The Crispin Colloquy

Tasteful Ebay Alert!

It's not every day that any shoe-related stuff from the US 1876 Centennial Exposition pops up--especially dated lasts. This thing realy oughta be in a museum someplace, not on somebody's coffee table, but I thought you all might like to see it:

http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?RedirectEnter&partner=777701&loc=http% 3A%2F%2Fcgi%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI%2Edll%3FViewItem%26item%3D3745852182%2 6category%3D12%26ssPageName%3DADME%3AB%3AEF%3AUS%3A1

Those are great, hope they go to a good home.

Do you know anything about the shape of that last? I have a couple of single lasts that I'm pretty sure are the same form as that - they are in storage so I can't tell if they are the same maker though. Was this a common shape for that time?

Erick

Erick,

From the crummy photos it's hard to say much. The last looks pretty "bog standard" for a mid-late 19thc. scoop block boot last, broad square toe, etc. I thought the "V" cut at the toe-end of the block was nice--that's the earlier technique for securing that end, prior to the embedded nail, and the later post or dowel coming up from the body of the last to keep the block from slipping from side to side. I wish the fancy brass plate was more visible--it looked very cool, but obviously exhibition work/not for use.

I hope somebody [Pablo?] who's tracking 19thc. lastmakers records the maker's name at least.

It's not everyday we see a dated one, and *anything* from the Centennial Exposition is very rare.

What does "bog " mean?
Mine do not have the V-cut scoop.
Gotta go

Erick

Erick,

Bog standard is a British slang term for boring, common, nothing special

re: "bog-standard" The OED suggests that it's derived from a mishearing of the term "box-standard", as in standard, straight out of the box.

Marc

I have a new question about lasts. I've been mostly offlne for a bit.
Thankyou to those that gave me some last pointers for my student.

Anyway, my question is this: From an existing last - is there an accurate way to figure out the proper toespring, or would one just eyball it?

Thanks,
Erick

This should have been posted here, Sorry for the double post.

I have been looking into tools for making last models and I am looking
for clarification about a "last vise."

I have run accross mentions of the "last vise" or a "last-making
vise," but without pictures. Does anyone know if a "pattern-makers or
gun-stock carving vise" is similar, or the same thing?

Salaman has a depressingly short section on Last Making, with no
pictures. He mentions a "post-vise" in the tools list, but all of the
post-vises I've found have been heavy things for doing metalworking.

Suggestions are welcome, if anyone wants to share their solutions for
carving lasts.

Thanks,
Erick Geer Wilcox

Golding, Frank Yeats. Boots and Shoes, their Making, Manufacture, and Selling (1939, vol.1) and Adrian, Karl C. American last making : procedures, scale comparisons, sizing and grading information,... Arlington, MA: Shoe Trades Pub, 1911. have stuff on last making.

Marc

Marc,
Thank you for the references, but I don't have access to a copy of that Golding Volume.
The adrien book mentions a Last-Vise in the tools list, but does not include any pictures.

Here is a picture of the Patternmakers Vise:


Has anyone seen this type of device within the context of footwear?

Erick

Erick
Do you have The George Koleff book on last making ?
He also has a Video that goes along with the book We have them both in stock. You can contact me at Larry@walrusshoe.com Both are a pretty through text on lastmaking. Hope that helps.

Larry Waller
www.walrusshoe.com

Thank you Larry,
I'll contact you soon, not enough minutes in the day. I have the Book, but I haven't looked at the video. Does he go into greater detail in the video?

I'm fishing here, I thought I read posts that some people made their own lasts. I just want to know what makes a last-Vise a Last-Vice. I figure if it's mentioned, it's important. I've gotten away with using a regular vice, but it's limiting as to the angles and placement.

Marc,
Does Volume I of Golding deal specificaly with Lasts? At the moment anyway, there doesn't seem to be any listings for that volume.

