Seeking knowledge or survey

[artzend]

Paul

It shouldn't make any difference what way you attach the upper to the insole, but you do need to remove the hair/wool/fur from any lining so that it doesn't go round the feather edge because it won't sit tight against the insole and defining the feather edge will become problematic.

What I did with a pair I made, was to stick the upper to the insole, used a rand and midsole which I Blake stitched through the insole to hold it all together better, then glued a sole to that.

The rand will pull in tight to the upper and help to keep water and dirt out when the midsole has been stitched up tight. I know it's not as traditional as some would like, but it means you can use a chunky cleated type sole, and if your midsole is solid (ie. leather) you can also screw the sole as well as using glue.

The reverse counter lining I was thinking of is just calf or goat and would just be for reducing the rubbing that would happen if you ran the hair right down at the heel, and which would rub off fairly quickly anyway.

I am assuming that the lining is going to be a bag type (loose) and putting a smooth back to the counter lining is preferable to a closed seam right down the back.

Does that help?

[paul]

Yes, that is informative Tim. Thank you.

It makes alot of sence to do a reverse counter cover as you describe. Great!

I'm guessing your Blake stitcher is like our McKay stitcher from the sound of it. I can see that would be a good way to go also.

And regarding lining contstruction choices, I'm still just in the ruminating mode. I don't know how Grealdine was planning her linings. Maybe she'll pipe in with questions of her own.

Thanks again for your input,
Paul

[relferink]

With winter quickly approaching I'm having a stove installed in my workshop area.
The concern I have is for my upper leathers. How do I keep them from drying out too much. Should I store it so that they are shielded from the direct heat from the stove? Would a humidifier be a good idea? Are there other things I can do?

If anyone has experience (good or bad) I'd like to hear it. I would not want to write off most of my my leathers after the winter.

Rob

[dw]

Rob,

Is it to be a wood stove?

I had a gas stove right around the corner from my leather bin in my first "public" shop. Not quite the same but same issues, really.

First, whenever you have a source of direct heat like that it is wise...for your own health...to have a big iron teakettle full of water sitting on top of the stove. That will humidify the air probably enough to at least partially compensate for any drying effect that the stove might have.

After all, consider the options...baseboard heat, radiator heat, radiant floor heating...you probably wouldn't even think of adding humidity if you chose one of those. But you would still be drying the air to some extent. So the tea kettle might actually be adding more humidity to the air than you would otherwise get.

The other thing is to pull those leathers once a month (or more...or less) and give them a liberal coating of Lexol or some similar product.

That's what I did--both the Lexol and the teakettle--and in the four years or so that I was in that shop, I never had any problems.

Hope that helps...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dearbone]

Rob,
I think no bespoke boot/shoe shop is complete without a wood stove, i don't have one in my shop now, but i worked in a shop for two and half years that had a wood stove and being the youngest of the three that worked in the shop, my duty was to bring wood in to start the fire every morning during the cold season(s) and if i can't make it to the shop by 6.00 am i must have kindles and wood ready for the 86 years old maker (my teacher), if you can't find an iron kettle as DW suggested, an open iron pot with water is what we used, I don't remember having problems with leather that was stored in the shop, once in a while, on Fridays the elder shoe maker used to bring a bottle of his home made wine and sausages for lunch and cooks them on the stove,Fred longtin used to cook steaks on the stove in minutes.

Nasser

[relferink]

DW, Nasser,

It's a pellet stove and the plan is to heat most of the house by keeping the basement (where my shop is) heated. The rising air will give the rest of the house a comfortable base temperature. We assume we need the oil to bring it up the last couple of degrees on the days we won't be wearing sweaters.
It also will make a very nice addition to the shop and make it more comfortable. I may have to get a cat so it can sleep in front of the stove as I work.
Before the basement was not heated but would rarely drop below 60, now it's going to be closer to 75 on a regular basis and the way it's currently set up, the leather is in direct view of the stove. I think it would be a good idea to shield the leather from the radiant heat but wonder if I have to move it into a different room. That involves a lot of re-organizing in the basement

I was planning on putting a metal bucket with water next to the stove, this design does not lend itself to putting it up top. If needed I'm not opposed to getting a humidifier. I already figured I had to do that.

DW, do you remember which of the Lexol products you used for that? Just the clear tan liquid, I forget the name now. I think that will be a serious job to do every month or so but if it gets me though the heating season without loosing any leather it's worth it.

The stove goes in on Thursday, just in time for the cold weather to arrive!

Rob

[hidesmith]

Rob,
If you're relying on the hot air to just rise on its own, you might have difficulty. The most successful heating of the upstairs occurs when there is an opening in the floor, or a door near the heat source, as well as another opening in the floor (again, or a door) in a cooler part of the house. There needs to be a steady flow - as the air warms and rises, there must also be a separate cold air return. Convection works - when convection is actually possible.

