The Crispin Colloquy

Paul,
Your thoughts on one handed stitching are well taken. Would it be possible to hand stitch the side seams? If I really get into this boot making thing, I guess I will have to invest in a Singer 3100 Series or similar machine
Thanks Again!!

Folks,

This will have to be short for now.....

Metric thread sizes:

415 = 6 cord
346 = 5 cord
277 = 4 cord
207 = 3 cord

Adios

Randy,

First of all, Welcome! Glad to have ya!

Second, you dang well can handsew the sideseam. It's very near and dear to my heart, because that's the way I do it. First....it's traditional. Second, you CAN'T beat the stitch. And thirdly, you can match the vamp/counter cover junction darn near perfect EVERY time. The lockstitch doesn't come close to the handstitch, in my opinion. That's my two cents to the kitty.

By the way, I handsew the outsole too!

Jake,
Thanks for the welcome, the metric thread conversion information and lastly your thoughts on hand stitching

I was looking for a chart that matched needle sizes to thread weight. Even ventured into Home sewing.
Any one have a good memory or a link to the info?

Thanks!
Lisa

Lisa,

I've never seen a chart per se, but if you are referring to "eyed" needles, here's a rule of thumb that works every time:

String your needle on a short (12" - 15") piece of thread. Let go of the needle and raise one end of the thread. The needle should slide easily from one end to the other. If it doesn't, the thread is too heavy for the needle (or the needle is too small for the thread). Of course the needle could be too large for the thread and you'll still get an easy slide, but no one wants to use any heavier a needle than they absolutely have to. So, I doubt that's a real problem.

Hope this helps...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

There are charts, DW; usually they are offered as a perk, for example if you subscribe to "Sew Beautiful" home sewing magazine online renewal they will mail you one. But I have plenty of subscriptions and e-commerce activities to manage at the present. Something like this would have been distributed with a dresssmaker sewing machine or in a manual.

Late responses welcome.

Lisa,
I've got over 35 years experience behind me as a saddler, and I've gotta say I've never relied on charts to give the needle/thread size, it's experience...
In this country (New Zealand)we use to use the old english imperial measure for threads. Then about 35 years or so ago everything changed to metric, currency, measurements and speeds etc everything , threads became M12,M20,M40 etc. the lower the number the thicker the thread.
If the thread freys in the eye of the needle while you're sewing 9 thimes out of 10 it's due to a needle that's too small. if the needle's too big it pokes ugly great holes in your work.

If you're interested in hand sewing then it's just common sense. if your thread is feathered enough on the end then it doesn't really matter cause the thread will follow the needle. If it's tight going through the work use a bigger awl. If you don't want a big hole use a smaller awl, needle and taper your ends finer. I'ts just experience.
Schmetz use to publish a little blue book on their needles and the various sizes, but I've gotta tell you it'll make your head spin, eg at one time they had 90 different leather point needles - although this has subsequently been cut back, the scope of needles to their various applications is huge!
If you wanted something like this give your machine mechanic or supplier a call.
More power to y'awl.
T.

Dear Tom,
I will post a .pdf when I locate the chart. They do exist but I think it silly to subscribe to a magazine to obtain one. Many common sense relationships have been recorded to save the burden of oral history repition. In computer speak they are often called "FAQ" or frequently asked questions. . .

Regards,
Lisa

Lisa,

You were looking for a chart for needle to thread sizes.

I apologize for not posting this sooner. Well, that is, I apologize if you haven't found something sooner.

I think I clipped this out of an issue of Shop Talk magazine some time ago. It's been sittin' on the fax/copier/scanner, my wife bought us a while back. (Technology is still a trial for me sometime.)

Anyway, here is a chart I've used in the past. It may not be for your needle system, but I think you may find it of value. At least I hope so. And then, of course, someone else might.

PK

/image{Thread to Needle chart}

Dang,

See what I mean? It's a back slash. OK, here I go again.


PK

PK -- this is great!
Do you happen to have a chart with the UK to USA needle size equivalents?

Regards,
Lisa

Lisa,
No, I've not seen one. I wonder if Dan at www.proleptic.net would have one. He's the publisher of Shop Talk Magazine, which I believe is the source of this chart.
Good Luck.
PK

Hi there!
I have inherited a Gritzner Hand Punch style sole sewer. Still in operating condition.. Apparently it was made around 1905, and it still looks in good condition with a needle and bobbin in it.
What can I do with this and who could I sell it to?
I am in New Zealand and am more then happy to ship it.. I just don't want to throw it to the landfill.
Im happy if anyone wants to email me.
toasty@quicksilver.net.nz

Graeme,

Are you able to post pictures of the machine? I am doing a web search for information - do you know the model number?