Erick

Erick,

The Colloquy pix are slow-loading tonight, so I didn't see the picture you posted, but I'll add this: from Lobb's shop in London, to Bill Tippit's 'The Last Word' shop in MO, lastmakers and last model-makers use a tall wooden vise--"post-vice" perhaps?--you stand up to work on. The jaws are padded with felt to hold the lasts without marring its surface. Maybe Bill Tippit can fill us in on more details.

Erik,
I don't recall Koleff using a vise in the video. He used a hatchet, a chisel, and the home-brew sander that he described assembling in the book.

It would be great reading what Bill would have to say on lastmaking!

Steve

Erik:
Al Saguto is correct. When I make my maple lasts, I use the same type of vise. It allows me to hold the last in many different angles to do the final shaping.

JP

To all:

I don't have my vice any more (but MAN do I wish I did!). However, my good friends at JV in their St. Louis model shop probably won't mind if I drop by today and snap a picture. I've got some errands to run anyway so I'll just detour down in their direction. I'll post a picture or two tonight if they give me the OK to flutter my shutter.

Bill

Bill,
That would be very cool.
Is the St. Louis shop where they do the development from scratch versus the digitizing and copying in Arkansas?

Erick

Erik:
Here is a picture of my last vise. It has felt on the clamps. It is just behind the man holding the lasts.

Golding (1934) vol. 1 contains "Pattern Cutting and Making" by Gordon Glanville, and "The Making of Lasts" by Beresford Worswick. He describes a Lastmakers Vice among several other tools (bench, knife, etc.)

p.202-4

"To hold the work when sawing or rasping, etc., use is made of the last-makers vice. This is attached securely to the bench, and in such a position as not to interfere with knifing. The vice consists of four main parts: (1) The long piece which is fixed to the bench, (2) the short piece which is moved by the screw, (3) the runner on which the short piece moves and (4) the adjusting screw for the width of the jaws.The diagram (fig.14) shows the various elevations and plan of the vice and suitable dimensions.

"When using the vice, the long and short pieces must be approximately parallel, and to prevent slipping of the free end of the short piece, wooden stops are placed on the runner between the two upright pieces. The free end of the short piece has a rectangular groove which fits over the breadth of the runner. The groove is wedge shaped at the top as shown in the line ab in the diagram. The object of this is that when the screw is released the action of gravity causes the short piece to fall outwards and, hence, automatically follow the action of the screw.

"It is obvious that the vice should be made from wood that lis a little softer than the wood used for lasts. This prevents bruising the lasts when clamped into the vice. To increase further the "softness" of the jaws, they can be roughed with a rasp and chalked. An ideal wood for such a vice is limewood, but owing to its scarcity birch is often used.

"The design of the jaws is another important feature. They are not square, but are curved to taper off at the top (see diagram). The type of these curves depends largely on individual ideas, but the object is to give a minimum of contact with the last. Hence, whilst giving a firm hold, the jaws do not tend to damage the last as sharp edged jaws would most certainly do."


This is more or less what fig. 14 shows, but with colored lines instead of dotted.

marc

Marc,
Thank you for transcribing that, and the diagram. I will have to stew over that one for a while.

Erick

Erick:

What type of wood are you using for your lastmaking? Where are you sourcing it?

Lance

Lance,
I'm just learning. I use Laminated boards to get the thickness I need. Because I have limited tools to work with, I used Poplar wood to make a model, as it is softer and easier to work with. J&V digitized it, which (from what I understand) delivers less Psi to the last, lessening the potential damage to the model.
When I started that project, I didn't know about plating to protect the feather edge from breaking down.

I was eventualy going to ask if anyone has an opinion on wood to use in liu of proper hardwood blanks - might as well be now

Erick

Erick:
To protect the edge of the model, there is modeling tacks. You need to file the edge of the tacks to match the edge of the model.

JP,
Is this a particular type of tack? I'm not really visualizing this, are they perpendicular to the bottom, or diagonal from the feather?

I learned about plating from reading "American Last Making" - it's good to know that there are alternatives.

Erick

Erick:
The tacks have square heads. You need to brake the feather edge a little and then start tacking, then file the feather edge square. I will show you some time when you come.

JP