Looking for...

[sharon raymond]

I have a supply of those Kaufmann toe boxes, would send out a sample - even two! - to anyone interested.

[cmw]

I am almost sure all the orthopedic shoe suppliers have those materials. They are a standard here in europe. As far as I know they are a german product. I tried two layers of the toe box material in an experiment the other day. It was stiffer but not rock hard. You should also be able to get it in large rolls.

BTW, you can use a counter top oven to heat the two box mat. 5 min. is more than enough to get it soft, that way it pulls over with out wrinkles. it burns a little! The heat from the material activated the glue on the liner.

Is the heel stiffener also heat activated and softene? We always use leather on the heel.

There is something else. The suppliers should also have some materials that you heat up and press on to the last. Once cool it retains the shape. The only problem is that it does not breath. not always smart for an insole.

hope it helps.
CW

[Mick Nesseim]

Jake /Michelle
Jake you are a saddlemaker and this discussion on synthetic leather rang a bell.
In the last Tack and Togs magazine the Partrade company had a ad for a barrell racing saddle made out of Duraleather a composite synthetic material more durable than leather with low maintenance. Jake have you ever heard of this in the saddle trade. I am going to do more looking and see what I can find out about this.
I believe that most partrade stuff is made off shore but am not sure about the saddle they are selling. If this is strong enough to use in a saddle it should work for shoes. I will let you know if I find out any more on the Duraleather.
Mick

[jake]

Mick,

Good to hear from you! Hope all is well.

Personally, I feel as strong about synthetics in saddlery as D.W. does about celastic in bootmaking. I don't even have any nylon latigos or off billets in the shop. So....when I see an add or article about synthetic materials, I just keep turning the pages. Sorry!

By the way, hope to see you at the next AGM. Take care!

[dw]

Jake, Mick,

Ooh....I've been avoiding that discussion like the plague, but hang a bunch of grapes in front of my nose, why don'tch?! And call me by name to boot!

I have no problem whatever with "alternative" materials for making boots and shoes...as long as they are natural fibers, etc. I don't hold with synthetic leathers or vinyls or naugahyde or any of that. Down deep, I wish we could get away from all synthetics...including glues, celastic, and syntans. They're far more destructive of the environment than all the feed lots and all the tanneries in the world. For every slab of synthetic leather produced, gallons of petro-chemical based effluent are flushed into the rivers and oceans. Toxic smoke is pumped into the atmosphere and, downwind, fish, forests, and foxes die.

I'm not a Luddite and freely admit that I use and enjoy products that are wholly dependent upon synthetics...like this one right in front of me. But I've always believed that "good" should never yield to "terrible." Or even to "fast and easy." Leather itself, is the gold standard for every application that traditionally has depended upon it. IMNSHO, there's no compelling reason to switch. Ever.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

[Ryan]

anyone know of anyone who will make boots from my own alligator hides that are already tanned? i'm a local fisherman looking for a bootmaker...

[Georgene McKim]

Sharon,
Please send me a toe box sample. Email me at mail{pres@georgene.net,pres@georgene.net} for address. Your email address is not clickable for me to email you.

Thank you,

Georgene

[Georgene McKim]

Sharon,
oops, slip of the typo there. Only one pres@georgene.net in my email address.

Georgene

[rvallee]

Hi all,
I am looking for advice. I have begun adding leather working tools to my product line to compliment the waxed thread I currently manufacture. I was not sure where to start so I brought in some basic tools from CS Osborne Co.
mainly because I did not know of any other tool manufacturers.
Can anyone offer advice concerning which tools are best, worst, "hard to get" etc..
Any of your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Rusty

[Mick Nesseim]

Jake/DW
No, I am in full agreement with you guys about using only leather. I repair a lot of saddles and I do not replace with nylon latigos or billets. I wont even reline a saddle with artificial sheep. And that is the norm on almost all saddles. I did call Partrade today for some information and they did not have any body there who could answer any questions on the Duraleather. But the saddles are made off shore.
Frank
I am not interested in using synthetic leather in what I make. The topic just peeked my interest and was wondering what was out there.
Thank-you for the information on the synthetics from Europe I know that there are some on the colloqy who can use the information.
Most of what I make are Civil War bootees and shoes and the full wellington boots for reenactors. Here is my web page www.mjnboot.com
Thank-all for the information and thanks for the forum.
Mick Nesseim

[dw]

Mick,

Hey...no thanks necessary. I know I'm preaching (and beg your indulgence)...but it's *your* forum. Keep posting, that's the best thanks of all.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

[dw]

Rusty,

A line of really good curved sewing awls would be a blessing. And would compliment your thread.

Beyond that and short of tooling up to manufacture the really hard to find tools, I almost think it's a lost cause. I am probably not familiar with every tool company in the world but I don't know of anyone making (maybe I should say *manufacuring*) hand tools in the US that I put any stock in. Even most (not all) of the Osborne tools are aimed more at saddlers than shoemakers and what shoemaking tools they offer (including sewing awls) leave a lot to be desired.

The best hand tools made in the last fifty years (aside from custom jobs) were manufactured overseas--by Barnsley and some German firms. Barnsley is recently defunct and who knows the names of the German companies? That said, some good tools can still be had through Goetz in Germany. If you could arrange to be a limited rep, you'd be the guy I'd send my students to.

That doesn't help much, Rusty, I know, and I apologize for that...but it's a sad state of affairs with regards to new tools. Antiques are virtually the only real alternative.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

[jake]

Rusty,

I sent you a personal "Welcome" email, but let me "Welcome" you publicly. We sure do appreciate your eagerness to help. Your company's efforts toward assisting the "Small Shop" has been a heaven sent blessing. Thanks!

I would have to piggy-back D.W.'s comments. I tried some of the Osborne awls you handle.....pitiful, but no reflection on you of course.

