The Crispin Colloquy

OK guys,

I need a little input, regarding that flower I showed earlier. I'm going to put it on the front leg panels of this next pair of boots. I've played with a single layer of leather, cutting it out on my sewing machine, and you've mentioned one could glue several layers together and "cut" them out at the same time.

Here's my question, I want these to mirror each other, with the stem starting on the medial side of the tongues and the flower finising up on the lateral side. I'd have to rubber cement the flesh sides together for this to come out right when I cut it out. Right? How does that look on the edges of the underside piece?

I'll go ahead and do a test for myself, I just thought I'd open the conversation again. Lisa, What do you do about this?

PK

Paul,

I've never tried what you're proposing. My first inclination would probably be to cut two different patterns rather than trying to cut them mirrored. If they aren't exactly the same it won't make any difference because they aren't exactly the same...if you see what I mean. It's more work in the short run but maybe better results.

If I was gonna try to cut them mirrored, I'd try to cement the grain sides together. Less chance of problems trying to separate the pieces. Be sure to back the underside of the "stack" with a piece of cardboard or something , though so you don't get any rough cuts.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Well, I'm making my first pair of shoes in 1 1/2 years. I'd been using a pair that I inherited from my late father-in-law, and they are finally getting to the point where they no longer keep out the sand and rain.
I am making a work boot loosely patterned after the pair of combat boots I wore out 1 1/2 years ago. The uppers are hand sewn where they needed sewing, are rivited where I could get away with it and not an example of the most thorough work. I needed to get something on my feet.
I used a 4-5 oz split purchased from the former Suncook Tannery during their last liquidation days that lasted as if it were cast iron. Did I hear someone once say that using the correct materials makes all the difference?
They are lasted on the Ideal lasts acquired from the dead shoe factory in Fitchburg, Mass (a dress shoe last) and are starting to look like an actual work boot. They are unlined, as I never came close to mastering shoe lining and will have no eyeletts, as I have none that are close to the correct size.
I will use a veg toe box and did use a veg heel counter, reenforced on the inside with a cemented piece of chrome finished belly. It ought to support my heel, even though it looks ugly on the inside. I haven't pulled the last yet, so haven't been able to try them on, but they LOOK as if they'll work if I keep 'em waterproofed. They will be faire stitched, which should aid a bit in the waterproofing of them at the sole. NOt sure what I will use as a finish sole yet - I'm wavering between the gumlite and the lugg. Quite a difference between them, but I can't decide whether I need the traction or whether I need to not track dirt onto the floor. It will also change the heel height, which will be something I will have to deal with when I decide.
They otta look pretty darned good on my feet, and should function as they were intended - I'll keep you posted as I think of it.

Bruce

Good morning leather friends,

Here is my latest challenge.
This inlay is the US Marine Corp emblem. Lots of tiny pieces! I haven't done any this small before.

/image{USMC 1}

Things I learned:
*Stretchy kid is not a good inlay material, fro obvious reasons.
*I think a smaller needle and thread might have made a difference.
*I eventually backed the foot presure off considerably, that helped, as did loosening the tension on the top thread some.

Lots of room for improvement on the next ones. This was a practice piece. It looks as good as it does because of Jakes inlay lesson above. Thanks Jake!

Now back to sharpening my Ron's French Skiver some more! Boy, that sure makes a difference!

I'd be very interested in comments and criticisms. Thank you.

PK

Dang!

Paul,

You're a brave man, I hate that kind of fussy work...that's why most of my stuff is silhouettes
or "stencil" work. I love filigrees. I also love detailed and multicoloured inlays but I don't think you can get paid for doing it right.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

DW,

Thank you for the input. I get what you mean about the time it takes. I'm on my second day with these.

I'm gonna try another before I have a go at the real ones. I just realized my needle was turned around. A good excuse to back off and try a different approach.

PK

Paul,
You should get a Purple Heart for even trying that one. Of course the easiest way to get a job like that done, is to give it to someone else!

I've thought a bit on doing some fine stuff, but I haven't got it nutted out in my head yet. Seeing what you've done helps too ... Maybe when I get my Ron's skiver

What's the overall diameter of the crest Paul, - say across the gold?

The experience you get from even doing the practice pieces is invaluable and certainly not a waste of time.
I think those boots will look great when you get them finished.

BTW I've just had a look at the link to the Kinky Boots site, thanks for that.

More power to y'awl
T.

Tom,

Yeah, It's a hard one, alright! The gold is 4.25" and the red is 3" diameter.

I like doing practice pieces like this, though. I've really not been trained other than what's available online here, so it works as lesson for me. I appreciate the comments that become instruction. The real trick seems to be "noodeling' it out!

You'll love the Rons Skiver. What a difference it makes. I'm learning the leather makes a difference too. I'm in 'redo mode" until I get two I like well enough.

PK

Paul' I've been thinking,

If that gold is all you have, why not try getting some of that stuff dress makers use for stiffening, and iron it to the back of the kid ( it has an adhesive built into it).

If you get the right stuff - like really thin, that should stop the stretching and make cutting out easier too.

Might be worth a try, it's not very expensive.

More power to y'awl.
T.

Tom,

I appreciate that you were thinking. Always a good thing.

And I appreciate the approach to innovate. I often find I have to. A good skill to have, isn't it?

But, I've pulled off of the job right now. I've ordered a piece of gold metalic roo from Peter Hardtke. It'll be here Monday, (he said, with fingers crossed). This is my lesson for not ordering, and being certain of having, all my materials well enough in advance. Think of me as a case in point.

Meanwhile, there's another pair that need similar attention. I won't be idle.

Thanks again.

