball gloves. I don't know what is used for those laces or how it's tanned. I would guess a veg tan but I'm not sure. You can run it through a flame it you feel it's to "hairy", dye reasonably well as long as the color is not to much of a primary color.
Tom, do you get veg tanned Kangaroo for this type of work?

Rob

(Message edited by relferink on June 24, 2007)

[mrs_hill]

Paul, my cat is half skinned!

I have the first part of the billet remade. this is a result of my second try I don't think it's too bad... (I stuck this in my scanner so I'm not sure how the picture will look)

I tried to finish the edge, a practice edge of course, with what I had on hand like sandpaper, brown shoe polish, rubber cement, but it doesn't look as nice as I want it too, so I need to order some of that gum tragacanth stuff. I'm sure I'll use it often in my new adventures. (of course if you or others have additional tips I'd be happy to recieve them)

thanks for your help!

[artzend]

Wende,

If you are edging veg tanned leather you can get an edger from Tandy for not much money and this will give you nice rounded edges easily. Just push it along. You can apply the gum tragacanth when you have the rounded edge and polish it up with canvas or an edge slicker from the same store.

Tim

[mrs_hill]

Thanks,

I guess my picture didn't work. maybe I'll finish the edge first before I try again.

[tomo]

Robert,

Kangaroo makes the best thonging as it's the strongest leather for it's weight there is, that's one reason they use it for the finest whips - think 36 strand braiding here!
But the thickest you get is only 1.5 - 2mm.
Dog was suppose to be very strong too, but I think you'd need a sense of humour to want to use it.
Rawhide thongs might work but you'd need to break it so that it was a bit more user friendly.

More power to y'awl
T.

[dw]

Apropos of little or no importance...

Some years ago, we had a conversation on this forum about wet lasting. I used the term "mulling" to describe the process of wetting the leather and letting it sit overnight in a plastic bag or wrapped in several sheets of newspaper.

Someone (I don't remember who and it is of no importance)...challenged that usage. At the time I didn't know where I had picked it up, but going through Volume I of Golding this morning...,on page 79, in a discussion about springing vamps, is a sentence that makes me think it was a common term used by respected shoemakers at one time in the history of this trade.

To whit:

...when uppers are "mulled" they give more, and patterns should be reduced accordingly.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member