If I might suggest a teapot on the stove, that way, you'll always be ready for a cupper. Maybe hot cider on occasion, or the occasional celebratory toddy.
Best,

Bruce

[dearbone]

Rob, pardon my ignorance, but is a pellet stove a peat burning stove or something else? i think Bruce has a point, unless you have a hole like a stair casing opening from the basement to the top floor, how are you going to get enough warm air to heat the top floor?

Nasser

[relferink]

Bruce,

Thanks for the tip. We are considering installing vents in the floor to get the warm air up if the current cracs, gaps and the open door turn out not to be enough. There are some nifty vent systems available that can be set to open and close by them self depending on the temperature desired. Some of the houses in the neighborhood that have a similar construction seem to do well with a pellet stove in the basement without further modifications so we are going to try it.
Besides the house is a ranch, only one floor over a full size basement, based on the research we have done it's going to cut our oil bill by a lot.
For the really cold days we'll still have the oil as a backup to push the temperature up a couple of degrees if needed but it will make a big difference in oil consumption if the boiler needs to bring the temperature from whatever the temperature outside is to 68 or from 65, where we think the stove should get us.

Nasser,

No apology necessary. It was new to me before we started looking into it. The stove burns pellets made out of compressed saw dust and wood chips. It's a fully recycled product. It burns very hot and clean, giving off more heat than a comparable amount of fire wood and creates less ash. The stove has an automatic feed and ignition and can run off a thermostat so other than filling it with begs of pellets and cleaning some ash it does not need much tending to unlike a wood stove. In my garage I have 2 pellet sized loads with bags of pellets.
When oil went over $4.- a gallon with no drop in sight (who could have guessed) we figured that was the way to stay warm and it gives me heat in my shop, up to now I worked with space heaters, not ideal.
Even with oil at $2.50 or if we get lucky to see it drop to $2,- a gallon this should save us some money this coming season. If you Google pellet stoves you'll find all kinds of information on them.

Rob

[dw]

Rob,

I always used the Lexol that comes in the brownish/tan bottle. The stuff that comes in the cream coloured bottle is a form of neatsfoots oil.

If I were you I might very well build a partition or some sort of heat shield to protect your leather though.

And if you don't have a shelf or something to put your tea kettle directly on the top of the stove you might think of some way to rig one up because it is not just evaporation but the steam coming from the tea kettle that humidifies the air.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[bootmkr]

To All,

I'm looking for books on making shoes. Whats out there?

Lonnie

[relferink]

Lonnie,

You are obvious not new to the trade so you may not be looking for the same thing the average new student is interested in. Are you looking for an all inclusive type manual or something addressing a specific area in depth like lasts or pattern cutting?
What type of shoes are you going to make?

Rob

[bootmkr]

Larry,
Thanks for the info, I have George Koleff books that got from you years ago, I was looking for more of a manual for shoemaking.

Lonnie

[admin]

To all,

There is an explicit prohibition against self-promotion for profit or commercial gain written into the rules of this forum. What is more, there was a recent "System Announcement" that reiterated that proscription.

While no rules about quoting prices have been violated, the last several posts in this topic have come perilously close to violating the intent and spirit of the Forum.

As a consequence those posts have been sent to Coventry until such time as the moderators can review them and decide how best to implement and convey the seriousness of our intent.

If it should be decided that they acceptable, they will be restored.

I might add that when such a question is asked...and it was a legitimate question...there is nothing to prevent a member from PM'ing the questioner with info and details (including prices) about his/her offerings. This feature has been available (to those who familiarize themselves with the Forum) since its inception.

Yr. Hmb. Svt.

[dw]

Lonnie,

There may be no manual of shoemaking in the sense that you mean. At least none contemporary. Almost everything written after the early 1900's tends to focus on one small part of the process--usually on patternmaking. And even those leave out such essential pieces of the puzzle as how to draft and make a heel stiffener; or assembly sequences, etc..

Perhaps the closest fit for you might be the eight volume set by Golding--two of which (two of the most pertinent) are available for download on the HCC homepage in pdf format. And hopefully by years end or shortly thereafter a third volume will also be available.

Beyond that, there is the HCC library and the postings on this Forum...together they just might comprise the closest thing to an actual, complete manual that ever there was.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[bootmkr]

Hi Tim,

I'm thinking about buying your book, is it easyer to go though Larry Walrus or though you? I have to finish the two pairs boots I'm working on now before ordering your book.

Lonnie

[bootmkr]

Dw,
Thanks for the info I'll try that.

