The Crispin Colloquy

lcresson,

Check out this site:

http://www.shoetrades.com/

Enjoy,

Erick Wilcox

FWIW, I don't find the Adrian book too helpful. It seems to be aimed at lastmakers for factory shoes, rather than bespoke applications. Further, much of its content addresses women's and children's shoes, rather than men's. It really only has a few pages on men's lasts. Given what I recall as the cost of the book via Shoetrades, I don't think it is worth buying.

Perhaps others can weigh in with their opinions on this book.

Lance Pryor

Personally, I use Karl's book as my "Bible" but I'd have to agree with Lance, it's mainly for production last model makers. In Karl's capacity as head of product development for Brown Shoe at the time he wrote/compiled the book, his main focus was surely educating his readers on the art of making production models, i.e. being sure the grade between sizes and widths was correct, etc. It also makes sense that he focused on women's and children's lasts at that was by far the majority of the footwear Brown Shoe produced at the time.

That said, there are some good standards in the book for what makes up a good fitting "model size" in those genders and anyone wanting to make there own lasts, especially on a conventional lathe where accomodation models will be required to grade sizes, could benefit from some of the grading info and rules as well. However, if you're looking for information about how to fit the foot or make true custom modifications, this is not the text invest in.

Bill

To all:

The "Custom Lasts" and "Last Production" links on my web-site have been broken. Each time you visit the site, in order to get these links to work you must first go to one of the other two links in the "LASTS" menu ("Last Development" or "Last Consulting"). From there you can access to two ailing pages. Once you go to any page outside the "LASTS" menu, you will have to take this same detour back to "Custom Lasts" and "Last Production" pages.

My present hosting service (which shall remain nameless) has not been able to resolve the problem and cannot explain why I can no longer modify the site myself. So this "detour" is the only solution until such time as I rebuild the site and post it on another hosting service.

I will do this as quickly as possible but it is hockey season and I've got season tickets and games to watch on TV and.....oh wait, I guess I have time after all. This is actually the latest into a year that my beloved St. Louis Blues have gone without losing at least one game to DW's Colorado Avalanche. There's a silver lining around every cloud.

Bill
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com

Another question.
What's the best way to decide on the shape of the last ie. The sole shape?
Years ago in a fit of exuberance and youthful enthusiasm, I had a pair of lasts made to my size. I wanted to make western boots (still do) so I dis-assembled a pair of boots I had and sent the insole to the last makers here in NZ. However I want to make a pair of long black 'English' riding boots, infact I have a tentitive order for a pair, but can't get or don't have an insole from a boot I like.
The heel is 1" and I'll go from there. I know some people have built them on conventional shoe lasts, but I'd like something with more shape and form over the instep, - DW's boots being a primo example, and with a more rounded toe to follow traditional or more classical European lines.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
More power to y'awl.
T.

Tom,

Bearing in mind that except in the most ideal situations and with the most perfect fit, an insole will distort from its original shape...AND size...once it's been worn for just a little while, I think that relying on an insole to determine the last shape or size is asking for problems.

If you contact Bill Tippit and tell him what you need in the way of heel height, toe shape, and such, generally he can come up with a model that will fit the bill. He may even send you several "prototypes" to look at.

Once you find a last that you like...generally...or even one that has a good "reputation," try it out, on yourself, and see if it comes anywhere near to what you had in mind. Then, if it does, stick with that model number.

Insoles and insole shapes can, and often should, be made to conform to the customer's foot rather than the other way around.

A western boot last made for a 8/8" heel, and made with a round toe might be just the ticket but bear in mind that toe shapes can be a bit deceiving, as the final toe (on the finish boot) will often be a bit wider than the toe on the last. Also you might not want to close off the option of modifying the toe shape...in the same way and for the same reasons as you might modify the insole shape.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Thanks DW.
I understand what you're saying. I've been reading your uploads of Goldings until my eyes blurred - might print them off...
I bought a new computer and printer last weekend, and the difference is amazing. I couldn't download files that big before; my old computer just chocked, with this new one I downloaded the second volume in under 20 minutes.

