The Crispin Colloquy

Eck,

What kind of crepe are you talking about? Natural plantation crepe or the more modern stuff--petro-crepe?

I built a pair of saddle shoes this past year on which I put plantation crepe. I full welted it, added a 6 iron leather midsole, a 12-14 iron layer of plantation crepe and then sewed all layers. The photos are probably in the Gallery archives not too far back or just do a keyword search for "saddle shoes."

Using the synthetic, petro-chemical crepe, would be a similar process except that the crepe would be cemented directly to the midsole...which would be sewn to the welt. Trying to sew petro-chemical crepe is kind of self defeating and unnecessary as the cement will bond it to the midsole pretty well. (I did not trust the cement alone on the saddle shoes.)

That's a common and standard way of attaching petro-crepe and it allows the sole to be replaced without disturbing the welt or the shoe itself.

Hope it helps...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Eckart,
I've been making welted boots and using a full leather outsole (pegged to insole, stitched to welt) as my midsole. The stitches on the bottom of the midsole are hidden/ protected by the leather and it makes for a very easy resole. I've used two different Vibram soles (Morflex and Gumlite) as well as a Vibram sheet goods for an outsole. The glue only bond to the midsole seems to be more than adequate, with two coats of all-purpose Barge or Duall. The boots I wear daily have been through three resoles with no delamination issues. The method I'm using is definitely non-traditional and looks it, but I've only been concerned with functionality, durability, and comfort to walk in.
I think the construction of a welted boot has superior durability and ability to be repaired, so far I haven't had issues with gluing on synthetic soles......I've also only been at this for two years.
J.

DW, JJ ,
Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try and let you know!
Another question regarding fidleback and bevelled waists. Bakers offer 8/9/and 10/11 iron sole bends. Which of the two would be most suitable to make the above two waists?
Cheers
Eck

Here is my method for bevelled waist. Hope you can use it.
This is the first part - preparing the welt.


(Message edited by Marcell on January 18, 2009)

Marcell,

If this is the beginning of a step-by-step photo tutorial, I'm really and truly looking forward to it...I especially want to see how you go about stitching the outsole through the waist and more specifically how you channel the outsole in the waist.

And thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to show us how you do it. I have maybe enough experience to muddle through but a little guidance is always welcome.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

I can, but I hope you won't be disappointed - the technique is simple: I make a stitching channel and stitch the welt to the sole. Nothing special.

Here is the second part of my bevelled waist tutorial.
Maybe some member has some other methods - please post! (I post in more post, beceuse sometimes doesn't work correctly, and as I send many pictures, I don't want to loose them)

2.
So, we skived the welt until the balls, we do the same with the sole:


and prepare the filler (?) llike this: a piece of welt is OK.

Then you attach the sole - I think it is easy, if you prepared correctly. If you left the sole a bit more thick - the fiddleback won't be that nice (and maybe won't be attached correctly)


My version looks like this:

Then cut (and grind - as you like) the sole more or less to the right form. You can leave 1-2 mm around. It will be deformed a bit because of the stitching. so you don't need to be so exact.

First I push down the shank area with a bone knive.

Cutting the stitching channel - try to cut approx. the 60% of the stickness of the sole (I really mean it - more is not strong enough, less will not hide the stitches. Practice, practice..)
This is the hardest part I think - especially the JR leather sole, what I use. The good trick: wet the sole many times - I do it at least 3-5 times.

Then make the place for the thread. I don't know the name of this tool, but you can make it easily. (if you don't have - make one. Do not try to make stitching channel without using this tool)


(Message edited by Marcell on January 19, 2009)

Then the fun part comes - stitching. The correct positioning of the awl is a must. You have to come out exactly the deepest part of the channel - shows on the picture - if not - you won't be able to hide the stitches well.

Then the fun part comes - stitching. The correct positioning of the awl is a must. You have to come out exactly the deepest part of the channel - shows on the picture - if not - you won't be able to hide the stitches well.

And some more picture about the stitching. The shank area shouldn't be made with so small stitches.

The white stripe is protecting the upper from the awl marks. Very practical - this one is made for this purpose.

And a close-up:

We are almost ready...

Close the stitching channel, and start to make the beveled form from the sole. Some maker don't make this step - I do, because of some reason. I believe I can make more perfect result this way (or at least get the same result easier).


And this is the end of the second part. Hope you enjoyed.


Tomorrow we will continue from this point.

Marcell,
One word: WOW
Thanks for this!
Eck

Marcell,

OK, I'm with you to this point.

But let me ask you the million dollar question...what kind of cement/glue do you use to close the channel?

Whenever I do this...pretty much the way your doing it...and then I go to finish off the bottoms, the channel tends to open up a bit and then it is visible.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

There are some tricks to have perfect closed channel. Maybe I should have write into this tutorial:

1. Cut properly. Better a bit deeper, but the perfect is: 50-60%. An idea: before you start, sharp you knife, and try it on a piece of sole (the SAME you used on the shoe)

2. scrapring is very important - that makes place for the thread. If there is no place - the channel cannot be closed perfectly.

3. when you finished the stitching, push back the wet "wall" you have - this way it will dry to the good form and you won't have to fight with it dry.

4. hammer a bit the sole edge and push inside! That push back the deformed sole to its place, so it will close like a door: open-close. No gap.

5. Wait until it ALMOST dry. You don't have to wait until it 100% dry. Surprisingly it gives a better result, when it isn't dry out totally.

And answering your question: I use normal glue - the same I use for attaching the sole. (but you can make the same result with Hirschkleber too).

I almost forget: the stitches must be really tight. But it shouldn't be a problem for you..

(Message edited by Marcell on January 19, 2009)

Marcell,

I say WOW too! This is very helpful to me.

I had come to the conclusion that I needed a channel scraper tool and now you confirm this.

I have a mental idea what it should look like, but can you show a close up of the tip of the scraper tool?

I will make a photo. Anyway I promised to post some close-up pictures of some tools. Scraper is a very easy thing to make.

marcell,

Yeah, I think the channel/thread scraper is the missing piece of the equation for me, as well.

Thanks for a really great tutorial...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

And the final part of my tutorial.

I mentioned that some maker don't make the bevelled waist with the glass - I do.


If you want to make the fidlleback . it should look something like this:


The process can be different. I would say, until you don't have so much practice, maybe it is better to make the fiddleback before the heel building.

Do not cut off do much from the waist area - you will need that to fold in!

Next steps:

paint, wax and iron. For the waist you need a special one.

This is that tool. I have plenty of them actually, but I only can use this one properly. It is not that easy to use as it seems - it has to be hot (but not too hot), waxed correctly (=much), and kept very precisiously. In this stage you can ruin your whole work with a wrong, uncontrolled movement.