The Crispin Colloquy

Courtney

cup the top surface of the wedge but be prepared to grind some off the bottom once it is stuck to the upper.

Tim

Alright, so dont cup the heel? only the sloped part?

Thanks,
Courtney

No, cup the whole top surface, heel area too.

Tim

Awesome, Thanks

Paul
I think AE puts the shank mainly on the lateral side of the shoe because that's where your weight goes, if I remember the pedorthic lectures I've suffered through correctly. When a "normal" person walks, the heel strikes first, landing on the outer edge (so the heel wears on the outer edge). As the step proceeds, weight is transferred along the 5th met (and the AE shank)to the lateral joint, then across to the medial joint (this is how you wear the hole in the middle of the sole), then you push off on the big toe.

Thank you Dan,

I'm glad my memory was correct on that.

My information didn't come from pedorthic lectures, but I have heard the same thing about the energy of normal gait. Their shanks are very unique.

It has been so long since I saw the insides of an AE that I didn't want to sound too positive.

Thank you for the affirmation.

Looking forward to seeing you next month.

Paul

All.

I figured I would toss some old school bottoming techniques in here for those of you into CW period boots and shoes. The 'conventional' manner of stitching the welt to the inner sole and upper is the standard now, and it goes back to Colonial America. While this technique was kept alive during the Civil War in the big factories up north, the South was attaching welts any way they could ie. by nails, inner half soles both pegged and nailed, welts stitched to the uppr and glued and nailed to the inner sole. With the invention of the Blake stitcher and later McKay in the early days of the war, welts were stitched this way and then hand stitched to the soles. Overall pegging was preferred as most surviving examples of boots and shoes were pegged. For a leather sole in wearability and repairability, nothing beats a pegged sole, so long as it is done correctly.

Cheers,
Old Sckool JesseLee

Jesse,

Just to keep things straight, sewing the welt through the uppers to the edge of the insole starts in Germany in the late 1400s--same method of welting continued through to today's hand-sewn welted. Hand-sewn welted continued through the 1800s, too, but only for the best quality boots and shoes--pegging (1820-30s on), and later MacKay (Blake) sewed was always for cheaper but tough utilitarian goods. Women's and children's, in the 1800s, included a lot of hand-sewed turnshoes.

Could you tell us where you've seen antique boots/shoes with the welt MacKay'd to the insole, then the outsole stitched by-hand? And how was that inseam formed to feed through a MacKay? I can't say as I've seen those, but it might be fun to try.

And, just to be a good-natured muck-raker here, pegged soles are ok, but stiffer than welted, and if you don't wear them all the time the pegs dry out, shrink and get loose (now as back then). It all depends on circumstances

Nasser,

I have one more question about the deck stitch, but thought I'd better move the inquiry here.

Does the insole extend beyond the last? If not, what makes that bead around the bottom?

Kieran,

The insole doesn't extend beyond the feather of the last,but the weight/thickness of the materials of the welt will extend a little when folded.

Nasser

First I must thank Peter Oakley for the wonderful demonstration of pegged shoes at the AGM.

I found it quite interesting and I think I thought I would try a pair while I had it fresh in my mind.

I however did forget to ask a question, and/or inspect the samples as good as I should have.

When making a pegged bottom, what type of leather should the insole be.

My first instinct was to use standard insole bend, but I thought I should verify before trying a pair.


Terry

As part of the demo by Peter, he also used an interesting pegging stand. I thought I would post a few pictures I took.


stand Peter was using

stand in the shoe shop at Sturbridge, MA

I had not seen a stand like this before and thought it would be interesting to show.

Terry

Terry,
The leather I use for my insoles is just bog standard insole shoulders. The pegging jack that I used at the AGM is one where I made a leather 'adapter' to increase the height of the rear leg, to accommodate lower heeled lasts than what the jack was designed for.

Petronius

Terrry, Peter,

It's hard not to like and admire those jacks, Peter. There's something elegant and simple and almost like comfort food about them. Especially when you think about how many shoemakers have used them or how much thought and time went into making them.

That said, Dick Anderson's "inseaming" (and pegging) jacks are a good modern equivalent. What's more the forepart rest is adjustable for all heel heights.

Second one down Here

Probably not as inexpensive or as soul satisfying as making your own, however.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Peter,

Welcome aboard! Glad to see you here.

Emmett

DW,

In reading your post I must say I have to agree on all points; you do have a particularly articulate way with words.

I have always found the elegance of a solution to be entrancing.

I must also mention that I have looked at Dick's jacks and found them to have a modern version of this elegance.

I do find it interesting though that you mention the soul satisfying part. Your discussion of awl hafts elsewhere, struck me as well in this area. I even spent a moment looking at lathes, thinking about the fun I could have. Sighhhhh, all the things it would be nice to find time to do

I have also been around the block enough times to know that "inexpensive" is relative since past soul satisfying activities have usually not proven to be "inexpensive" (especially if you include your own time). They are usually very educational and enjoyable though, and the understanding you end up gaining about the products involve tend to repay multiple times.

Of course true interest can be measured by how long the subject remains interesting, and peoples choices in this area makes us unique....shoes is one area I seem to never get tired of

Terry

Terry,

Thanks for the kind words...