While we're here I'd like to thank you for the effort you've put into that task, and I think your wife needs a pat on the back too, she's gotta be one in a million. Does she happen to have any unmarried sisters per chance?? ...Maybe we better not go there. Anyway, thanks again for your unstinting generosity.

That question about the measuring gauge came up because an internet auction house here (www.trademe.co.nz) has one. If it's not that useful then I'll flag it.
More power to y'awl.
T.

DW:

Thanks for making the effort to put the Golding on line; I can only imagine how much time and effort went into doing so.

After reading the Sabbage section of the book, I was interested in how folks choose a last for their customers; Tom’s question has added fuel to that fire.

So, I am curious if people use anything similar to Sabbage’s approach to selecting the proper SHAPE of last for their customer? I understand that the size, toe shape, and heel height are of course separate factors, but do you use the foot tracing and/or foot imprint to decide on the shape of the last? My impression is that most bootmakers have a few preferred lasts that they’ve grown familiar and comfortable with, but how does this fact interact with the variety of shapes that customers’ feet can take. Does anyone use a similar approach to that described by Sabbage on pp. 213 and following?

Along the same lines, what rules do people prefer for fitting up the lasts? Do you use the same rules as Sabbage, e.g. having the width of the last sole always fall on the tracing at the mid-joint of the large toe (p. 213 – 214), etc?

Also, DW, a follow-up question from a previous line of inquiry, which is stimulated by the Sabbage writings: I’m not entirely sure where the “0” point lies for the Sabbage’s Sectionizer approach? Does it lie at the extreme point of the last, or at the extreme point of the insole/foot imprint? I THINK that the drawings on pp 192 & 193 convey the latter; however, the drawings on p 214 (figs. 29 and 29a) seem perhaps to convey the former, so I am uncertain as to where the “0” point is.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this topic, and for the hard work on this Volume of Golding.

Lance,

You've asked a question (or several) that are not easily answered in my opinion. Since you "pulled my chain" so to speak, I'll go first and if anyone else wants to jump in or share their approach...they are most welcome.

I think you have to start with the idea that as fundamental as it is to the foot and to Sabbage's methods, the footprint is not the be all and end all. It is essential information, that is undeniable. But depending on the firmness of the flesh of the foot; depending on the fleshiness of the foot (different things in my view); and depending on bone structure and ligament flexibility, the footprint will almost never give you a true reading for the length of the foot. That has to come from a sizing stick.

Why? Because, especially at the back of the heel--where it rounds under the foot--the footprint can never be as long as the actual flesh and bone structure (the substance) of the foot itself.

On the other hand, the footprint may be the epitome of the foot widthwise. I use it to the exclusion of any other graphic representation. In other words, the insole, and the last that generates that insole, needs to be almost identical to the footprint(widthwise)...at least through section 9 and probably through section 10. If the last is wider at any point in that region, ugly wrinkles will develop. If it is narrower, the shoe or boot will have a tendency to run over. Bear in mind that the natural shape of the foot itself--being wider than the footprint some small distance above the floor (or insole)--will ensure that the shoe itself will have that nice shape that overhangs the welt. But too much of that can cause problems.

Then too, putting a customer on top of an insole that is narrower than his actual weight bearing surface tends to squeeze the metarsals together..especially with modern lasts that have some bottom radius in the forepart. Any previous damage to the foot or congenital weakness in ligament support and you can aggravate or initialize problems such as neuromas. etc. I speak from first hand knowledge in this regard.

So bottom line is that I am religious about the width of the foot and making the insole to fit the footprint...or maybe a better way of saying it is that I fit the last to the footprint and that creates an insole that fits the foot.

Using the sizing stick will give you the most accurate length you can derive. And if, at the same time you measure the length of the foot from the back of the heel to the center of the medial ball joint at the same time you are measuring the length of the foot from the heel to toe, you will have a critical element for determining how the footprint (and the foot) relates to that very empirical length measurement and and where to find Sabbage's point "0."