Personally, if you could become a rep for Goetz, it would make my day! They still acquire and handle some hand tools that are hard to find.

Once again, and I know I'm speaking for a lot of people, we acknowledge your aspiration and are appreciative for your endeavor.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

[jake]

Rusty,

Forgot to mention one important bit of information.

George Barnsley & Sons out of Sheffield England, who are now closed, use to carry a line of curved sewing awls, inseaming awls, and "oval" pegging awls that were exceptionally well made. They were "King" brand, at least that's what was stamped on the shank of the items.

Hope this helps.

[mic]

Well, this is embarrassing. I was just scanning my email account’s “bulk” (i.e. spam) folder & hit the “delete all” button just as I spotted an email with the subject line “Lorica,” for which I have been trying for days to find distributors in the States. The email is now in that big electron bin in the sky, so if it was from anyone here, please send it again & I will look for it more closely. Or, it may have been from Lorica Sud in Italy, so I will plead “oops” to them as well.

--Michelle

[erickgeer]

I received a catalog from Woodware Repetitions, Ltd. yesterday.

Was anyone else able to contact them? I never got an e-mail from Colin Barnsley. There are a few tools in there that I know are desirable for myself, but if anyone has seen this, how does it compare? I don't see any inseaming or pegging awls.
I'm still trying to get a Goetz catalog, I've left information at a few places, so the waiting is on!

Erick

[Rusty Vallee]

Hi

Thanks for your honest responses. When I first received my first shipment from Osborne I was surprised at the awls in particular. I do like many of their hand tools and punches but the awls were different than the awls I have seen over the years. I have many older awls in my factory that I keep in my office. I do not know who made them but they are wrapped in waxed paper from England (maybe John James?)
I did some internet searches for the leads you all mentioned but didn't find anything. Anymore info on Goetz would be appreciated.
It is difficult when you are not "in the know"
For instance, several months ago I wanted to contact "wiss" for clips and scissors. I spent days searching before I discovered that they were made by Cooper Tools.

Michelle, Is "Lorica" a type of leather? I have a leather supplier in the building next to my factory and would like to be of assistance if possible.

Rusty

[mekhaus]

I apologize if this is widely known, but given
recent posts it seemed that the Götz (Goetz)
website with contact information might not be
well known.

http://www.goetz-service.com/

Of course, the site is in German. By the way,
let me introduce myself, my name is Michael Ekhaus. Thanks for having this colloquy.

[rvallee]

Thank you Mike,
I am new to this and I did not know. I'm sure many others did though.
I translated the page to english, although still choppy.
I contacted Goetz and received a response 20 minutes later.
Rusty

[mic]

Rusty wrote:
------------------------------------------------
Michelle, Is "Lorica" a type of leather? I have a leather supplier in the building next to my factory and would like to be of assistance if possible.
------------------------------------------------

Hi Rusty,
Thanks for the offer. Lorica is a synthetic material and, from all that I've heard, the closest thing to real leather outside of a cow. I have been looking around for non-animal materials to make shoes, because I personally try to avoid using animal products when possible (though I do understand the general preference for and advantages of leather).

I don't know that Lorica is the way to go, because 1) I fully agree with DW's concerns about industrial pollution from the manufacturing of synthetics and 2) it's proven difficult so far to locate. I'm going to keep trying to find some, but in the meantime, I think I'll explore natural woven fabrics, as has also been suggested here on the forum.

--Michelle

[erickgeer]

Michelle,
I don't know if this will be of interest to you, and it might not be that usefull because I don't have contact info for this.

I was reading in either a fashion or accessories periodical, and found an article on a person (I think in Italy) who proccesses hides from animals that have died naturaly. I can try to find the article for you, if this is of interest.

Erick

[mic]

Hi Erick,

Wow, there's an interesting job. I wonder what qualifies as "natural causes"? Believe it or not, I've actually handled enough dead animals that have died from causes other than direct slaughter (in my career as a wildlife ecologist) to know how unpleasant it can be, and I'm not particularly squeamish.

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'd really rather avoid animal products all together.

--Michelle

[dw]

Michelle,

What are you thinking of doing for an insole and outsole? Sounds like you haven't gotten that far yet, but someone else may have some suggestions.

You can certainly rely on a cement construction--although there again you're gonna run into the "synthetics" question--and that might make a choice of insole material a little easier (needled wool felt?) but I can't for the life of me think of any substance short of wood (clogs) that will be both natural and long wearing. Anyway, I raise the question out of curiosity and to just to elicit some input from you and others who might have some ideas in this regard.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com

"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."

[mic]

You're right, DW, I haven't gotten very far with all the material issues, but I am currently experimenting with a ground cork/Barge cement insole a la Birkenstocks (with a fabric liner). For outsoles, yes, I imagine I'll go with synthetic rubber, I just don't see that there is any other choice. I mean, yes, there is natural rubber and things like plantation crepe, but it is my assumption that those choices would be either bad for floors (i.e., marking) or such cat hair magnets that I would be wearing cat hair felt soles by week's end.

Hmm, cat hair felt shoes, there's an idea...but I digress.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has input, but I wasn't expecting to go totally natural with my shoemaking efforts. My main goal is to avoid using critter parts.

--Michelle

[petemonahan]

Hello All!

Just "looking for" some information on hobnails and their use in historical footwear. I have and use both large hobs - square,pyramidalheads about 1/3" on a side - and smaller, conical items I've been told are known as "Hungarian nails".

I know that the square hobs were commonly used in Britain and North America in military boots from at least 1830-1840 on but I'm hoping to find out when/where the others were used and whether or not smaller nails might have been used in earlier periods. I'd welcome both written sources and personal opinions from you learned gentlemen. Thanks!

Peter Monahan