With regard to costs being relative...it's really true and sometime you have to find a balance between "doing" and "being done to," I guess. Between soul-satisfying here and soul-soul satisfying over there. It is indeed all about time...and priorities.

The bit with the lathe is a good example. I started out with a Grizzly mini-lathe which cost me about $129.00 when I got it. I made a few tools from old files (considered a no-no as they tend to be brittle...still using one however). And I made a awl haft or two. But I knew I was ignorant and needed some guidance and so I got on-line--woodturning forums--and sent for some catalogues. That did it...I was lost from that point on.

I sold the Grizzly and a bunch of my fly fishing equipment and bought a Jet (about $250.00 then) and about $6-$700.00 worth of gouges skews, scrapers, calipers, chucks, filter masks, and books, etc.. I made a number of bowls and a couple of really lovely vases which, when I look at them now I can't believe I made. I wanted desperately to go even further and get a VicMarc shortbed (a couple of $k) but space limitations as well as trouble with dust pulled me short of the brink.

Nowadays I make a couple of lovely awl hafts ever now and again, and I managed to get a distaff made for my wife's spinning wheel last Christmas. But even though I have probably paid for the lathe and tools with hafts and, again, some of the nice things I've made for our home, it would have been cheaper to just buy the hafts. And even though I'm too boogered up to use them I'd still have my precious Hardy Perfects.

All that said, life moves on and I have minimal regrets. Everything teaches.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW,

I believe my personal experience with stained glass "mirrors" your experiences with the lathe quite well. After a number of projects, many I must admit justifying the equipment I bought, I talked myself out of a kiln as soon as I tried to figure out where to put it. Well to be honest even after wondering where I would put it, it took me a while to talk myself out of it. I still believe I could have made some really cool who knows what, plates or something like that out of slumped glass.

I was however quite excited by the boots Paul recently posted. It made me think of all the pattern designs I worked with or dreamed of in glass and applying this glass working knowledge to leather (other than being able to break a piece of glass for scraping leather); as you mention, everything teaches at least if you are willing to learn.

The group on this site on average does seem to have a high willingness to learn. Does the desire to make shoes bring this out? I must be getting a little tired...I am beginning to sound like a page out of "Romance of the Shoe".

Terry

Hello all (and first post),

I have been trying to hold my who/where/howto questions and answer them on my own with a little bit of effort and searching, however, I wanted to get some clarity on shanks and flat soled shoes.

I am learning to make shoes through this board, books, and questions (perhaps school if I can ever get a few weeks off from work.)

I was in Baltor & Sons (wonderful store and people, esp. towards beginners) showing them a quick sketch of my design, and they said shanks are not needed on flat-soled shoes.

My understanding is that shanks serve to reinforce the arch of the sole when it lifts off the ground to meet the top of the heel. I wanted to use shanks to make sure that my shoes bend only at the ball of the foot, and do not collapse in the arch area, thus failing to support the foot. I have a pair of modern indoor soccer shoes that are completely stiff, as if they had a shank in them (they are injection molded, but same principle), and they offer great support. So I was wondering why not use a shank, even though the soles are flat?

Nick

The heel in higher heeled shoes will tip under the shoe if there is no shank in place, but with a low heeled shoe (20mm) you don't really need one. Mind you, that said, it's always best to use one, so go ahead and use one. It will make a better shoe.

Tim
www.shoemakingbook.com

Nick,

The other purpose of the shank-piece is to stiffen the sole through the waist so the bottom flexes only where the foot does, across the joints. If the bottoms flex everywhere, the shoes are fatiguing to walk in. For light shoes just make one out of stiffer leather. Antique footwear had shank-pieces long before the elevated heel was invented

For those of you who use scrap leather to fill the cavity between the insole and outsole, how do you go about shaping this leather? I have tried using a fine rasp but find it tends to tear up the leather, and thus it is difficult to get a very even surface. Any experience or advice would be much appreciated.

Lance

Lance,

I just walk over to my sander and use the fine grit paper. But then I use my sander for lots of stuff because I have one.

I've always figured that Luchesse boots were trimmed in this area with a skive knife. But I've not known for sure.

In any case it would seem to be a combination of the right temper of leather, a sharp knife and a good bond of the surfaces.

I'll be interested in other replies.

Paul

Lance,

Very sharp Tina shoemaker's knife (tranchet?) laid flat on the insole lining and skive it flush with the inside edge of the welt. Trimming up the welt so it is close to flush with the holdfast aides in this process.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

I am wrestling with insole construction as I narrow down my material and fit choices. I am following Skyrme's book for my shoemaking process and was wondering how to incorporate Poron, or any synthetic material (that cannot be skived, right?) into the insole during lasting. I am assuming that cushioning will not be added post-lasting, because it's not a nominal thickness that can just be slipped in like a sock liner.

This is all theory and planning in my head - adding Poron would create a gap and break the smooth blending of insole and feather edge of the last. So how do you work with a synthetic material like Poron or other foams, can they be skived? Should they be skived?

If using Poron, would I just use a more thin insole leather to provide a surface for the shank to attach to, cork filler and ultimately upper gluing surface?

I am also worried about nailing through the Poron to secure the insole leather. Perhaps you could wrap the insole leather in cheesecloth instead of tacking to mold the form?