Erick Wilcox

Hey Erick,

I emailed Graeme last night asking about pictures. It would be sad to see it just dumped...

I have a Gritzner, but I don't believe it was made as early as 1905. I think Graeme's might be similar to the ones made by Koh & ....??? can't think of the name, it'll come to me. They have a lever that you pull down to complete each stitch. They were set up to be clamped to a bench and were often used by the military among others, because they were so portable, but very basic and slow (by todays standards).

Frobana and later Gritzner, were taken over by Pfaff in the 1950's (Gritzner in '54?) I believe.

More power to y'awl.
T.

Tom,
It sounds like you are describing the Junker & Ruh SD-28, which I think was from the 30's, maybe? I would like to see pictures.... I doubt that he would junk it after hearing from two people within 24hrs...

I think it's interesting that companies that make "regular" sewing machines were also making machines for the shoe trade (beyond upper sewing anyway). Both Junker & Ruh and Gritzner seem to be know for flat sewing.

I am trying to find something to sew Stitch-downs, and I think, from the pictures I've seen, a Junker & Ruh would do the job (if anyone has some input, it would be apreciated!) I've been looking into American Straight Needle machines, but they're a little pricey at the moment (if indeed they would do the job). I saw a machine on Cambell-Bosworths site that they claim to do Stitch downs, but it doesn't look like there is a lot of room to manoeuvre in the instep area. Some sites are advertising MacKay machines for it (which would make them extra functional!)

I gotta go,

Erick

I spoke to my Grandfather about the machine, and he said that it was impossible to get needles for now, and that he stopped using it for that reason 30 years ago.. its still got a good needle in it at the moment (strangle looking needle!) it looks like a chisil..
Im not sure how to post pictures on here..
Im wanting to sell off the 70 pair of boot and shoe making lasts he had as well for a reasonable offer..
I find it sad that my Grandfather is to unwell to keep cobbling.. so I thought I would try and get the old stuff off to people that appreciated it, rather then taken to the jumbo bin.

I have had about 15 messages now in the last 24 hours, and NO Im not dumping it!!!! it seems that there are a few people that remember it...
Im happy to post pictures if people can tell me how...
Yes it does clamp on the bench and have a slow push down handle..
thanks everyone for all the interest! my grandfather was resigned to getting rid of it all, thinking that there were not very many old style cobblers like himself left!
He has been amazed at the response... at this rate I will have to set him up with the internet and get him on this forum as well!
thanks again everyone!
Graeme Watts

Graeme,

Do you have a digital camera? You will find instructions on how to post the photos under "Formatting" in the left frame. If you are having problems, email me.

OR...as an alternative...do you know how to attach photos to an email?

If so, send the photos to me and I will post them for you. If not you will have to regular mail the photos to me and I will have to scan them in and then I will post them. Slower but just as sure.

Again, email me if you are having trouble.

Email me one way or the other, please.


Yr. Hmb. Svt...

Equipment required? Here a report of bootmakers' thread making, from start to finish, with method and mechanism recent enough to ensure some are still available! (ca 1871). This information gleaned from the Welsh book, the rural history record "Cwm Eithin" written by Hugh Evans in 1931 where he records past activities in his district and writes:

"... Llin a nyddid hefyd i wneud edau i'r cryddion a'r sadleriaid. Yr oedd un ohonynt (droell) yng ngweithdy'r cryddion yng Nghynwyd drigain mlynedd yn ol, a gwraig yn arfer dyfod yno am dyddiau i nyddu".

Which in rough translation says:

"Linen was spun too, to make thread for the cordwainers and saddlers. There was one (a wheel) in the workshop of the cordwainers in Cynwyd sixty years ago, a woman was accustomed to go there for days to spin."

So there you are, The Spinning Woman. Grab one.

kind regards

Dai, The Fat Lamb Buyer

Here are photos of the Gritzner stitcher.



Emmett

Here's a couple of pictures of my rebuilt leather splitter, and a piece of stirrup butt that I split on it playing round...I know small boys and fools...

I stripped The machine down then the main body was sand blasted and hammer glazed, and the feed rollers were recut; (which took the guy like nearly a year), but such is life Walter and the knife was reground.

More power to y'awl.

T.

Tom,

That's a beaut! Will it do leather soling?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

It glows from within!!!


;-)