Tools of the Trade

[D.A. Saguto--HCC]

Edward,

I have several Don Carlos, curved, skiving blades--just long flat bits of steel, you wrap the handle portion with leather to suit yourself. I love 'em, but have no idea where to buy them anymore? You know a source?

All,

BTW, how about lining trimming knives? Also a long thin, flat strip of fine steel, with a little sharpened notch at the end. It's used to take off the surplus lining right up close to a stitch line, for the trim-lining-after-stitching-it assembly. I think I sent my last one to Janne, and haven't been able to replace it.

[bultsad]

Al,
I just received two of the lining trim tools. I ordered them through Montana Leather in Billings MT. 800-527-0227. They are marketed under the name Footwear Associated. Ask for Jaime. I also thought I saw the Don Carlos skiving knives in the Goetz catalog??? Not for sure on that. If you find some please post a source, as mine are getting short and will need replacement.
Jim B.

[jake]

Al & Jim,

The last I heard, Siegel of California was handling Don's products. I would give them a holler @ 800-862-8956.

[D.A. Saguto--HCC]

Jim & Jake,

Thanks guys. I'll LYK if I have any luck on these knives.

[Lisa Sorrell]

Frank,
You may be right. I don't think women are more naturally gifted with scissors, they're just more likely to have a background in sewing like I did.

At the risk of sounding extremely conceited, I will have to concede one point. I can cut a scallop with a deep sharp V and no corners whatsoever with scissors very easily and accurately. But...I've helped and attempted to train several people, and I'm the only one I've known so far who can. Both of the last two girls I've had working for me have a sewing background, and they can't cut scallops without corners with scissors. I was afraid to let them try a knife. Maybe it would work better for them.

Lisa

[Tex Robin]

All,

I have started to write this several tiems and every time I am interrupted and it gets errased.

I have a scar on my left wrist where at the age of 9, I accidently stabbed myself with a very sharp Stanley knife. I remember it bled like a stuck hog. That was about 54 yrs ago in my Father's shop in Throckmorton , Tx and yes the home of Bob Lilly. I went to elementary school with him.

I have several of the knives like DW pictured and don't like any of them. Every time you get the blade just right you have to turn it over and re-start the edge. The Stanley type knives are razor sharp out of the pkg and you can afford to even throw the blades away when they get dull. I usually don't do that but I do discard them after stoning them on my V shaped ceramic stone a couple of times. I am saving them for hard times. I can remember sharpening them down to the nub.

Sorry DW, but I completely disagree with you about the cutting knives. So that makes Celastic, nails and now Stanley knives. Other than that we are pretty close and I guess that is pretty good..

If any of you haven't tried a Stanley knife, go to Wal-Mart and get one and try it. I don't think you can beat them with a stick. And that goes for everybody...TR

[RileyCraig]

When I first started working with leather there were no scissors made that would cut it, even the light weight lining leathers. I used a Stanley knife way back then, and still do. Of course, as all of you know, they make shears now that will cut 7/8 oz. veg. tan like butter...I simply can't use 'em...I tried one time. What I hadn't tried, until today, was the break away knives for skiving. After reading some of the post last evening I had to try. They work great, so thanks for the good information.

Riley

[dw]

Tex,

Dang right it's good! Hey, it's no big deal. I'm just tickled that we *can* disagree and not take offence. You know it doesn't make any difference to me what you use or how you use it. I like knowing that there are other ways and other tools. And sometimes I will explain why I don't like a particular tool or technique myself. But anyone who reads my stuff carefully knows I'm just speaking for myself...that's the only person I *can* speak for...and it's mostly just curiosity and rhetoric, anyway.

As for clicker knives, I think I can get a sharper edge on one than ol' Stanley can provide. And because they are locked into the handle so firmly, they feel better and more stable to me.

I'm sure you know this but some here might not...when you sharpen a knife, if it is really sharp, you can nearly lay the blade flat on your thumbnail and when your thumb is pointed at the floor, the edge of the knife will catch and not slip off.

In clear, clean light, you'll never be able to see the edge of a truly sharp knife if you look at it edge on. Any place you see a gleam is a dull spot.

