The Crispin Colloquy

Nasser,

Thanks for the kind words my brother. You're serious about the miner's lamp? Now that's determination. I finally have to take reading glasses to the shop these days myself.

Not trying to improve on the past... Is this re-creating the past? That's my question.
Surely, in all the hundreds of years someone tried this. The fact that it's not documented somewhere probably means it didn't work too well!
I've never heard of stringing until yesterday, so it made me curious if other versions of stringing exist.

Yes, Video! Those of us who learn by seeing would say a big THANK YOU.

Thx,
-Nat

I vote for Al's demonstration at AGM
Georgene

Nat,

Not sure, as I'm not clear on what you were proposing to try exactly. All I was suggesting was try the historical trick first, and afterwards adapt to suit, maybe one control-factor at a time. "Bracing" boot tongues must have worked fine for centuries until wooden "blocks" came in

Lack of documentation, or mentions in the record especially related to "long-work" (tall boots), was not uncommon--the "long-stitchmen" were the last bastion of hand-work, and many of their specific crans remained tightly-guarded oral tradition only. I was still having to pry them loose with liquor and tobacco in London and Northamptonshire in the 1970s. Compare the depth and detail the early-modern textbooks c1900, (e.g. Golding, Swaysland, Plucknett, et al) go into on making shoes, sequence of assembly, etc., versus tall riding boots, which were still largely hand-work. You get some pattern-drafting guide-lines for long-work, but little or nothing on the half-a-dozen other special details required to properly make the legs, including tongue-blocking (crimping), tongue-closing and "letting in" (fitting the tongue into the notch in the boot leg and edge-closing), how to assemble the lining at the tongue, close the counter to the vamp-wings, flip everything right-side out, change stitches, etc., etc. etc.

Before the rise in popularity of "Bohemian" (figuratively) whole-front, side-seamed boots in W. Europe--say c1790s-1800--I'm pretty sure, previously, all boot tongues had simply been "braced" up into shape, or string-crimped, to invent a term. I think that "blocks" (crimping boards) came in only with whole-front boots, initially without crimping screws, and were afterwards adopted to crimp tongue boots as well. (1877 'Patriotic Shoemaker' on the back of Salaman's 'Dictionary...' dust jacket is still using non-screwed boot block for whole-front Wellingtons!).

A couple of reasons why I say this:

1) Most boot-legs for tongue-boots were cut with "rearward inclination" (see Rees:1813) to tilt backwards so they clung snugly to the small of your keg in wear when bent upright. Therefore the tongues did not require being bend up fully to a 45 degree angle, but to our eyes were under-crimped. This is easily accomplished with "bracing" or "stringing"--no block/boards needed

2) The first wooden blocks/boards for crimping do not appear until Rees (1813), and 'L'Art du Chaussure' (1824), and in both cases they are described for crimping the new whole-front/side-seamed styles only ("Wellington" boots, "Austrians", and "Hessians", etc.), so it might be assumed that tongue-boots ("Jockey", "top boots", etc.) still had their tongues simply "braced" or "stringed".

Hopefully somebody will have a video camera at DW's on Sunday--I will reveal all then.

Georgene,

You got it!

I'm looking forward to seeing your presentation too--this old history-stuff may be mysterious to some, but women's knock-on heel shoe construction still baffles the Hell out of me

Making a, hopefully, drop dead shoebox.

How it was done:

I first bought a solid gift box, which was complete with hinges and a catch.



Taking a cheap electric carving knife, I cut a couple of foam 'L's. After the shoes fitted in properly (very slightly loose around the toe to account for the material), I glued the L's in place.
I used an 8w hot glue gun exclusively for this project. It sets quickly, and doesn't tend to spread and soak through velvet.



The lining, if pulled a bit (say, when putting the shoes in), would expose the bead of glue behind, (tested this on a scrap of card) so I cut strips of cereal box to the same length, but slightly narrower than the edges of the lid and main compartment. These were glued along the lower edge to keep them in place.



After a number of 'dry runs' with the cloth, getting the hang of where it needed to go, I pinned it down in the 'corners' (including the corners of the sponge to wall and the inside elbow of the 'L') with a blob of glue each, using a bone smoother. Velvet has a 'nap', a way it wants to go. Slippery one way, aggressive and grippy the other, which would mean either the shoe would be difficult to get in, or out, and affect the lay of the cloth when doing so. I therefore put the nap sideways giving a pleasant enough feel putting the shoes in and taking them out.
Remember, with velvet, smooth surfaces do not show it off to it's best. Rumples are good
I should have put more in the lid.



The velvet is then glued over the edge, with the bead of glue about a cm down from the top of the card. The whole is then pressed against the wall of the box to flatten the glue.



Another bead is put along the wall of the box, again about a cm or so down from the top, and the prepared cloth/card pushed onto it, making a neat “glue free look” lining. This is done with all the other sides.




The corners are a bit tricky, but are basically pulling the cloth over the side of the box, trimming it slightly wider than the thickness of the wall, moving the cloth away to get a blob of glue down in the corner, then quickly pleating and tucking the cloth in with a blunt point. Watch out for glue sticking to the 'poker'.

The end result is that the shoes are gently held in place, to the extent that the open box can be tipped up almost vertical (forwards or sideways) without them moving or dropping out.
This is my first attempt at doing this, but the results make me want to do it again with the next high level pair I make.






Hope this has been interesting.

Cheers
Duncan

Sounds great. I would love to see pictures.

Try again Geraldine, They should be visible now.

Cheers
Duncan

Looks great. I like the idea for a lot of specially crafted items.