When I have obtained those two measurements--heel to toe, and heel to medial ball joint--I plug, or overlay, the heel to joint measurement on the footprint starting at the medial joint (you should mark this point on the footprint when taking it) and extending toward the heel. This will give me the "0" point/section. Measuring forward from "0," plugging in the heel to toe length, yields section 11. The rest is pretty straight-forward. But in almost zero instances will the ball to heel *measurement* yield a "0" section that is equal or very close to the heel end of the footprint.

What you do with the information generated through this approach is a matter for another discussion, but from this point on Sabbage's Sectionizer has always worked for me and always been complimentary with my lasts.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Dear Bill,
My sympathy on your web site dysfunction. Has the hosting service tried deleting the directory and letting you re-upload the site? Have you tried using software to check for any recursive links? Otherwise, your site is a terrific effort. I hope Microsoft was not too much trouble.

On another note pertinent to this forum, I am looking for a copy of Carl Adrian's book on last making. I do have and read the Last Deisgn by the Bulgarian; which has alot of useful information on how feet change as people grow etc. And describes the proportional relationship between different foot measures.

But I cannot stop there. Also, leads to a metal last stick and caliper to measure toe spring; and the 1/8" stacker to measure the heel height would be greatly appreciated. Or to someone who might be inclinded to make them.

Thanks in advance for your help with the above.

Regards,
Lisa

Whew,

Honorable D.W., that's alot to grasp, and I'm working on it. It would not even be possible to try without your diligent, time intensive efforts making the Sabbage's Sectionizer and Volumes IV and VI available to us all. THANK YOU!

Now a question to any takers -

I have made several pair of shoes for a client with one surgically corrected "club foot'. I started with plaster lasts but the plaster only survives one making (usually), so I made a plaster last in plastic resin. This plastic last works great for her shoes. Now I'm making a boot and cannot figure how I will remove the plastic last from the boot since it has no break. Can I simply cut it with the band saw (before making) creating a break and not be concerned with the couple millimeters lost by the saw curf (I'll smooth the cut) or do I need to create a way to fill gap equal to the saw curf? I've read that a couple millimeters is not significant in girth.

Comments welcome.

David Ulan

David Ulan

Until a few years ago I was very sceptical of lasts made from plaster. I simply could not see how it was possible to get the last out, without breaking up the plaster. This thinking was completely shattered during a visit to a very skilful, custom-fitted hiking bootmaker in California. He used plaster lasts all the time and had developed a very efficient way of getting the lasts out of the finished boot and keeping them useable for next time.

In simple terms he clamps the one-piece plaster last into what I can only describe as a specially made carpenter’s mitre block. This is not unlike the gadget used to produce accurate 45 degree angles for the corners of picture frames. The type they sell in Home Depot. The angle on his block is about 60 degrees and he has devised a clamping system which can securely hold a plaster last laying on its side without damaging it. Using this custom made jig he saws the last in two using a small standard panel saw.

He then sticks (using sole adhesive) the cheapest thick cardboard he can find, onto both surfaces of the saw cut. Corn flake box cardboard is ideal because it delaminates easily, an important requirement. Once the two layers are stuck and fully dried. He then sticks the two halves of the last together again with soling attaching adhesive. The cardboard produces a bond which is perfectly strong enough under compression inside the boot and nicely makes up for the thickness of the saw cut. However, this “joint” tears apart easily when the back section is pulled out of the boot in the usual way with a piece of cord through the hole drilled in the back section of the last cone.

I see no reason why such an idea could not work with a plastic last as long as the last you start with is solid (with no hinge) in the first place.

As you will gather I was impressed by this method of last exit. I have been working in the footwear trade with hand shoemakers, as well as in manufacture for more years than I care to mention but this I was impressed by this method.

As I get older I am regularly staggered by how much there is still to learn about shoemaking. Perhaps that is what makes it is the ultimate habit-forming “drug”.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

(Message edited by frank_jones on March 05, 2005)

Frank, David,

When I first started making "shoes," I cast the foot with medical "cast" bandages--the kind that are essentially long strips of gauze impregnated with plaster.

I'll not go into the hoary details but suffice it to say that when I had the cast, I would drop a chunk of wood (doesn't have to be too big and it will be surrounded/embedded in the resin)into the instep area and pour a meltable resin into the casting. Much like what you describe, David.

When everything had cooled and cured I peeled the plaster off the resin and drilled a diagonal hole from the "ankle" area into the instep and into the wood. Then I sawed a diagonal cut...like this: \ ...through the instep and through the block of wood.

As with your friend, Frank, I then glued some heavy pasteboard to face of the cut...to compensate for the material removed by the saw...and screwed the two pieces together with a lag bolt--into the previously drilled hole.

If the cut is made slanting downward, from instep towards the heel (not too steep and angle), the heel section of the "last" will lift right out, easy as kiss my hand.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

David,

You were a help with my sewing machine problems. Maybe I can return the favor. I make lasts from old maple table tops using a band saw, contact wheel sander and rasps. Purchased lasts are a bargain if you consider the time.

These are normally slip cone lasts. The slip cone is secured with a wood or lag screw at the top. At the bottom of the slip cone there is a ¾” blind hole drilled vertically, half in the slip cone, half in the last. A ¾” hardwood dowel is glued in the last side of the hole. The half circle keeps the front end of the slip cone from moving around. Of course, the dowel is contoured to match the last. I have never seen a slip cone last other than my own. Maybe there are better ways to do it. I have seen words about holding the slip cone with a cotter pin but don’t know how that works.

The 2mm (.080”, between 1/16” and 3/32”—Yes, I have to convert to English) saw kerf should not make that much difference. You could fill the kerf with glued on poster board or thin leather. I would give the either a good coat of varnish and powder it well. You will have to make some sort of support to hold the last when you band saw it.

David, you asked for the time and I told you how to build a watch. Hope it helps.

Chuck

Frank, DW and Chuck,

I'm on my way to the shop now, posterboard in hand, to slice the heel off and back fill with cardboard. Going to try the slice in a similar angle to what DW describes, about along the short heel measure. And I'll cut with confidence.

Great advice, this should work!

Thanks for the quick responses,

David

Chuck,

They say great minds work in the same way. Without seeing a slip cone last, you have pretty much duplicated what is done commercially. The only difference being that such lasts do use a cotter pin to hold the slip cone in place.

A hole is simply drilled, straight down, from the rear slope of the slip cone into the main body of the last (under the slip cone) and a cotter pin is inserted. It *will* hold the slip cone suffient to the purpose, but if you are worried, simply take a pliers and bend a slight kink into one "leg" of the cotter pin. This will snug up the fit considerably. I do that with all my slip cone lasts, just as a matter of course.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

David,

Not quite on the short heel line. Start at, or just slightly forward of, the front end-point of the short heel--between the short heel and the high instep and cut downward to about the breast of the heel (one third the length of the last)...maybe two and a half inches forward of the back of the heel.

BTW, the chunk of wood embedded in the resin gives the lag screw something to anchor onto...(into?)

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Yes, DW, over a cup of coffee and a sketch I realized what you meant when you said "not too steep an angle" I'll cut accordingly. Too late for the chunk of wood since they are already made, but ...next time.

David

Ok Fellers,

Neat ideas, but how do you combat the problem of busting the cast up when lasting, pegging, etc.?

To all:

I apologize for the "radio silence". I've been a little busier than I expected so early in the new venture and as some of you are aware, some of that activity is with custom lasts. Unfortunately, a lot of it has been in rebuilding the crippled web site which is now fully operational again and has a lot more information than before. Check it out.

www.globalfootwearsolutions.com

There is a hidden message on the custom last page and anyone who mentions it will get a small discount on the purchase of a custom last. You have to mention it (and where you found it) when ordering and the message will change periodically so you need to mention the current one.

Some of the new info on the site includes the fact that I can now offer wooden lasts and scoop hinges! The wood is hornbeam from Europe or a very hard wood from Brazil. I am not exactly sure what kind the Brazilian wood is but it is a nice, hard wood. Sorry, there is no mass quantity of maple blocks available until the new earth and the new heaven and we probably won't be worried about it then anyway.

