One "Last" Question

[dw]

Well, I've seen build-ups on both boot and shoe lasts that were uncoated. Mike Ives used to use AP and when it was almost dry just dust a heavy coat of French chalk (talcum powder) over it. Most of the powder stuck providing a somewhat slick surface.

But wet leather against wet leather never slides in my opinion. Heck, try to get your foot into a good fitting boot if your sock is wet...good luck! Since I last wet, I think I'll stick with coating my build-ups.

I'm glad to hear that DiamondCoat is poly because even if it doesn't seem like it, even dry acrylic is water soluble if left in contact with moisture. I know this because I often finish my boots with a waterborne acrylic "wax." It feels good when dry but don't let it get wet again. Of course maybe an acrylic varnish(?) would be formulated different...?? Who knows?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[rocketman]

Thanks Rick, you beat me to the experiment!
I knew I had seen this press cement before but couldn't place it. Now I remember, it is the same as airplane dope. That is where the slang for drugs came from because the fumes made you stupid. I was obviously overexposed as a child. You can still get it for fabric planes and is the same price as toe gum or press cement. We used to bond the fabric to the wood for models with it and then shrink the fabric by painting with the nitrated paints/lacquers. Duuh! Well if the shoe suppliers ever run out, this might be another source.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/dopesthinnrsolvents.php
Model airplane hobby shops usually carry small quantities also.
Lyle

[romango]

Good Sleuthing. I happen to know a guy that did airplane model work for many years. I'm sure if I had known the right question, he would have had some in his basement.

It's really great stuff. I hate to see folks suffering with lacquer or water based poly-U, even if they do get the job done.

[dw]

When Barge quit making press cement, I contacted a number of chemical companies associated with the shoe industry. I received samples from several of them. What I learned was that there is press cement and then there is press cement. Some add plasticizers to retard hardening or to make the final result more flexible. And when they do the solvent changes. They smell so toxic the senses rebel. I had several versions that quite literally made me sick to my stomach.

I finally settled on a press cement from Midwest Chemical that is nearly identical to the old Barge product. At least it doesn't make me sick.

And many years ago, I had someone, who claimed medical knowledge, tell me that the human body produces acetone naturally. I don't know whether that is true...don't take it to the bank or bet your health on it...but press cement was in use for many decades with no apparent correlation between ill health and the cement. At least it's not MEK or benzene.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[romango]

Acetone is low on the toxic scale. Toluene (Barge) is somewhat more toxic. Here is a table:

http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ohb/HESIS/solv_cht.htm

[ridgerunrbunny]

Acetone use was banned in the film industry, not so much because of the vapors but because it is readily absorbed by the skin and goes straight to the liver. We used to clean the magic markers and grease pencils off the acetate and mylar with it. I started using rubber finger tips when ever using it. The table does not mention absorbsion toxicity.

Bunny

[romango]

Many solvents have been used casually, to ill effect, in the past. The trick is not to get complacent about any of them. It is true that acetone is absorbed readily through the skin but the danger in probably greater from what is dissolve in it that is also drawn into the skin with the acetone.

Avoid getting it on your hands in a big way and avoid huffing large quantities and it is very tame on the larger scale of toxicity. Compared to the toluene in Barge, it is of way less concern.

It is still used widely as a nail polish remover, for perspective. This is pretty much applying it directly to the skin.

Disclosure: I am not an expert on solvent exposures but I was a chemist for 20 years and am conversant with the issues.

[ridgerunrbunny]

Well I'm not conversant with chemical issues, I only know what went on in a particular time and place.
Bunny

[dw]

Rick,

While I'm not, in the normal course of things, a big fan of Wikipedia, I note with some small satisfaction the following from there:

Small amounts of acetone are metabolically produced in the body, mainly from fat. In humans, fasting significantly increases its endogenous production (see ketosis). Acetone can be elevated in diabetes.

Which seems to confirm the little bagatelle of wisdom that was passed on to me years ago.

It crosses my mind, however...given the quote...that if acetone is a significant concern, a person would want to avoid dieting, as well as painting the nails.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[rocketman]

Happy New Year Everyone!
Having some time off for the holidays, I managed to make a pair of Koleff geometric wooden lasts. I was wondering if someone has a suggestion for any cool thimbles or ferrules that can be inserted into the wood like the plastic lasts have. What do most of the homebuilt last makers out there use or do shy of cranking up the Atlas metal lathe?
Thanks, Lyle

[dw]

Lyle,

I recently had access to some top end shoe lasts (wood) and to a pair they did not have any thimble. Shoes can be...were traditionally...lasted, inseamed, and bottomed on the knee with nothing but a stirrup to keep it steady.

I make boots and since I began...and for years before I was even born (time out of mind, in other words...boot lasts have had a thimble. Even when making shoes I prefer working with a last with a thimble, although some tasks that I do on the spindle when making boots, I do on my knee when making shoes.

The several times I have made lasts for boots, I simply used a piece of galvanized pipe in a compatible dimension, cut it about a quarter inch longer than the spindle and left it a little bit proud of the last. But you wouldn't need to leave it proud...and in wood, I'd be worried it would create problems--most of mine were poured (plastic) lasts.

Anyway...for what it's worth....

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[btippit]

Lyle,

DW's method will work fine. If you prefer the easy way out, I couldn't get in the habit of this, but send me your address and I'll mail you a couple of pairs of thimbles. Once you drill the hole in the last to the outside diameter of the thimble you can secure them with a wood screw as the bottom opening of the thimble is narrower than the shaft diameter. These are also pre-crimped in three places to give them more grip for less slip.

Bill “The Last Man Standingâ€

[chuck_deats]

Lyle,
FWIW, I use the aluminum tubing you can purchase in the metal goods section of the hardware store. The piece I had on hand is 3/4" OD, 9/16" ID. A little large, 1/2" ID would be better. Cuts easily with hacksaw or band saw. A little epoxy holds it in place. One piece of tubing is a lifetime supply.

Chuck

[rocketman]

Thanks guys,
Bill, I really appreciate the offer but this is my first "geometric" last so I think that I will play with some hard copper pipe with a cap soldered on and epoxied in for this one for a few test boots before I get fancy with a real thimble. I used redwood for the last so I think that a metal cap will be wise until I understand the loads going through it.
And thanks for a good data point with the Aluminum Chuck. I was thinking of using 1/2" EMT galvanized electrical conduit but I wanted to cap it and if Al works, then copper will also. I already have some 1/2" left over from some plumbing work. If it works, I'll post a photo.
Lyle

[chuck_deats]

Lyle, et al

Just finished a set of lasts using Popular from the big box stores. It has a nice uniform grain structure. Not as good as Maple, but cheaper and works easier. Have to drive tacks a little deeper. Will do for a few pair of boots.

Finally got AutoCad working: Input foot measurements to Excel, a few copy-pastes and print out full scale last profile and bottom. Same for blockers, top patterns, and counters(Oops, stiffeners). Not perfect but getting better. Thank you, DW and George Koleff

The economics of last making is interesting. $25 for material, $10 for bandsaw blade, $5 for sanding belt, $2-$3 for glue, etc. Close to $50 before you start. Looking a what Bill charges, it makes for mighty poor wages. That's why we call it a hobby.

Chuck

[large_shoemaker_at_large]

Dear Chuck
am new to this web forum. Auto cad to excel? Sounds interesting?
Could you expand on this? I have used some 3d cad for houses etc and have played a bit with Sketchup(sic) from Google. I have inquired about the Lightbeam system and got a quick response. Is that used for your methods?
Regards

[btippit]

Chuck,

You mean I'm NOT going to be able to retire to the islands by the time I'm 55? There goes another dream shattered. At least it's fun work and fun people to do it for.

Bill “The Last Man Standingâ€

[chuck_deats]

Brendan,

Will reply over in the Eclec-Tech thread.

Bill,

Sorry about that. We will probably end up on the same poor farm except they don't have those any more. Just the first time I had put numbers to lasts. Looked at OLGA and it is impressive and looks fairly easy to use.

Chuck

[dw]

Here's a question I've been meaning to ask for some time. Especially aimed at the shoemakers who have some experience...viewing, holding, fondling...the European styles as exemplified by G&G or Delos, Berluti, etc..

Most of the shoe styles offered in this vein tend to have extended toes. I am wondering how much extended.

I assume, from Golding and other traditional (as well as contemporary) sources that two sizes or about 15mm is the usual clearance on a medium round toed last. But that doesn't seem even remotely possible with some of the shoes referenced above.

Is it an inch? More? They look like some of them might even have an inch and a quarter (3cm+) clearance beyond the toe of the foot. And this on shoes with a somewhat wide square toe.

Can anyone shed some light on this?


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[gshoes]

Inquiry about building up a last. I am new to this group. I am reading through many pages of old postings for my question. I have a lot to read and I just have one simple question. I am trying to alter the toe length and joint by less than 1/2 inch. Can I simply barge cement leather to the surface? And do I then need to varnish the surface?


Geri

[artzend]

Geraldine,

Yes just glue the leather to the last. You may need to rough the surface but it is not always necessary. As it is the toe you are building up you may need a nail through into the last to hold it steady when lasting, but that is really only necessary when the build up is big and layers of leather get unwieldy.

No you don't need to use varnish, although when built up and ground to shape, some powder on it before lasting is essential.

Tim

[ridgerunrbunny]

Geraldine, Bruce sent me a pair of Lasts for my first shoe. I built it up oh so pretty. I thought I should adjust them to the size of my foot. But unfortunately I was wrong. The finished shoe turned out oh so funny looking. Something like bozo the clown shoes and I ended up tearing them apart to resize them. I then went back to the original Bruce lasts and removed the leather build-ups, sanded the glue off and re-varnished them.I then made a pair of slip ons for Hubby without changing the last (one I got from Georgene) and they came out so much better. So I am now on my third pair with a new outlook. It was a definite learning experience. I now know that what I think is, ain't.

Bunny

[mack]

DW,
Apart from G&G I have only seen pictures of the other European styles.I think the shoes appear more elongated in the photos.As you know photos taken from certain angles kind of distort the shape somewhat and the shoes can look very snouty! I can only go by the last making I do myself and I work on 2 or 3 sizes depending on the look I want, but I have only made normal classic shapes.
Some of the making methods we use for the bespoke work can help elongate the toe beyond the last length, using the insole and an extra toe piece, I also do this if I want to make a square toe on a round last.
Not a great deal of help I know, but I think the shoes you are looking at are the more extreme end of shape and style. The older style models I get to look at are a little less extreme and I prefer them for my own private work.
Regards Mack.

[dw]

Mack,

Thanks for the reply. This must be a hard one. Maybe if I come at it from another direction...

What kind of clearance/toe allowance are you using on the shoes you are building?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[angel]

Sabbage's sectionizer states that 1/12th of the total length is left for toe allowance. I was surprised at this when I first saw it, since in a 27 cm. feet, (mine) last overlength would be 2,45 cm. (1/11th), which at the moment seemed to be a lot for me. But for the last last I made (for me), I followed this rule, and results were quite pleasingin, both in design and fitting.