Insole leather

[das]

Bruce,

Don't be paranoid

Isn't "red rot", especially in bookbindings, attributed to the era of gas lighting, which put off all sorts of nasty stuff? You can neutralize overly acid (archaeological) leather by "tenting" it under a garbage bag with a small dish of household ammonia--the fumes do the work--and testing with ph paper strips if you're that worried.

Marc Carlson had a library trick to de-acidify book pages by painting them with some sort of store-bought antacid like Pepto Bismol--but check with him on that before you paint pink mint-flavored stuff on anything please.

[dw]

Bruce,

Analytical thinking is not paranoia (although it may be the reason one becomes paranoid .

If experience, and data, and sound objective logic lead you to a certain viewpoint, it's not paranoia nor is it necessarily wrong. It only becomes paranoia when a person has data (evidence) and good sound logic and maybe even the experience of others (literature, traditions, collective wisdom) that contradicts his own perspective in front of him and he refuses to acknowledge it. Note: I didn't say "accept it..."

I personally think this is a subject where the truth is not wholly known and where for most of us, individually, analytical thinking is the best defense against fossilization.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[das]

DW,

Okay... Hubbard's=petro... petro=bad... no mo' Hubbard's

How about Sno-Seal in the tubes, the "original beeswax formula"? Another favorite of mine.

[dw]

Al,

I always like SnoSeal, although it does accumulate (and pick up dirt). But my "all tyme favor-rite" is Montana Pitchblend--made of beeswax and lanolin and enough pine pitch to keep the snarks from sniffing out your pups.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[das]

DW,

I've always cooked Sno-Seal in with a hair drier because it is so sticky, gooey, messy, then I wipe off all the excess. Klingbiel melts it into liquid in a heated tray, then dips his ice-skating boots in it to waterproof the soles.

Must try this here Pitch Blend one day.

[big_larry]

I would like to offer another item to the accumulative. I have been a knife maker for about 50 years. (in warm weather) I make a rather dense combination of bee's wax and pure needsfoot oil and heat it till' it melts. I then soak the leather scabbard in the hot oil bath until it turns a dark redish brown. I then retreive the scabbard, let it drip a bit and wipe it off. Later I burnish the edge and polish the leiather.

In my mind, I beleive the leather is well penetrated and sealed from water and any other dirt or contaminates. I think I will try using some of this mix on a pair of insoles the next time I make a pair of boots for myself or a close family member just to see how it holds up. My oldest son and I raise a few cows and farm with wheel line sprinklers. The water along with the contents of the stable, is really tough on leather boots. Neither one of us will wear rubber boots so it should be a good trial.

I will post the results as soon as I can determine any real results.

It is my understanding that paranoia is a factor present in every one's personality and that it is only when it reaches a point high enough that it becomes clinically significant or pathological. It is perhaps this healthy paranoia that keeps us from being "duped" every time someone wants to ding our wallet. (This obviously does not apply to our children) On the other hand, maybe people are really out to get us! No no, forget that last line.

Thank you for tolerating me, Larry Peterson

[shoestring]

Larry & others

I have been a repairman for quit sometime and have often encountered articles that's been over oiled.Sure it prevents water damage to the leather but the heavy oiling stops the leather from breathing and the fibers are soaked to much they become mushy in a long run not strong and dense, older articles will break or can be pulled a loose by hand in some cases.I believe something like Snow-Proof/ Snow-Seal or Montana Pitchblend is better and more workable in a long run. My favorite is Aussie's cream.Understand me here I am not discrediting no ones proven method but that's been my observation over the years.And my 2 cents worth.

Ed

[dw]

Al,

I always did the same. The Montana Pitchblend as well....fact is, it penetrates lots better than the SnoSeal ever did. Heat it, let it sit overnight and the surface will be near dry in the morning.

Ed,

I agree with you. As I said, I think it's all a matter of degree. Too much of anything can be worse than none at all.

I once had a customer who had a pair of handmade Curran caulks that weren't three months old. When they were brand spankin' new he soaked the boot in neatsfoot oil until the leather oozed oil when folded.

When I saw them...at the three month mark...they were like rags and he was walking out of them. Not much I could do.

I'd rather see leather never treated than treated too much or too often...no matter what kind of oil/dressing.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[big_larry]

D.W.,

After googeling Baker, consulting SHATA's Big book, I have not been able to get an address for Baker. Ther is a large leather company in Great Britton by that name that manufactures shoes, boots and many other leather items?

My friend, would you consider giving me a referral number or address to get in touch with Baker.

Thank you for all your work and effort on the Colloquy.

I wish you well, Larry Peterson

[dw]

Larry,

Here you go...

J & F.J Baker Co. Ltd
Colyton, Devon. EX136PD
England
ph: (01297)552282

BTW, Baker will probably want to sell a roll--10 hides--as a minimum. If enough people were willing to create a Buyer's Consortium (that's what we did the first time we ordered Baker into this country), I'd be willing to either honcho it or help whoever does.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[big_larry]

Thank you!

I would be willing to go for two or three of the ten. I am not in favor of wasting money or resources, however, I don't think a few extra dollers put into a boot to make it the best it can be, really hurts the profitability in the long run or in the big picture. I even like to waste a little leather, especially on the vamps. Being a quarter of an inch short isn't something I want to experience. I like to trim a bit on the uppers too.

I am not much for "spearheading" a project, but I am a reasonably good follower. I would be elated to join in for a purchase if we can get enough interest.

Thank you again for the referral.

Larry Peterson

[chuck_deats]

I would take one if they are close to 1/4" thick.

Chuck

[mac]

DW,

I'm (finally) starting to gather equipment and materials so I would gladly take one or two of the ten. I like the idea of a buyers consortium if you'll "honcho" the order.

Sean

[bill_harris]

DW,

I would take 1 or 2 of the Baker leather.

Bill

[sorrell]

DW,
I'd take two.

Lisa

[dw]

All,

I am looking into this as we speak. Be aware that Baker insole leather may cost as much as prime domestic soling leather....before we start adding shipping to the US, any customs and customs brokerage, and shipping from me to you.

This would be a Crispin Colloquy Buyer's Consortium. As such, final prices that each individual will pay will be only actual charges from Baker plus additional shipping, customs, etc. as they accrue. No profit, no handling fees are added, despite the time and energy it takes in arranging the sale/shippment, and never mind the repacking and re-shipping when the leather arrives stateside. That said, the last time we did this, some folks were a little bit taken aback by the final price which came in roughly 30-40% higher than Bakers quoted price per pound, when all was said and done.

If...and I say IF...I take this on and this all goes through, I want to be sure everyone is prepared for not only the delay and the hassles (the rolls are...or were...sent via ocean shipping--it seemed like it made passage on a 19th century sailing ship) but also the additional expenses beyond what might be initially quoted or have been expected. I believe it is worth it but if anyone doubts...let them contact me immediately.

Finally, what I will be ordering will be standard 10 iron insole shoulders. The last time we ordered, some of us went with "bull" shoulders which were closer to 12 iron. But not only was that hard to get...then...but I found myself splitting them anyway (and I like a heavy insole for boots).

Finally finally...I'll do it but I would really wish that someone with European contacts, maybe a European bank account, etc.,(ahem) take this on rather than me. If anyone fits that bill (ahem), or wishes to do the honors...or even feels (probably with good reason) that they can do it better. Please, please, contact me immediately.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[chuck_deats]

DW
I am still go for one. Don't know how this works, but a significant deposit or estimated cost before ordering does not seem unreasonable.

Chuck

[big_larry]

D.W.,

I agree with Chuck and will forward the estimated cost in advance. If that does not totally cover the cost, then you can give us the final cost before shipping and we/I can send the remaining amount.

I see this as a real opportunity. When I was in "boot school" Mr. Merrell had a showcase of very special boots. One of them was a third boot made up for the Govenor of the Great State of Utah. The inlay of the State Seal wes cut on a lazer machine and the third boot he kept for display was absolutely beautiful. The Gov' was supposed to leave the boots in the State Capital show case, however, when he left office to head the E.A.P. in Washington D.C. he took the boots with him. I can't blame him, if I was in his position I wouldn't give them up either.

In each of our bootmaking careers, we have "special" orders. Special to us and special to our clients. Here in Sanpete County we have a "Dude Ranch" that caters to the "Rich and Famous." I have a friend that makes boots that has made very special boots for N.B.A. Basket ball stars and a lot of famous folks. I would like to have the reputation of making a quality boot and this opportunity to get 2 or 3 shoulder bends for soleing it just one more step in the quality direction. I want to thank you for the opportunity.

Please let me know what is needed and when. I also am over 21 years of age and know that there are no guarentees of what we will get. I think the odds are in our favor and in the long run will be well worth the hastle and cost.

Please count me in, "Win, loose, or draw."

Thank you, Larry Peterson

[mac]

D.W.,
Count me in.
Sean

[fred_coencped]

DW,
Please include 1 skin for me.
Thank You ,Fred

[dw]

All,

I have a letter going out to Bakers...the whole point of which is to determine prices. I would endeavor to keep everyone abreast of any charges--from price per pound to shipping to exchange rate fees to brokerage fees--before committed our informal little buyers consortium to purchase.

I will keep tabs of who is in and who is not. Anyone can back out at any time but bear in mind that doing so may endanger the whole contract...so don't commit unless you mean it.

Just let me caution...this is a long laborious process. It may be July before we even get close to seeing any leather. So if you need insole shoulder in the meantime call Stevenson-Paxton.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[mmboots]

DW,

I'll take a couple for my shop. Just let me know if you need any help with the handling when it comes in. It would be a good reason to come over for a weekend. Thanks

Mike

[dw]

All those interested in getting in on our informal little buying consortium for Baker insole and outsole leather need to contact me. frommer@ bootmaker.com immediately.

If everyone who indicated an interest initially confirms this may be a fairly large order.

I have a letter from J. & F.J Baker dated 16th January 2008...to whit:

As to prices for O/B. Tanned Insole Leather 6/10 iron these are £7.82 lb and the Shoulder will be about 9 to 13 lbs in weight. The Oak Bark Outside Bends 10/11 iron are also £7.82 lb. Each bend will average 11 to 12 lb.

I believe that we can "mix and match" both substance and item. In other words, a buyer could order a 6 iron shoulder and a 10 iron shoulder and a 10/11 iron bend.

The conversion rate is roughly two to one...making £1.00 = $2.00.

Air Freight shipping (UPS) is twice as expensive as Sea Freight shipping and there will be a customs and brokerage fees as well as shipping from point of entry to each contracted member of the consortium. Fees (freight and customs/brokerage, etc.) that accrue to the shipment as a whole, will be assessed equally among all consortium members regardless of quantity ordered.

As confirmed orders accumulate and when we have sufficient orders to make a purchase, I will try to provide a closer estimate of the final cost to each buyer. But it should be recognized that estimates are just that--estimates, guesses--and final figures can be different that quoted.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dw]

All,

Last call going out for the Baker insole/outsole leather consortium.

Please contact me if you are interested.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dw]

All,

Re: Baker insole/outsole buyer's consortioum

I have a confirm and a go on the Baker order. It is a big one. I will be sending out invoices to everyone who participated in this buy.

One problem....Someone contacted me fairly late and added a 10 iron insole shoulder and a 10/11 iron outsole bend. but I cannot find the email confirming that order. I have 10 orders and only 9 confirmed buyers.

I have Sean and Lisa and Fred and Chuck and Larry and Carlo and Lance and Ken & Val.

Anyone who is not on this list but should be, please contact me immediately.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member