Lonnie

[sorrell]

Well, I may be sorry for this, but I've taken an order for a pair of boots with a zipper down the side seam. I've never made a pair of zippered boots before so any tips or advice would be appreciated.

My main question is: Should the zipper be covered with a little flap of leather or are the teeth completely exposed? What about inside the boot? Do I need to have a flap of leather covering the zipper on the outside to make it look nice, or a flap of leather on the inside to protect the skin from the zipper teeth?

Tell me if I'm overthinking this. I've put in hundreds of zippers into clothing and the zippers are always covered rather than completely exposed, and I don't know if they need to be put in the same way with leather.

Lisa

[mmboots]

Lisa,

I've made boots both with leather flap and with the teeth completely exposed. Another way is to sew the zipper set in so that when it's zipped up the two side almost touch covering the zipper. I hate making boots with zippers but, sometimes thats the only way to go. Also I make the boot with both side seams frist then cut out the seam for the zipper.

Hope this helps.

Mike

[dw]

Lisa,

Well, I've never put a zipper in a custom made pair of mine. But I have put them in high grade boots during repair operations, so take what you can from this...

In some cases it is possible to simply replace the side welt with a zipper trimming away enough to allow the slide to function smoothly. This leaves a big gap, naturally. I suspect that this approach...where the zipper replaces the side welt...could be handled in a more refined manner, but it might entail some radically different closing techniques especially with regard to closing the vamp and counter cover on the zipper side--which will usually be the medial side.

On some boots such as English riding boots, where there is no side seam, we simply made a long cut a little short of the length of the zipper. Then we punched a hole at the bottom and at the top of the cut. This is to provide a "home" for the slide. When the slide is pulled, it will open the cut (if the stitching is far enough apart) and the cut will close back down when the slide is past.

As for a strip of leather on the inside...I always did it, esp. for men. It kind of tingles when you get your leg hair caught in the slide.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dearbone]

Dear sister Lisa,

I made few side zipper boots and i have an order for one, i always put a flap for the inside,i also made flap for the outside to cover the zipper,but not really necessary and the outside is better left uncovered, it just looks better.

Regards
Nasser

[artzend]

Lisa

There are a number of things you can do here. If you slit the upper leather down the middle of the zip line, you can stitch the zip in, leaving the leather to meet over the top of the zip, or it can be cut back to expose the teeth.

The leather inside to cover the teeth and protect the leg is a good idea, and this is usually stitched at the back of the zip, covering the teeth and opening to the front.

Take the zip down as far as you can to make entry easy without putting strain on the zip. With plastic zips you don't need to have them the right size. Get them longer and when stitching the lining, just stitch over the zip and up the other side, the stitching will lock the end of the zip and you can come back later and cut off what isn't needed, although it is relatively common to put the end under the insole, but this isn't compulsory.

Glue the zip onto the upper and stitch around before putting the lining in place and stitching that. Two rows of stitching are usually used. Double sided tape can be useful here to avoid glue.

If exposing the teeth, check how wide the slider needs to move easily and make that the distance between the two sides, possibly 10mm.

Tim

[romango]

Lisa,

I'm a little late to this discussion but... I have made one pair of zipper boots and several fitters. What I encountered is that you must have a flap on the inside or the zipper will catch the sock or leg. ouch!

[sorrell]

Thanks to all for the helpful advice. Tim, I was wondering which way the flap would go on the inside and planned to ask that very question. Thanks for addressing that!

This boot is a one piece top. The single side seam is on the medial side where the zipper goes. So sewing it in and then cutting it open isn't an option, unfortunately. Also, ALL of my side draft has to be in that seam, so that will probably make installing this zipper even more interesting.

Lisa

[dw]

Lisa,

Several thoughts...

First, you could design your tops so that the side seam came together, edge to edge. You might do this anyway if you are intending to braid that seam. Then design your lining so that one side was about an inch wider than the side edge. So that this extra substance will create the inner flap that covers the teeth of the zipper.

When you install your zipper add an extra, thin but firm, strip of leather the length of the zipper between the teeth and the outer leather of the tops. it should be as wide as the zipper or just slightly longer or narrower. Catch that strip when you sew your zipper in place--on both sides. the result will be a completely closed top with the zipper sandwiched in between the top and strip and the liner.

When the boot is lasted, this strip will prevent the side seam from opening. And when the boot is finished, a narrow French skive may be used to cut that strip completely away, close to the threads...leaving a zipper that is covered both inside and out, but usable.. Just as if you had cut the top , the edges will close up to each other over the teeth of the zipper.

Just an idea...like I said, I've never done this in boots but i have done similar things with other items . anyway, take it for what it's worth...maybe helpful maybe not.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC