The Crispin Colloquy

homeboy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:49 pm wrote:The "Man" that makes the forum "What" it is.....My mentor, my Master, but most importantly, my Good Friend! D.W. Frommer, II

An extraordinary pair of apron derbys in a waxy calf made by Nicholas Templeman--a former Lobbs of London employee now out on his own.

So many professional touches here, from the braided stitching on the apron to the square waist/heel junction. click on the photo to see a better view.

Bottom of the another apron derby by the same maker

I have move the discussion on cutting welt here

Here's a pair of shoes I had fun making.

French calf yellow and blue...and no it is not for University of Michigan.
Terry

tjburr » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:25 pm wrote:Here's a pair of shoes I had fun making.

French calf yellow and blue...and no it is not for University of Michigan.


Terry

Terry,

Nice.

I really love saddle shoes. I had a pair of Hanovers in black and burgundy shell when I was a teenager. One of my all time favorites.

Several questions for you...

I don't see a midsole. Is there one or are these welt stitched through the rubber outsoles?

And for goodness sake, where in the world did you get blue and yellow French calf?

DW,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

As to the midsole
I was trying something new on these shoes since they were for me. I basically used a rand around the fore part and whipstitched the rand and upper to the insole. I did this since I only had poor quality insoling on hand and was just playing around with new leather and a different pattern. It worked, but I really just should have waited to get some insoling in or welted them with the extra string tied in as shown elsewhere in this forum. I have decided I do not like a glued on rubber sole without a welt so I was trying this in place of a welt. And that answers the second part of the question, I glued on the sole since I do not have a sewing machine to sew on the sole and have not had much luck trying to had stitch a rubber sole on.

The leather
What took me a while to respond on this was I was attempting to find the exact tannery for the leather. I purchased the leather from Greg Carmack (254-848-2078) here in Texas. He is the representative for a french tannery. I at one time had the tannery name written down but for all my looking I could not find it. The leather was lovely to work with and as you can tell there are some colors available.

Terry

Terry,

Thanks. Is the French calf "struck through?"

I must apologize, I was getting my hides mixed up. I finally found the tannery info I wanted. These hides were from Greg but were a Skotan Calf sides, fully struck through. I believe these are from (http://www.skotan.com.pl/index.php?strona=13&jezyk=2) but I am not 100% sure. I have also used the Annonay french calf from Greg to make a pair of cowboy boots. It also was a nice leather to work the feedback I relieved from the wearer is it "shines up incredibly easy and is very easy to maintain", but is not struck through. The french calf comes in browns, black and tan if I remember correctly (I have a dark brown for the boots) I believe this is from the Annonay tannery (http://www.tannerie-annonay.fr/).

If you desire I can send you some cuttings from the hides I have or you can order cuttings from Greg. Their is another representative in the US in CT but I do not know much about them (203-263-5046) and go to Greg since I drive within 15 miles of his shop from time to time.

Terry

Terry, Well I like the Skotan...at least from this distance.

I know of the Annonay source in CT and have ordered from her. She's easy to work with. And aside from the not-being-struck-through bit, I like it. Both Christophe and Jake made their dress shoes of it.

Thanks...

My latest project, oxfords in black calf with crocodile inserts.

I used some - I believe - unconventional methods on these shoes and put some pictures on http://shoes.alexanderleeb.com

Alexander,

Nice looking shoes.

FWIW, I have been making "shaped" topline bead for ages...There are some photos here somewhere on the forum that detail my approach. Goes to show great minds think alike.

dw » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:34 am wrote:Alexander,

Nice looking shoes.

FWIW, I have been making "shaped" topline bead for ages...There are some photos here somewhere on the forum that detail my approach. Goes to show great minds think alike.

Thanks, DW
LOL...looks like I could have saved myself some brain cells instead of reinventing the wheel all over again

Herr_Leeb » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:51 am wrote: Thanks, DW
LOL...looks like I could have saved myself some brain cells instead of reinventing the wheel all over again

You might want to look here for a similar technique that has become a mainstay for me...just because I'm a "control freak."

Beautiful, clean work DW...
specially like the idea with the scotch tape

Followed your link too, DW. Love the attention to detail
And Alexander, nice job.
Cheers
Duncan

dmcharg » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:47 am wrote:Followed your link too, DW. Love the attention to detail
And Alexander, nice job.
Cheers
Duncan

Duncan,

I don't know if this discussion has any legs but I'm gonna respond in the linked thread.

These are trial shoes for 2 clients and the blue guys with the red are for me. The first 3 pictures were taken after I'd whip stitched the upper to the insole but before the outsole and heel were sewn on.








The upper leather is from Tarnjso Garveri / Zeller (Swiss tanner). All of the colored thread is Japanese silk.

My latest pair of Full Wellingtons, ala Opanka Hand Stitched sole construction, and a little personal flare. It can only get better.
Paul

Paul,

They're lovely boots.

I admire the craftsmanship immensely but with all due respect I hope I can ask...what is the fascination with the opanka construction? It seems like it would be very hard to repair and the toe, in particular seems vulnerable.

This is all so completely out of my league that I have to admit frankly, that it is a little bewildering.

What is the upper leather? I just finished a pair of full cuts from some of Loy's Spanish (?) calf. It was beautiful to work with and beautiful made up. Is the outsole a cement attachment?

Gorgeous, magnificent boots, a great showcase of excellent craftsmanship.
I am awestruck!
Do you have by any chance some photo documentation of the techniques you used that you are willing to share or are you going to let me agonize on how the hell you made them ?
Congratulations!!!!

Paul,

Now look at You!!! Something mighty different. Thanks for sharing! Merry Christmas to You & Yours!

DW,
Thank you for thinking they're lovely, and complementing the craftsmanship. But frankly, there are more than three things I would want to improve on the next pair.

The Fascination:
Back in the '70s, when I was working shoe repair in the Central Coast of California, I would occasionally see a "bota", worn by the farm workers in the area, that fascinated me. It was basically a Chelsea, made of all veg tanned leather where the upper was hand stitched all around "sole" like a moccasin. It had what we might call an outside heel, as the "sole" was molded around the back of the boot as well. We only ever did heel replacements on them, if memory serves.
I was fascinated by how it was so different than anything I'd ever seen before, but yet didn't like the look of the heel base stuck on there like it was. And there was no practical consideration to how the sole would be repaired/replaced. But I was indeed fascinated. Over the years I played with how to "make it better". but lacked shoe making skills to even figure out the lining assembly.
Then one of the shoemakers from Serbia, on the Facebook Shoemaking Forum, showed a video of the folk dance boots being made there and I recognized that sole construction, and the fascination grew. Sometime later, from Turkey, another shoemaker showed some beautifully classy looking men's dress shoes constructed as I have shown here, and I was hooked, and set out on my journey!
I came to find that this is called opanka hand stitched construction, and investigated the "how to". Marcel shared some images with me of the construction, answering questions about the liner and closing stitch, and I've been working it to learn what there is yet to be learned. The first attempt at the style was a mule, which I'm told is comfortable.
I have my own concerns about the toe. On the mules I used little round toe plates, but don't like the look. On these, I'm concerned the sole may be back too far by about 1/4". The replaceable sole guard is cemented to a thin midsole, which was stitched to the "sole".
'Out of your league' is strange way to say it, but it is indeed a style we do not see here in the US. I'm aware it's a construction that does not fall into the styles appreciated here in the historical context and interest of the HCC, but I remain interested in further exploration and improvement.
The leather is Torino calf from Garlin Neumann, which I was told would not be carried by them any longer. I'll check out the calf from Loy for the next pair.
I have images of my construction to share if there is interest, but I wouldn't know where it would best fit.
Paul

Paul,

Again, they are beautiful. And I for one applaud your curiosity and desire to expand your "range." (In a sense, it's why I like to explore Traditional techniques such as "channel stitching" even though a McKay machine does much the same thing)

As far as that goes, that's what the CC is all about--preserving Traditions and techniques...esp. little known techniques and fostering that search for knowledge and excellence. So yes, posting these boots here, as well as offering some insights into how it is done, is both appropriate and welcome.

A good place to make such a posting ...or begin the conversation...might be:

Board index » Open Forum » Techniques, Crans and Visualizations

and almost any one of the subforums therein. At first glance "Bottoming Techniques" might suit but there are others that are equally applicable.

Thank you. Please excuse me if I seemed to "bristle" or be defensive. Long story.
I will follow up with a couple of pertanent images in Bottoming Techniques.

Herr_Leeb and Jake, thank you for your encouraging comments.
paul