And when you cut leather, unless it's really poorly tanned chrome, the knife will glide through the leather silently. Anytime you hear that tiny whisper...that infinitesimally small "scritching" sound...you are *breaking* the fibers of the leather, not cutting it.

Like Lisa, I can cut pretty well with a scissors (tested my old skills today, after reading your post, Lisa)--I have a couple pair of Wiss and some of those new German things that will cut 12 iron soling leather. But to cut as cleanly as Lisa, I have to slow way down...much slower than I can cut with a knife and I can't cut as elaborately or as minutely (around fancy collars or toe caps). Give me a good clicker knife and a hard template to cut around and I'm dern near as fast..or faster, probably...as cutting out one pair of vamps with a hydraulic clicking machine...time you get it all set up and turned on. And I don't weigh 4000 pounds...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[fjones]

Lisa

I as you have seen, I am in favour of using scissors for certain jobs in shoemaking, where they are the “appropriate” tool.. However, I do feel very strongly that cutting heavy upper leather and certainly cutting curved scallops, are best done with a suitable knife. As long the knife cut is in one smooth movement from one corner to the next corner, it is easier to avoid points on bumps or dips, than it is with scissors. Certainly if you are training hand boot/shoe makers it is essential they learn to cut with an appropriate knife, meaning one which is suitable for cutting upper leather. This must include keeping the knife sharp, an art in itself.


Rosemary

I have not forgotten the much appreciated invitation.

You will be interested to know that my most treasured scissors are a small pair of “Wiss - made in USA”. They are six inches long overall and I acquired them on my very first shoe factory visit to the USA in 1974. I was in Maryland running a course for Instructors teaching sewing machinists in the footwear industry. The scissors have mainly been used for cutting threads and similar lightweight duties. They have never been sharpened and are still superb in use.

I completely agree with your comment that shoemakers should look into related trades for tools. However, I strongly believe this also applies to material usage as well. For example, some reinforcing materials used in say women’s bras, can sometimes work well in footwear. There is even a fancy name for this way of thinking. It is called “Technology Transfer”.


Tex

I have seen a wide variety of knives used for pattern cutting and clicking, including Stanley Knives. I think people should use whatever they find best for them, as long as it does the job well.

In recent years I have noticed a minority trend away from the traditional clicking knife as in the DW photos, towards the surgeon’s scalpel. These have a stainless steel handle and replaceable blades in various shapes. They are held much like a pencil and are increasingly popular with designers and pattern cutters. They can be obtained from medical supply companies. I don’t use one myself but I will see if I can borrow one to photograph.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

[Tex Robin]

DW,

You DON'T cut collars and wings tips with Knife,do you? You don't use a 31-15 with a cutting needle? TR

[Tex Robin]

Frank,

I use the Stanley or a breakaway for my top cutting and vamp cutting. And I can split a hair with the Stanley blade. They are plenty good for very precise work on the cutting bench. Of course I use a rubber mat under the blade.

I have seen the scalpel knives and they are good but much better is an exacto knife. You can get a small or large one and they can cut stars like nobodys business, perfect. I use them mostly for making my fancy patterns like the intricate wing patterns and inlay patterns. But for inlays and collars and initials I use a 31-15 with a cutting needle and cut all four at the same time.

For cutting my boot tongues, I use a die punch I had made just for that purpose. I have been using the same one for almost 30 yrs and I need another one. The old one is going to pieces. I like the die punch because it makes all of my tongues exactly alike. I also have a die punch for the counter tongues, although it does not go all the way across, so I have to clean up about 2 inches on both sides. I only have one punch so if I do a different style I have to cut it with a knife.

The only thing I find scissors useful for is trimming sheepwool for spreading polish on boots and I use them for cutting heel pads because I can cut the heel round perfect with them and don't need a pattern.

I am a perfectionist and very proficient with my time. I believe that time is the most important thing that we have and I don't believe in wasting any of it. I may sit at the computer for hours doing nothing but punching keys but my bootmaking time is very efficient. I know that there are some that say time doesn't matter but to me it does. Not even one minute of it can be called back..TR

[gcunning]

I have made it clear my skill level so most likely my credence is not very high. I use scissors for vamps, clicker for the tongue final cut. The vamp bottoms you are going to trim anyway. My upper pattern I cut out of paper, then lay it on the leather, outline it with a pen, then cut the leather with scissors, any cut outs I use a blade from a biological supply house and sometimes the clicker. To skive them I use the Stanley break off blade. To do Collars the 'ol 31-15 does a great job, like Tex indicated. Again this works for me and has worked for my teacher.