Back to the bench,

PK

When using a sewing machine for sewing uppers, how do you end a line of stitching so it doesn't unravel? Do you just back up over a stitch or two, or cement the threads on the underside?

Jenny

Despite my strong misgivings as to what damage it might do to various components on a sewing machine and the fact that it will stretch, I use nylon thread. Nothing else has the sheen and the vibrancy of colour except perhaps silk. Dacron doesn't even come close to being manufactured in as many colours(and the sheen is not there) and silk is nearly impossible to find in a machine twist.

Nylon may be pulled through to the back side, clipped short...I mean one-sixteenth of an inch...and touched with a lit match. At which point the molten nylon is flattened with the fingertip.

It's ugly--the flattened blob of melted nylon is usually dark brown (cutting the ends short is the best remedy). But it holds better than cement, it's flatter than a knot, and less unsightly on the outide than an overstitch.

Others may do this differently and your milage may vary...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

I don't have years of experience like others but I pull the nylon thread to the backside like previously mentioned and then I use a "Perfect End Thread Burner" (Google it) to melt the thread and force it down flat around the hole and smear it around to anchor it. Leaves no little bead and you don't have to use your thumbnail either.

I'm going to try one of those "Coldheat" soldering irons eventually but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Thanks.... DW, isn't it a good thing that nylon thread stretches a little, so if the shoe/boot stretches a little to conform to the foot, the thread stretches with the leather?

For anyone in Chicago, Caravan Beads on Lincoln Ave. carries the Perfect End Thread Burner, I just found out...

Jenny

Thomas,
A cold heat soldering iron won't work on thread. The tip of the iron has to be touched on an electicaly conductive material to work.
Shane

Hello All,

I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to give an online sewing 101 lesson. My stitches are looking pretty good on top but I get a mess on the bottom stitch. I have adjusted the top thread tension and I was able to improve it but I have not completely been able to eliminate the looseness in the bottom stitch.

If someone could make some recommendations on needle sizes and thread I think that might help some. It might very well be the machine because it is an old Singer home machine not industrial. I am rebuilding a 31-15 for future use. I would love to blame the equipment and not the lack of talent or experience.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,

It's all a guess online like this.

But I'll be first to ask the obvious. How's you bobbin tension? Is the thread behind the spring properly? For tension I was always told, to pull on it, and if it started to unwind just before it stretched, it was good. Maybe that would help.

I've also had a "nest" on the back, with some machines, when I don't hold both threads, top and bobbin, when I'm starting to stitch.

These are probably too obvious to be the problem, but always worth mentioning.

I hope you get the help you need.

PK

Mark,

If Paul's suggestion doesn't fix your problem, then it might be the shells on the top tension that clamp the top thread aren't gripping the thread thght enough. This will result in the thread looping severely on the bottom because the thread take up arm has nothing to pull against.

It doesn't matter how tight you wind the tension screw in it won't fix it. You'll need a heavier beehive spring, or even put two light ones on.

More power to y'awl
T.

Tom,

Since this is not an industrial class machine that makes perfect sense.

Thanks,

Mark

Timing could be off too. I once sold a 31 class machine that I could never get to pull the lock up...cheap!...only to find out later that the timing (which I had ignorantly fussed with) was out of whack. Although my fussing ended up being expensive short term, in the long run it was a good (and cheap) lesson, as I learned how to time most any sewing machine.

It's a never-ending learning process, isn't it? Maybe that's half the reason we do it.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Let all God's children say Amen, brother Ddub.

Thanks DW,

I have always loved being a student. With that said there is definately a lot of love to be had for me in boot making.

The machine that I am currently using is a singer 99K which is a home model from 1956. I think that is part of the problem. I do have a 31-15 on its way that I am going to buy a new motor and table for. I think that will solve some of my problems.

I have not done anything with the timing and would not know how to adjust it. If you could provide me with a little information I might try that.

I did also have a question about the needle size and the correct thread that I sould be using. That may also help correct some of the issues.

Thanks for the help,

Mark

Mark,

I don't know that machine...I don't even know if it can be timed by the user---not all machines can be.

Timing on most sewing machines comes down to a simple formula: when the needle is at the lowest point in its stroke the point of the bobbin shuttle hook should just be even with the edge of the needle. Some machines will raise up just a little and pause, or even go down again before completing the stroke, to form a loop. When the loop is formed the point of the shuttle hook should be dead center to the needle and just above the eye of the needle. Some will just rise (no pause or reversal), again, a loop will form and again the hook should be dead center and just a tiny bit above the eye of the needle.

Needles and thread...if the machine is engineered to handle leather or even heavy cloth...then, within reason, needle size by itself does not matter. What matters is the relationship of needle to thread. If a free needle can be threaded and will slide readily from one end to the other of a...say, 12"... section of thread, the needle and thread are compatible. If it will not, the thread size is too large for the needle size. This will cause problems with drawing the lock up but more often you will get snags and other more serious problems.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Need sewing advice...I just sewed the back seam together on two quarters on my sewing machine for the first time. On my fitter shoes I butted the leather together and handstitched it, so didn't encounter the problem I am currently having.

How do you flatten the seam on the inside? I sewed about 1/8" in from the edge. On the Wilson Gracey tape it says to trim the allowance to about 1/16" and then flatten it on the inside. I am used to sewing clothes, and open the seam allowance out. This seems impossible to do with leather. Do you just trim the seam close to the stitching and then pound the allowance flat on the inside without opening the allowances out?

Or should I have skived the back edge of the quarters thinner before stitching, and then stitched through the thinned out leather, so the seam wouldn't be so bulky? Just can't figure out what to do with this big lump down the inside of the seam!

Jenny