I'll be traveling this week but should have access to email and will have my calls forwarded so keep those cards and custom orders coming.

Bill Tippit

Bill,

Great web site! I really enjoyed it. I have several lasts I want to order from you--will email you privately.

One thing I wanted to bring to your attention, and I hope I am not out of line doing so here, but lately "other" lastmakers have gone to a "round rod" type spring in their hinged lasts. It's not strong enough! I have received lasts that I could literally "spring," or open, with my bare hands and minimal effort. I, for one, don't want a last that easy to open. I want it to require some effort. If a maker lasts "seats up," sometimes the stress of "hoisting" will open the last slightly and prevent it from ever closing up again. At which point, a whole passle of problems are introduced into the boot or shoe, not the least of which is that the heel height is changed and the bottom shape is distorted.

I don't know whether the old type springs are still available or why some of these other lastmakers have switched and don't seem to be able (or willing) to "tune" the "new" springs to a tighter setting, but it is a real problem. As diligent and as sensitive to customers' needs as you are, I'm sure you have already addressed this issue or are at least aware of it. But I thought I'd mention it.

Anyway, glad to see you back at it--here's hoping you'll prosper and we'll never have to scramble for a good lastmaker again.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

And, likewise, glad to see you & website back in business, Bill. I don't know if you're worth your weight in gold, but you're a good lastmaker.
DW, when Calvin's old and worn V-cut spring hinge lasts started to lose spring tension (not quite the same as new lasts with feeble springs, but same cure), he'd saw out a wedge from a 2 X 4, fit it to the V cut with a touch on the finisher, and secure it with a long screw driven from the top forward into the back face of the front cone. Not that it is something you would want to do; but handy, fast, and reliable when needed.

Dan,

That's a great idea! I have several of these "new" style lasts with the weak hinges and I never trust them. Maybe now I can take them out of the "boy-I-sure-wasted-my-money-on-this-piece-of-schist" pile.

Thanks for the tip, Dan.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Bill,
Like your site - found your "easter egg" - I'll be giving you a call.

A problem I have with lasts I get from one supplier that I use sometimes is the hinge slips so that the back and front of the last gets slightly skewed - the hinge seems to be (mostly) solid other than this. Is this bad cuts for the hinge, or is it just something that can happen? They seem to skew really easy, I've never seen it with Jones and Vining lasts, or- back when they were around- Vulcan.

Erick

Thanks for the kind words guys.

DW, as for the hinges, if I'm not mistaken (and I often am) the "round rod", sometimes called a "Hanley" (Handley?) hinge, is about all anyone uses anymore. The hinge itself is pretty good. If you're consistently getting loose hinges it's probably because the plastic has voids inside of it that are weakening the mechanism. Holes inside the block can cause the drill bit to drift when the pin holes are drilled or in some cases the holes can be so big that they just cause a little play when there's pressure. It doesn't take much.

Back in the day of the two piece, flat hinges, the manufacturer made a version of one of the pieces that was slightly shorter. When we had a loose hinge in the factory we'd substitute the short piece to eliminate the problem. Sometimes shoe companies would keep an inventory for the same purpose. Dan's suggestion is about the only way I can think of to salvage the last after you've got the problem now. Way to go Dan with the "tip of the day". If I was worth my weight in gold, I've got enough extra I'd just sell a little off and get my own CNC lathe again.

Erick, SOMETIMES, you can take a hammer, or another last, or the side of a bench, and give the knuckle of the last a good smack and it will hold up at least until the next time you break the hinge down. More often than not though, you've got one of those big, nasty, holes in there or something else caused the drilling or slotting to be off and you're stuck with a bug-eyed last. I doubt if you'll ever see that from JV or anyone I'm using. I honestly don't know who the sources are that you guys are talking about and it's best if I don't. Congrats on the easter egg find. I knew I should have made it tougher. Maybe I'll start hiding last trivia questions.

Bill
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com