[Tex Robin]

Gary,

Hey, you are coming along pretty good, all except for the scissors. When I show you my method you will hang the scissors on the wall. And we don't need Joe Allens! We have a couple of good restaurants here in Coleman.. TR

[Lisa Sorrell]

Jay taught me to do most of my inlay cutting with a sewing machine and a blade. But when I bought my own machine, it was a 110W with stitch length gears rather than a lever, so I had to learn to cut everything out with a knife. I use an Exacto knife, and I'm so used to it now I can't get motivated to try the machine cutting again.

My dad works at a small newspaper in the composing room. They use Exacto knives. The cheap blades are the #9's, I think. They only have good steel right on the edge. The #11 blades are good steel all the way through so they can be re-sharpened. His newspaper buys the #11's, then throws them away when they become dull without ever attempting to sharpen them. He saves them for me, so I get all the free Exacto knife blades I can use.

Lisa

[dw]

Tex,

Depends on the intricacies of the collar or inlay. Years ago, before I even knew about cutting out inlays with a 31 class machine, I spent many hours designing and transferring patterns to formica. Yes, formica. I could glue a very precise paper pattern to it and then cut it out with a jeweler's or fret say. Then I refined all the edges with a chainsaw file.I kept at it until the left and right sides were as identical as they could be. Formica tends to bend a bit and this aids in cutting your leather. I could lay the pattern on my leather, hold it down steady and firmly, and especially on the simpler patterns, zip, zip, zip went the old knife and the cuts were made. You can even drill a tiny hole on the margins of the pattern and actually tack it down to the leather for extreme accuracy. That's what we do with the cardboard tops patterns we make for each customer--tack it down and cut very precisely...no worrying whether your adding a tad by cutting on one side or the other of a pen (or pencil) line.

Then I got into more elaborate patterns on collars and toe caps...with cut-outs that needed to be exactly symmetrical side to side and I started looking for a better way. That's when I discovered using the 31-20. Man, what a difference! I still use some of my more elaborate patterns to create my paper pattern...just tracing one side, then flipping it over...prior to pasting it to my leather and cutting it out with the machine. But, for instance, if I have a big star inlay--like on the front of some of my Victorian Cowboy boots, I'll cut it with a knife rather than the needle--it's simply faster.

And yes, you are absolutely right... time *is* important...it's just not the *most* important thing, in my opinion. Every aspiring bootmaker needs to spend those minutes, precious as they are, honing, and refining their skills; and every bootmaker, aspiring or established, needs to realize that, ultimately, what he sells...what makes his product unique and therefor uniquely valuable--to the point that customers will seek you out, and pay triple or quadruple (or more) what they would pay for a factory boot--is the time, and skill, and care, and precision (and all those hours spent "learning" ) he brings to the work...**not** the speed. I've always maintained that if you are selling speed...you are a dead duck as far as being truly competitive. Because you end up competing with the factories...and how can you? You can't possibly compete with the factory for speed and they can't even begin to touch any one of us for quality.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[Tex Robin]

DW,

I have used a formica like material for making tongue patterns. But I don't make permanent patterns for collars or inlays because I change them constantly so I use the mach for the cutting but I do sometimes do something simple like your star with an exacto knife.

What is the 31-20 and what are you doing with it? I didn't quite understand what you were saying...

I don't think you quite understand what I am saying about time. I don't sacrifice my quality for speed.TR

[gcunning]

Tex, how 'bout my 'stache. Will you make me a total convert?
Ha, if they serve chicken fried steak I'm there.

I use plexiglass that I have shaped for my tongue,vamp,and counters. It makes life easy.

[dw]

Tex,

Well, I know exactly what you mean about changing the patterns. But when I sell a pair of boots, the customer is usually looking at a photo of some other pair I made and usually choosing a collar or toe cap/heel scab that I have already done. Think of the formica patterns as permanent records, is all--although I do keep paper "masters." As I said, I usually just trace their outline on to a piece of paper and then make any changes i want to the pattern. That said, if I were starting to make boots today, knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't make formica patterns for those fancy patterns...I'd just keep the masters.