Very Cool Duncan,
I also like the sentiment to provide a box to go with the pair. Very classy.
Best,
Paul

After attending DW's excellent presentation on using shrink wrap to protect the uppers at the AGM, I went home and tried it on a pair of boots in progress.


There just happens to be a shrink wrap distributor right here in Eugene, so I picked up a 150 gauge sample to try. It worked well but was somewhat difficult to remove, even with the hot iron wood burning tool. I think the 100 gauge would work OK too. I'll try that next time.

I'm wondering... if I bought a roll of shrink wrap if anyone is interested in buying a quantity from me to help defer the cost. (a whole roll is expensive). I won't discuss price here but it would be really cheap to get say 50 yards from me.

150 gauge means 150/10,000 of an inch thick or 1.5 mils if I am doing my units right.

Rick,

Well, what kind of wood burning tool do you have? Mine has an interchangeable tip that is effectively a blade--it probably wouldn't cut leather or the shrink wrap if it were cold but the controller has a thermostat and at the proper setting it will cut the shrink wrap so close to the welt and vamp that it's invisible. And cuts it slick as butter. I had no problem with the 200.

I wish I had had time or someone had asked...I would have hauled out my burner and I think it would have clarified the issue. Mack said in another thread that he actually uses a hot knife.

So...your first try looks real good.

What is the dimension of the shrink wrap you're thinking about? Is it a tube? Is it a flat sheet?

I might well be interested...all I have is samples...although I do think the 200 is better.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

(Message edited by dw on October 28, 2011)

Dad-burn-it! This is one of the presentations I really wanted to see. Maybe after Dee-Dubb catches his breathe, he'll demonstrate it on the forum. Anyone get some good pics?

Mine is like a soldering iron with a blade. It worked but I was just speculating that it would work better on the thinner product. Maybe the 150 gauge is fine though.

Dimensions are 10" folded sheet (20" unfolded). You can make a tube if you buy the sealer thing for several hundred dollars. I'm pretty sure i could make a sealer for about $10. Although I might electrocute myself with it.

Rick:

I'd be interested in getting some. I've googled shrink wrap before but never really figured out what to get, and minimum orders seem large. Of course, having missed the AGM, I'd need a bit of assistance to actually use the stuff.

Yes, I think Mack uses a dulled knife, which he just heats up over his burner.

Lance

Jake,

I think Rick video taped it. I can try to put together a photo essay but it wouldn't translate as well as in the video.

Rick, Lance,

See that's the difference--the interchangeable tip on my burner is thin...really more like an Xacto blade, except not sharp.

The heavier stuff is easier to work with...it's not so fragile and fussy. I wish I could see what the 150 is like and compare it to the 200. If the 200 is better we could always get a roll from Uline and share it out the same way. Might even be a little cheaper 'cuz the actually make the stuff. We'd be buying direct.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

DW,

The 150 is not too fussy and seems plenty thick. I can send you a sample, if you like.

Rick,

What is the tool? Is that a "Romango invention"? It looks like you stuck an Xacto knife on the end of your soldering iron!! Or is that the original tip that you were having problems with?

Now if you can just stick on a stepping motor and an AMD processor...

As for the sample...yes, please. And I will send you some 200.

That said...can you not get 200 from your source in Eugene?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

The tool is made by Xacto. Used in model airplane making to.... wait for it... cut shrink wrap!

BTW, widow covering shrink material is no good. Has no stiffness after shrinking. Also, the only model airplane shrink sheets at Eugene Toy and Hobby have a sticky back, which is not good either.

I really think the 150 is sufficient but I'll be interested to see what you think.

Great tool! Looks like it might be perfect especially if it has a thermostat/rheostat.

I'm sure that 150 would be sufficient...after all, I've done it with 100 (actually just finished inseaming the shoes I demonstrated the 100 on).

But with the lighter weight stuff, an errant hole can tear and get a little bigger if you are not careful. With the thicker stuff that doesn't happen.

Whatever they're using in the factories in N'hampton, it appears to be substantially heavier than even the 200. Just from appearances I'd guess about 600.

Of course, it may not even be shrink wrap. Frank suggested it might be vacuum sealed. But from the opacity and "substance" in the appearance of the film, it is a lot heavier than what we're using.

FWIW...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

(Message edited by dw on October 29, 2011)

Here are few pics from my glue construction shrink wrap project. A couple things here that are different than previously discussed. First, rather than make extensive use of tape to initially wrap the shrink wrap material on the shoes, I used a home made edge sealer to chop off and seal excess plastic. The sealer is basically just a piece of nichrome wire, attached to a stick with about 10 volts of current.



Still, some tape was needed. I cut the shrink wrap with a hot blade right up the the feather.


A little hard to see the shrink wrap here but now I'm ready to glue.


Finally, after gluing on the sole. In a few places the plastic is not stuck completely under the feather but it still works to protect the upper.

Rick,

Can you explain what you did with the nichrome wire? And how/why it works? I am thinking that one ought to be able to do the same thing with a woodburning tool especially if it is on a controller.

Maybe if I understood the principle I could select the right tip and the right temp and just free-hand a sealed shape. ??

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

DW,

Initially I tried to do it with the woodburning tool but couldn't make it work consistently. You may be able to if you can regulate the temperature better.

Even at 10 volts my wire gets red hot in about 60 seconds, which is too hot. What I do is place the shrink wrap under the wire with the electricity off. Then I turn it on and gently tug the shrink wrap until it pulls apart at the wire. I get a reproducibly good seal this way.

There is a silicone rubber strip under the wire so that when I press down, the plastic doesn't slip out. I cut up a silicone hot pan holder to make the strip. Don't tell my wife

What about the sealing strip on a vacuum packing machine. The machine I use to vacuum pack my venison can be set to seal only. Just a thought.

Don