I have three of the 31 class Singers and none of my present machines is a 31-15, although I have owned 31-15's in the past. I have a 31-18 (made in Great Britain, I think) and two 31-20s. All three are virtually identical to the 31-15 except that the bobbins are larger. I use it just like you use your 31-15...I stitch tops with it and I cut out inlays, collars and toe caps with it. Nothing works better! I'm not bad with a clicker knife but I have inlay patterns where the cut is essentially a small, tight, almost circular curve with a radius of 1/16th of an inch or less---try doing that cleanly with any knife! And worse, try to get the same radius and curve on all four panels...bleah! Cutting with a needle is the way to go, no question.

As for the time thing...and sacrificing quality for speed...I never thought you did. It's just part of an older (still somewhat active) discussion that has been going on on the forum since the day the Forum was born. I have this somewhat fierce, and somewhat controversial, belief (which I try to pass on to my students) that a person must choose...between making boots and making money...between speed and quality. This is not as simple an idea as it seems on the surface. Folks want to react with outrage and perhaps even fear when I express it. But if a person thinks about it, it seems, to me, to only be common sense. Because what is really at issue is *focus*...what is "job 1?" If making money is job 1 then, by default, making boots is job 2...or maybe even job three or four. And, following the logic, it might then be reasonably asserted that having made that choice, *every* decision a person makes regarding making boots or the running of his business will be subordinated to the priority of making money. At which point making boots is incidental, isn't it? One would almost have to say such a person was a "moneymaker" rather than a "bootmaker." And that brings us back around to the issue of what we offer and what makes it so valuable and unique. I honestly don't believe that anyone can put their bootmaking...in effect, put their quality...on the back burner and still offer the kind of product that customers will seek and treasure, and spend big bucks on. Unless, of course, you're Italian....joke!! (joke alert!!)

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[Tex Robin]

DW,

Actually my cutting machine is not a 31-15. It is a Singer 44-10. It is a shorter head than the 31-15. My main top machines are Pfaffs I have two 141-5 bl. They are gear feeds like the Singer 110 but heavier and better machines. I have had both of these for over 20 yrs and they have never given any trouble.

I always tell my students that their first machine should be a 31-15 and the second one should be a gear feed machine like the Singer 110,or Pfaff. However the Pfaffs are at a premium price these days. TR
TR

[Tex Robin]

Gary,
No, you can't have a 'stache yet! Hey, where do you get your plexiglass and how thick is it. I have some of my Father's old patterns made from it and I may make some more. TR

[rosynay]

Gary:

Ditto Tex's question on the thickness
and resource of plexiglass and what
tools do you use to cut it with.

RL

[gcunning]

Tex, it's about 1/8 inch in thickness. That's just a guess. I bought it at Lowes. They have it in different sizes. I first tried cutting it with a rotozip. I then cut it just fine with a jigsaw. Carl helped me sand and file them to his patterns.

[Tex Robin]

Gary,
Thanks. Yes, cutting and filing would be the hard part. Aluminum works good too. But I will get some of the plexiglass...TR

[casetradeboots]

To All,

With regard to the use of "plexiglas" as material for patterns. A few years ago I went to the local builders supply store and came out with a couple of sheets of what they called Plexiglas. I tried cutting patterns with both a hot knive and a jig saw. The plexiglas turned out to be very brittle and broke up easily with the knive, saw, and dropping on the concrete floor. (I learned about rubber floor mats at this time too!!)
I went back to the same builders supply and told an employee what the problem was. He showed me a sheet of Lexan, much more expensive than the Plexiglas, and it works well, provided some patience is applied when cutting the patterns out and sanding them to fit the patterns.
Just my experience with the stuff

Floyd Case

[dw]

All,

I've never used the plexiglas...it's probably really good. But you can head on over to your local cabinet shop and buy broken or scrap pieces of formica for next to nothing. It's a bit hard to cut (use a coping saw, jeweler's saw or a fret saw) but that's also a benefit--when you cut around the formica pattern it won't catch the knife and nick.

Just a thought...dw


Tight Stitches...
DWFII--Member HCC